Why are so many of gaia's lolita items so... "ita" looking?

[Valiska Pines]

Steeple

Aradia Dracaena

With very few exceptions, you DO have to wear a petticoat. That's really not optional unless you're wearing a very loose babydoll dress. Some people insist that you should wear one even then, but I think that's kind of silly.

Bloomers are not necessary if you don't plan to bend over or sit on the floor, but they are frequently advisable because if a gust of wind hits you in that big floofy skirt with a petticoat under it, you're going to be flashing the world. smile

As for the narrow sizes thing...I alter a lot of dresses to fit me, but even though I'm a size 16 in US clothes, there's a few pieces of brand I own that fit right off the rack, like AP's Victorian Letter tiered jumperskirt, and the two BTSSB Shirring Princess dresses I own (one's a floral/fruit print and the other's brown plaid).

I guess if u want a cupcake style skirt but otherwise my hips and thighs are big enough not to warrant a petticoat. emotion_awesome seriously though, its not that i object to any one rule, its the idea that they're ironclad that bothers me. So while i can understand optimal coords (having a petticoat for instance, or the right shoes or socks or hair), saying its Mandatory bugs me a lot for many reasons.

That's what shorts are for! I mean, im not opposed to bloomers on principle, i just think its silly to insist on something as Necessary if it's not intended to be visible. Well, and personally i dislike bloomers because one time when I wore a pair it was uncomfortable whether the elastic was above or below the knee so ew. Actually thats something i didnt address as a hindering factor: some aespect of lolita fashion are Sensory Hell. gonk like tulle. shudders

Oooo neat! personally i'd be terrified of trying to alter such an expensive dress, but i imagine experience with sewing would overcome that, haha. But getting back to the point, alterations only go so far, and somehow i doubt my waist would fit any of those dresses, even with altering. I mean unless the dress can be let out, but... those dresses always look like they fit slim or streamlined figures (with medium to long legs), and i feel too curvy and stocky to fit anything. I mean hell, getting regular clothes at the store is hard enough, i can't imagine trying to finagle my way into international + online clothes.

I don't wear bloomers with elastic around the bottom, that would drive me looney too. Mine are like soft cotton shorts with ruffles or eyelet lace around the bottom. I can't stand crinoline, but some of my petticoats are very soft tulle, and the others, well, I wear longer bloomers if I need to use those.

A lot of times, when you are enlarging a brand dress, you use fabric from the waist ties to do it, and sometimes if there are tote bags made you can cut those up for extra fabric. You can also buy fabric in a solid colour that picks up one of the contrasting colours in the print.

A petti is actually ideal if you have a big booty because it spreads the skirts out evenly so that they don't do that thing where they slide down and are longer in the front but slide up in the back and are shorter and show the whole world your behind.

Also, keep in mind that if you really can't stand even the softest netting, you can put a layer of cotton or lining fabric between the tulle and you.

[Star]

Why is it called a "coord" and not an "outift"? Is it just to be fancy?

Anyways I read through this thread. I know nothing about lolita in great detail outside of looking at photos and reading a bit about it now and then. But, I think the items you guys are referring to which are tagged as lolita when they are "not" lolita are tagged that way because they either have lolita-esque influence, or because different poses within the item could work for lolita styles. Gaia isn't a Lolita Fashion website, so getting into the intricacies and semantics of what is and isn't lolita when tagging items isn't going to be important here. Making tags bring up the widest range of related items is. Gaia is made up of all sorts of fashions and all sorts of people, so getting too specific with tags would overly bloat tag lists, and the main purpose of search tags is to keep things simple, quick, and easy to find. Maybe for super lolita-enthusiasts this actually makes things harder, but you have to remember that compared to the general population of Gaia ( which is NOT primarily a lolita fashion website ) you are the minority, the niche, and the site is not made/designed/organized based around lolita culture. Tagging things the way you seem to want them tagged would make those tags less useful for the other 90% ( random large number for the sake of example ) of the population on Gaia. Tagging everything with lace on it as "lolita" isn't necessarily saying that every single item that comes up is "100% a lolita item" - many of the items are probably just similar, related, or could possibly be used for "lolita" purposes., and those items will then be more accessible to people who are non-enthusiasts who just want to have a lolita-esque look. This pretty much applies to all other fashions out there, which in their CORE are very specific in how they look, but can be very easily generalized by a few specific features. ( Goth, steam punk, punk, etc. )


I think most people are spot on when they have brought up how un-welcoming the lolita community can be, and I think I have seen a SLIGHT amount of that having gone on in this thread. Maybe not to an extreme extent, but even just some of the things I've seen discussed here I find offputting to the idea of getting involved with lolita culture. Although I like the style, it is not something I could ever possibly get into for myself. Not only because it doesn't suit my taste and comforts for IRL wear, but because when it comes to lolita fashion the outsider impression I have of the community is not a good one. Of course I know not everyone who is into lolita is judgy and negative, but I have seen enough of it in forum discussions happening ( to varying degrees ) that I've settled that that type of community is just not for me. I wouldn't particularly want to be a part of ANY fashion culture, though. I dress how I like and if other people have a problem with it or think its unfashionable or a faux pas or whatever, I just have zero shits to give.

Sorry if this is rambly or doesn't make a ton of sense I just woke up and started reading this.

[Steeple]

Aradia Dracaena

I don't wear bloomers with elastic around the bottom, that would drive me looney too. Mine are like soft cotton shorts with ruffles or eyelet lace around the bottom. I can't stand crinoline, but some of my petticoats are very soft tulle, and the others, well, I wear longer bloomers if I need to use those.

A lot of times, when you are enlarging a brand dress, you use fabric from the waist ties to do it, and sometimes if there are tote bags made you can cut those up for extra fabric. You can also buy fabric in a solid colour that picks up one of the contrasting colours in the print.

A petti is actually ideal if you have a big booty because it spreads the skirts out evenly so that they don't do that thing where they slide down and are longer in the front but slide up in the back and are shorter and show the whole world your behind.

Also, keep in mind that if you really can't stand even the softest netting, you can put a layer of cotton or lining fabric between the tulle and you.

ahh that makes more sense. guess it's just a case of like. same name but diff thing? bloomers as fancy shorts sounds nice, esp for those w the ol chubrub.

well my butt isnt that big, i just have wide hips, but still, good to know! i really appreciate you going over all this, because surprise explaining why the rules are there is much more nice and helpful than just saying Those Are The Rules.
srsly tho im making notes here bc no one ever explained this for me so now i actually know more about what i could be doing. thank u friend 3nodding

[ST4CY]

Aradia Dracaena

ST4CY

Gaia was originally an anime site so meh.

My complaint is the skinny body mods and awkward legs. There are no excuses for it. Changeling babies that are trolls with bulbous noses and anything you find searching for "chubby" are basically body shaming and...I'm going to stop complaining now.

sorry, I like the skinny legs (but not the peepee dance ones) because I think the base chibi feet look like flippers. To each their own. If you don't want to use the legmods, don't use them...

They do look like flippers...there are good normal feet/leg mods. They're just rare. Most look deformed or unusable. sweatdrop

[Shanderaa]

Aradia Dracaena

My #1 frustration is the complete inability to layer sleeveless dresses (jumperskirts) over blouses and under jackets.

Oooh! I know one that does! Band of Bremen. It's on the vest layer, so jackets go over it and dresses/shirts go under. Only downside is if you wanted to put on a vest too, most of them won't work with it. (Not sure if vests even go with lolita though, so... it may not even be that much of an issue? I have like zero irl fashion sense. u_u; )

[Jayce Reinhardt]

Aradia Dracaena

Jayce Reinhardt

The main complaint I have with it? (besides the spamming us with so much of it?)


MY AVI'S WAIST IS NOT RIGHT UNDERNEATH HER BEWBS!!!!!!!!!

The waist complaint is legit but I haven't seen too many items on Gaia that are ACTUALLY lolita, as opposed to simply being frilly.

Maid/servant/cafe girl = NOT lolita.

Visible lingerie = NOT lolita.

Visible cleavage = NOT lolita.

Bare shoulders = NOT lolita.

Mori girl (lots of lace, but asymmetric layering, semi-shapeless, woodsy motifs) = NOT lolita.

I've been following lolita style since 1999 and I've been wearing lolita and going to meetups since 2011 (and before that I occasionally wore lolita inspired outfits to parties) and there's an awful lot of stuff tagged "lolita" on Gaia that isn't even ita-lolita. It is frustrating, to someone who actually IS a lolita.

You can use pieces from some of the maid/cafe items in a lolita coordinate, but once you've crossed the line into "obvious servant" territory you've gone too far. I use Keiko's X and Cafe X items a lot with the little Lucie items when I want to do lolita. The Sweet Lace and Porcelina items are lolita, the G-LOL stuff is actually pretty borderline (the long dresses aren't lolita--there are longer dresses in lolita these days but they don't look like that).

Lately I have been really impressed with the Glacia series, Diamonds and Ice series and X Diamond series. I like the Flatline Love series too.

But there's a lot of stuff that gets tagged lolita just because it's "girly"--No Trouble isn't lolita, though you can use some of the pieces in a lolita look. The Memento series is more mori than lolita. And so on...

The Tagging system is a mess, you have that right.But so many NEW outfits end up looking like this below and It like "Don't you have any other style to work from?" Starting right from under the breast and flaring outward all poofy and lacy. STAHP!



Hope you don't mind I use this post to answer both your quotes.

Aradia Dracaena

That green dress really does not cut it.

My-lolita-dress is a taobao reseller. Some of their items are replicas (which are illegal in the USA btw--never buy anything from "Dream of Lolita" as it's fake) and some of their items are pretty bad. On the other hand they also have some very nice pieces by Classical Puppets or Dear Celine or HMHM or Infanta. But in general be wary of "cheap" sites.

Milanoo is notorious for selling cheap costumes and worse as "lolita" to unsuspecting newbies.

http://www.my-lolita-dress.com/

I googled Lolita and found the link above. I was more concentrating on trying to find one that you could see the waist close up instead of the right underneath the breast thing. I'm not into the Lolita scene, However Gaia is making me hate it by using the same pattern it seems over and over and over and over again.

Just like I am sure they make people hate steampunk by only using browns while making steampunk clothing.

[Knight of Britannia]

Jayce Reinhardt

Aradia Dracaena

Jayce Reinhardt

The main complaint I have with it? (besides the spamming us with so much of it?)


MY AVI'S WAIST IS NOT RIGHT UNDERNEATH HER BEWBS!!!!!!!!!

The waist complaint is legit but I haven't seen too many items on Gaia that are ACTUALLY lolita, as opposed to simply being frilly.

Maid/servant/cafe girl = NOT lolita.

Visible lingerie = NOT lolita.

Visible cleavage = NOT lolita.

Bare shoulders = NOT lolita.

Mori girl (lots of lace, but asymmetric layering, semi-shapeless, woodsy motifs) = NOT lolita.

I've been following lolita style since 1999 and I've been wearing lolita and going to meetups since 2011 (and before that I occasionally wore lolita inspired outfits to parties) and there's an awful lot of stuff tagged "lolita" on Gaia that isn't even ita-lolita. It is frustrating, to someone who actually IS a lolita.

You can use pieces from some of the maid/cafe items in a lolita coordinate, but once you've crossed the line into "obvious servant" territory you've gone too far. I use Keiko's X and Cafe X items a lot with the little Lucie items when I want to do lolita. The Sweet Lace and Porcelina items are lolita, the G-LOL stuff is actually pretty borderline (the long dresses aren't lolita--there are longer dresses in lolita these days but they don't look like that).

Lately I have been really impressed with the Glacia series, Diamonds and Ice series and X Diamond series. I like the Flatline Love series too.

But there's a lot of stuff that gets tagged lolita just because it's "girly"--No Trouble isn't lolita, though you can use some of the pieces in a lolita look. The Memento series is more mori than lolita. And so on...

The Tagging system is a mess, you have that right.But so many NEW outfits end up looking like this below and It like "Don't you have any other style to work from?" Starting right from under the breast and flaring outward all poofy and lacy. STAHP!



Hope you don't mind I use this post to answer both your quotes.

Aradia Dracaena

That green dress really does not cut it.

My-lolita-dress is a taobao reseller. Some of their items are replicas (which are illegal in the USA btw--never buy anything from "Dream of Lolita" as it's fake) and some of their items are pretty bad. On the other hand they also have some very nice pieces by Classical Puppets or Dear Celine or HMHM or Infanta. But in general be wary of "cheap" sites.

Milanoo is notorious for selling cheap costumes and worse as "lolita" to unsuspecting newbies.

http://www.my-lolita-dress.com/

I googled Lolita and found the link above. I was more concentrating on trying to find one that you could see the waist close up instead of the right underneath the breast thing. I'm not into the Lolita scene, However Gaia is making me hate it by using the same pattern it seems over and over and over and over again.

Just like I am sure they make people hate steampunk by only using browns while making steampunk clothing.

It's supposed to be old timey but ALSO modern, and everything had a brown/yellowed filter over it in the past, of course! emotion_awesome

[Jayce Reinhardt]

Knight of Britannia

It's supposed to be old timey but ALSO modern, and everything had a brown/yellowed filter over it in the past, of course! emotion_awesome

*Does the mature thing and proceeds to make faces at you behind your back*

[Knight of Britannia]

Jayce Reinhardt

Knight of Britannia

It's supposed to be old timey but ALSO modern, and everything had a brown/yellowed filter over it in the past, of course! emotion_awesome

*Does the mature thing and proceeds to make faces at you behind your back*

rofl I'M SORRY

i cried a little (also you reminded me that I'm supposed to be getting through the rest of Supernatural emotion_kirakira )

[Valiska Pines]

Steeple

Aradia Dracaena

I don't wear bloomers with elastic around the bottom, that would drive me looney too. Mine are like soft cotton shorts with ruffles or eyelet lace around the bottom. I can't stand crinoline, but some of my petticoats are very soft tulle, and the others, well, I wear longer bloomers if I need to use those.

A lot of times, when you are enlarging a brand dress, you use fabric from the waist ties to do it, and sometimes if there are tote bags made you can cut those up for extra fabric. You can also buy fabric in a solid colour that picks up one of the contrasting colours in the print.

A petti is actually ideal if you have a big booty because it spreads the skirts out evenly so that they don't do that thing where they slide down and are longer in the front but slide up in the back and are shorter and show the whole world your behind.

Also, keep in mind that if you really can't stand even the softest netting, you can put a layer of cotton or lining fabric between the tulle and you.

ahh that makes more sense. guess it's just a case of like. same name but diff thing? bloomers as fancy shorts sounds nice, esp for those w the ol chubrub.

well my butt isnt that big, i just have wide hips, but still, good to know! i really appreciate you going over all this, because surprise explaining why the rules are there is much more nice and helpful than just saying Those Are The Rules.
srsly tho im making notes here bc no one ever explained this for me so now i actually know more about what i could be doing. thank u friend 3nodding

Thank you! I hate lolita rules-lawyering too, people are just so mean sometimes! feel free to add me. smile

[Valiska Pines]

Shanderaa

Aradia Dracaena

My #1 frustration is the complete inability to layer sleeveless dresses (jumperskirts) over blouses and under jackets.

Oooh! I know one that does! Band of Bremen. It's on the vest layer, so jackets go over it and dresses/shirts go under. Only downside is if you wanted to put on a vest too, most of them won't work with it. (Not sure if vests even go with lolita though, so... it may not even be that much of an issue? I have like zero irl fashion sense. u_u; )

Oh cool, I should get that! Vests are more commonly worn with ouji (boystyle) but you do see them in military and pirate lolita styles.

Also, LOL at Dainty Porridge being either lolita or steampunk. It looks like a babydoll nighty. You could maybe wear it as himegyaru (princess gal) but it's not lolita.

[Valiska Pines]

Jayce Reinhardt

Aradia Dracaena

Jayce Reinhardt

The main complaint I have with it? (besides the spamming us with so much of it?)


MY AVI'S WAIST IS NOT RIGHT UNDERNEATH HER BEWBS!!!!!!!!!

The waist complaint is legit but I haven't seen too many items on Gaia that are ACTUALLY lolita, as opposed to simply being frilly.

Maid/servant/cafe girl = NOT lolita.

Visible lingerie = NOT lolita.

Visible cleavage = NOT lolita.

Bare shoulders = NOT lolita.

Mori girl (lots of lace, but asymmetric layering, semi-shapeless, woodsy motifs) = NOT lolita.

I've been following lolita style since 1999 and I've been wearing lolita and going to meetups since 2011 (and before that I occasionally wore lolita inspired outfits to parties) and there's an awful lot of stuff tagged "lolita" on Gaia that isn't even ita-lolita. It is frustrating, to someone who actually IS a lolita.

You can use pieces from some of the maid/cafe items in a lolita coordinate, but once you've crossed the line into "obvious servant" territory you've gone too far. I use Keiko's X and Cafe X items a lot with the little Lucie items when I want to do lolita. The Sweet Lace and Porcelina items are lolita, the G-LOL stuff is actually pretty borderline (the long dresses aren't lolita--there are longer dresses in lolita these days but they don't look like that).

Lately I have been really impressed with the Glacia series, Diamonds and Ice series and X Diamond series. I like the Flatline Love series too.

But there's a lot of stuff that gets tagged lolita just because it's "girly"--No Trouble isn't lolita, though you can use some of the pieces in a lolita look. The Memento series is more mori than lolita. And so on...

The Tagging system is a mess, you have that right.But so many NEW outfits end up looking like this below and It like "Don't you have any other style to work from?" Starting right from under the breast and flaring outward all poofy and lacy. STAHP!



Hope you don't mind I use this post to answer both your quotes.

Aradia Dracaena

That green dress really does not cut it.

My-lolita-dress is a taobao reseller. Some of their items are replicas (which are illegal in the USA btw--never buy anything from "Dream of Lolita" as it's fake) and some of their items are pretty bad. On the other hand they also have some very nice pieces by Classical Puppets or Dear Celine or HMHM or Infanta. But in general be wary of "cheap" sites.

Milanoo is notorious for selling cheap costumes and worse as "lolita" to unsuspecting newbies.

http://www.my-lolita-dress.com/

I googled Lolita and found the link above. I was more concentrating on trying to find one that you could see the waist close up instead of the right underneath the breast thing. I'm not into the Lolita scene, However Gaia is making me hate it by using the same pattern it seems over and over and over and over again.

Just like I am sure they make people hate steampunk by only using browns while making steampunk clothing.

Gotcha! And yeah I love steampunk too! I would be so fussed if I didn't actually like brown coordinates.

My Lolita Dress has some very nice things and some very iffy things because they're a taobao reseller and Taobao is like Chinese eBay,which means it's got fakes, knockoffs, nice original shops, and complete junk on it. You can get some really nice things there--but anyone who's new should probably shop carefully or talk to someone who's been doing this a while.

[Valiska Pines]

Miyoko Azuhara

I think there's a good amount of items that is lolita enough. There are just a lot of limitations because of the base. I'm glad that there's a lot of mori girl too. Very few (or none) of these exist back in '08 when I joined. I think Keiko's cake and Runcible spoon paved the way. If it's not much trouble, I think it would be good for OP to link items that is considerably "ita" to serve as example. It might be helpful to artists too.

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

[Jayce Reinhardt]

Aradia Dracaena

Gotcha! And yeah I love steampunk too! I would be so fussed if I didn't actually like brown coordinates.

My Lolita Dress has some very nice things and some very iffy things because they're a taobao reseller and Taobao is like Chinese eBay,which means it's got fakes, knockoffs, nice original shops, and complete junk on it. You can get some really nice things there--but anyone who's new should probably shop carefully or talk to someone who's been doing this a while.

Huh, I learned something today.

Again, I'm more into steampunk so thank you for going easy on the lolita noob. whee

[Star]

Aradia Dracaena

Miyoko Azuhara

I think there's a good amount of items that is lolita enough. There are just a lot of limitations because of the base. I'm glad that there's a lot of mori girl too. Very few (or none) of these exist back in '08 when I joined. I think Keiko's cake and Runcible spoon paved the way. If it's not much trouble, I think it would be good for OP to link items that is considerably "ita" to serve as example. It might be helpful to artists too.

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

I don't think 'mori' is accessible of a tag as 'lolita' is. Like I said in my earlier post, tagging is meant to make things quick and accessible to a wide range of people, and at some point it just doesn't do that job when you start getting down to the finer separations between one thing and another. A lot of people, myself included, probably don't even know what mori is, and would never think to look for it when looking for a certain style of item. They could ADD the tag 'mori', but accessibility to users who are not closely following the differences in fashion trends would be lost if the wider-known tag of 'lolita' was left out. It seems more like they have chosen 'lolita' as their blanket cover-all tag for styles which are similar or related to whatever actual lolita style is. And sure, enthusiasts could point out all of the ways in which they are NOT similar, but that's what makes you an enthusiast compared to the everyone else. Since the majority of gaia users are probably not enthusiasts, there needs to be a blanket term that MOST people PROBABLY know as a starting point in search, otherwise no one would ever find what they are looking for. Of course it is nice when people educate themselves, but that isn't the purpose of tagging systems, they usually need to work with what people in general already know, in order to aid that general knowledge in searches.