Why are so many of gaia's lolita items so... "ita" looking?

[Jayce Reinhardt]

Cosmic Glitter

Aradia Dracaena

Miyoko Azuhara

I think there's a good amount of items that is lolita enough. There are just a lot of limitations because of the base. I'm glad that there's a lot of mori girl too. Very few (or none) of these exist back in '08 when I joined. I think Keiko's cake and Runcible spoon paved the way. If it's not much trouble, I think it would be good for OP to link items that is considerably "ita" to serve as example. It might be helpful to artists too.

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

I don't think 'mori' is accessible of a tag as 'lolita' is. Like I said in my earlier post, tagging is meant to make things quick and accessible to a wide range of people, and at some point it just doesn't do that job when you start getting down to the finer separations between one thing and another. A lot of people, myself included, probably don't even know what mori is, and would never think to look for it when looking for a certain style of item. They could ADD the tag 'mori', but accessibility to users who are not closely following the differences in fashion trends would be lost if the wider-known tag of 'lolita' was left out. It seems more like they have chosen 'lolita' as their blanket cover-all tag for styles which are similar or related to whatever actual lolita style is. And sure, enthusiasts could point out all of the ways in which they are NOT similar, but that's what makes you an enthusiast compared to the everyone else. Since the majority of gaia users are probably not enthusiasts, there needs to be a blanket term that MOST people PROBABLY know as a starting point in search, otherwise no one would ever find what they are looking for. Of course it is nice when people educate themselves, but that isn't the purpose of tagging systems, they usually need to work with what people in general already know, in order to aid that general knowledge in searches.

How did we learn a Zebra was a Zebra and not a Horse? someone told us in school.

I don't think I would have told my teacher it was easier for me to call it a Horse because that's what i was used to. [/train of thought]

(I apologize in advance if someone is offended at my frankness, it's just how I am)

[Lucidly]

I think the explanation is incredibly simple.

Not all frilly, lacy items are lolita. But some of those frilly, lacy items can work well with lolita. Therefore, they are tagged as lolita, even if they aren't actually lolita.

[Star]

Jayce Reinhardt

Cosmic Glitter

Aradia Dracaena

Miyoko Azuhara

I think there's a good amount of items that is lolita enough. There are just a lot of limitations because of the base. I'm glad that there's a lot of mori girl too. Very few (or none) of these exist back in '08 when I joined. I think Keiko's cake and Runcible spoon paved the way. If it's not much trouble, I think it would be good for OP to link items that is considerably "ita" to serve as example. It might be helpful to artists too.

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

I don't think 'mori' is accessible of a tag as 'lolita' is. Like I said in my earlier post, tagging is meant to make things quick and accessible to a wide range of people, and at some point it just doesn't do that job when you start getting down to the finer separations between one thing and another. A lot of people, myself included, probably don't even know what mori is, and would never think to look for it when looking for a certain style of item. They could ADD the tag 'mori', but accessibility to users who are not closely following the differences in fashion trends would be lost if the wider-known tag of 'lolita' was left out. It seems more like they have chosen 'lolita' as their blanket cover-all tag for styles which are similar or related to whatever actual lolita style is. And sure, enthusiasts could point out all of the ways in which they are NOT similar, but that's what makes you an enthusiast compared to the everyone else. Since the majority of gaia users are probably not enthusiasts, there needs to be a blanket term that MOST people PROBABLY know as a starting point in search, otherwise no one would ever find what they are looking for. Of course it is nice when people educate themselves, but that isn't the purpose of tagging systems, they usually need to work with what people in general already know, in order to aid that general knowledge in searches.

How did we learn a Zebra was a Zebra and not a Horse? someone told us in school.

I don't think I would have told my teacher it was easier for me to call it a Horse because that's what i was used to. [/train of thought]

(I apologize in advance if someone is offended at my frankness, it's just how I am)

Like I said, of course it is nice when people educate themselves, but that is not the purpose of a tagging system. Tagging systems serve people better when they worth WITH what people already know, and not against it. If they dropped the lolita tag from a lot of items in favor of more specific branches of lolita-ESQUE fashion, people would be less likely to find them, unless they already have an invested interest in the style, and the tagging system would not be serving its purpose.

Its like when you search for music, techno for example. A LOT of things will often come up under a search for Techno music, but I personally know that they are house, happy hard core, dubstep, trance, IDM, trance-house, drum and bass, ambient, inustrial ambient, hardsylr, jumpstyle, glitch, jungle, the list goes on and on for ways which techno music can be divided into even more specific sub-genres. BUT, for the sake of a starting point in a search, in order for the most people to be able to find such music when they want to, 'techno' is a pretty reasonable blanket term to lead people into the rest of the genres. I think it is the same with the use of "lolita" on Gaia. It serves the most people, and as such might even catch people who don't already know a lot about lolita fashion, and potentially lead them to further interest in the style, which is where they will go on to learn the difference between their zebras and horses.

[Valiska Pines]

Cosmic Glitter

Why is it called a "coord" and not an "outift"? Is it just to be fancy?

Anyways I read through this thread. I know nothing about lolita in great detail outside of looking at photos and reading a bit about it now and then. But, I think the items you guys are referring to which are tagged as lolita when they are "not" lolita are tagged that way because they either have lolita-esque influence, or because different poses within the item could work for lolita styles. Gaia isn't a Lolita Fashion website, so getting into the intricacies and semantics of what is and isn't lolita when tagging items isn't going to be important here. Making tags bring up the widest range of related items is. Gaia is made up of all sorts of fashions and all sorts of people, so getting too specific with tags would overly bloat tag lists, and the main purpose of search tags is to keep things simple, quick, and easy to find. Maybe for super lolita-enthusiasts this actually makes things harder, but you have to remember that compared to the general population of Gaia ( which is NOT primarily a lolita fashion website ) you are the minority, the niche, and the site is not made/designed/organized based around lolita culture. Tagging things the way you seem to want them tagged would make those tags less useful for the other 90% ( random large number for the sake of example ) of the population on Gaia. Tagging everything with lace on it as "lolita" isn't necessarily saying that every single item that comes up is "100% a lolita item" - many of the items are probably just similar, related, or could possibly be used for "lolita" purposes., and those items will then be more accessible to people who are non-enthusiasts who just want to have a lolita-esque look. This pretty much applies to all other fashions out there, which in their CORE are very specific in how they look, but can be very easily generalized by a few specific features. ( Goth, steam punk, punk, etc. )


I think most people are spot on when they have brought up how un-welcoming the lolita community can be, and I think I have seen a SLIGHT amount of that having gone on in this thread. Maybe not to an extreme extent, but even just some of the things I've seen discussed here I find offputting to the idea of getting involved with lolita culture. Although I like the style, it is not something I could ever possibly get into for myself. Not only because it doesn't suit my taste and comforts for IRL wear, but because when it comes to lolita fashion the outsider impression I have of the community is not a good one. Of course I know not everyone who is into lolita is judgy and negative, but I have seen enough of it in forum discussions happening ( to varying degrees ) that I've settled that that type of community is just not for me. I wouldn't particularly want to be a part of ANY fashion culture, though. I dress how I like and if other people have a problem with it or think its unfashionable or a faux pas or whatever, I just have zero shits to give.

Sorry if this is rambly or doesn't make a ton of sense I just woke up and started reading this.

The term "coord" is from Japan. Japanese people love to borrow and then mangle words from foreign languages, just like English speakers. It's short for "coordinate". An outfit can be whatever a person puts on. A coordinate is an outfit that has been planned to bring out the good points of the person wearing it and the items they're wearing by matching, harmonising or contrasting shapes, colours and textures.

Like any group of people, the lolita world has nasty people and sites where they go to be spiteful, but I really do believe that they're a minority. Anything negative gets magnified online. But this is a discussion among lolitas about how annoying the misuse of the tag is, so non-lolitas jumping in to defend it, or the WHAT ABOUT DA MENZ crowd jumping in to complain about their lack of mecha are being kind of obnoxious; I respond to new or aspiring lolitas who want to know the reasons behind the "rules" very differently.

The tag matters because lolita fashion (unfortunately, efforts to change the name of the style both here and in Japan have failed) suffers from being sexualised through confusion with not only that book but also a particularly gross genre of underage anime porn in which some characters do wear frilly clothes that are not lolita fashion. When "sexy" outfits are tagged "lolita" it contributes to this very obnoxious problem. When guys on MRA sites stop advising each other to hit on lolitas at cons because they think we're all "sluts with daddy issues" I will probably care a lot less about tags.

[Rhosynne]

Aradia Dracaena

taphies

Well, first off it's a doll website. Secondly, it's a fantastical doll website with rather small looking dolls, so the laws of what looks good on a human body cannot follow. Lace can't be made to look like lace unless you really, really play it up and make it large. Patterns are difficult to pixel.

And generic designs allow functionality and a greater chance for a broader population to like them. Like, yeah, I'd like for there to be more fitted and patterned lolita dresses. Particularly something like this:



But it takes a long time to pixel that rose pattern appropriately. That's a s**t ton of work on a staff that's already incredibly busy.

Aesthetics also come into play. The artist themselves may prefer the look of a certain item. While a few of our artists are experts in creating beautiful lolita items (PRISM, the person who made Diamonds and Ice), you have to realize they do also play to their preferences somewhat when asked to make certain things.

Because PRlSM pretty much deviated from Keiko's Cake to her more recent lolita item in Shortcake Surprise. Many of her items are now featuring that sort of triangle shape. Crystal Millennium is another one. She just likes those kinds of dresses and has become rather fond of the minimal look. I wish she'd go back to Keiko's Cake pattern era though myself. Some of her things were cute and fantastic for fairy kei.

ANYWAY.

FASHION.

I actually really love those deviations because what that means is that there's items that coordinate without being from the same set. IDK if PRISM did Cafe Miam etc, but I've noticed that Keiko's (X) and Cafe (X) and now Shortcake Surprise come in a bunch of colourways that work really well together. For instance, Keiko's Trifle, Cafe Clementine, and Tangy Shortcake surprise work well together. Keiko's Cake, Cafe Bubblegum, and Shortcake Surprise look great together.

It's kind of like how Angelic Pretty does a strawberry dress every summer. I've got Freshly-Picked Strawberries and I love it but I use accessories from Berry Garden and other releases with it and it looks great.

Cafe Miam is actually by milkbun, pretty sure. Totally different pixel styles. Shortcake Surprise, Keiko's Cake, Runcible Spoon, Rosamund items are all from PRlSM.

[Star]

Aradia Dracaena

Cosmic Glitter

Why is it called a "coord" and not an "outift"? Is it just to be fancy?

Anyways I read through this thread. I know nothing about lolita in great detail outside of looking at photos and reading a bit about it now and then. But, I think the items you guys are referring to which are tagged as lolita when they are "not" lolita are tagged that way because they either have lolita-esque influence, or because different poses within the item could work for lolita styles. Gaia isn't a Lolita Fashion website, so getting into the intricacies and semantics of what is and isn't lolita when tagging items isn't going to be important here. Making tags bring up the widest range of related items is. Gaia is made up of all sorts of fashions and all sorts of people, so getting too specific with tags would overly bloat tag lists, and the main purpose of search tags is to keep things simple, quick, and easy to find. Maybe for super lolita-enthusiasts this actually makes things harder, but you have to remember that compared to the general population of Gaia ( which is NOT primarily a lolita fashion website ) you are the minority, the niche, and the site is not made/designed/organized based around lolita culture. Tagging things the way you seem to want them tagged would make those tags less useful for the other 90% ( random large number for the sake of example ) of the population on Gaia. Tagging everything with lace on it as "lolita" isn't necessarily saying that every single item that comes up is "100% a lolita item" - many of the items are probably just similar, related, or could possibly be used for "lolita" purposes., and those items will then be more accessible to people who are non-enthusiasts who just want to have a lolita-esque look. This pretty much applies to all other fashions out there, which in their CORE are very specific in how they look, but can be very easily generalized by a few specific features. ( Goth, steam punk, punk, etc. )


I think most people are spot on when they have brought up how un-welcoming the lolita community can be, and I think I have seen a SLIGHT amount of that having gone on in this thread. Maybe not to an extreme extent, but even just some of the things I've seen discussed here I find offputting to the idea of getting involved with lolita culture. Although I like the style, it is not something I could ever possibly get into for myself. Not only because it doesn't suit my taste and comforts for IRL wear, but because when it comes to lolita fashion the outsider impression I have of the community is not a good one. Of course I know not everyone who is into lolita is judgy and negative, but I have seen enough of it in forum discussions happening ( to varying degrees ) that I've settled that that type of community is just not for me. I wouldn't particularly want to be a part of ANY fashion culture, though. I dress how I like and if other people have a problem with it or think its unfashionable or a faux pas or whatever, I just have zero shits to give.

Sorry if this is rambly or doesn't make a ton of sense I just woke up and started reading this.

The term "coord" is from Japan. Japanese people love to borrow and then mangle words from foreign languages, just like English speakers. It's short for "coordinate". An outfit can be whatever a person puts on. A coordinate is an outfit that has been planned to bring out the good points of the person wearing it and the items they're wearing by matching, harmonising or contrasting shapes, colours and textures.

Like any group of people, the lolita world has nasty people and sites where they go to be spiteful, but I really do believe that they're a minority. Anything negative gets magnified online. But this is a discussion among lolitas about how annoying the misuse of the tag is, so non-lolitas jumping in to defend it, or the WHAT ABOUT DA MENZ crowd jumping in to complain about their lack of mecha are being kind of obnoxious; I respond to new or aspiring lolitas who want to know the reasons behind the "rules" very differently.

The tag matters because lolita fashion (unfortunately, efforts to change the name of the style both here and in Japan have failed) suffers from being sexualised through confusion with not only that book but also a particularly gross genre of underage anime porn in which some characters do wear frilly clothes that are not lolita fashion. When "sexy" outfits are tagged "lolita" it contributes to this very obnoxious problem. When guys on MRA sites stop advising each other to hit on lolitas at cons because they think we're all "sluts with daddy issues" I will probably care a lot less about tags.

Thanks, I've never heard the term used that way before, but I am assuming it is probably more popular within the lolita community to say coord instead of just outfit?

I did some curious reading once on the origin of the word lolita for the fashion style specifically, how it came to be used and why, and whether it should be or not. I didn't really find much conclusive about it, though, except that it is a common topic of debate among the community? At this point it seems like it is too ingrained in the culture to be dropped, even if a more appropriate term is out there somewhere. Which is kind of sad, since as a word itself I don't think it really fits the fashion style as much as it fits loli-porn. ( Considering the loli-porn anime stuff is more similar to the book where the name's popularity originated from. ) So, I'm not entirely sure why people want to cling to it so hard? Do you know anything about the attachment to it? Its strange that some people would see lolita-dressed girls and think they are sluts with daddy issues though, since nothing about the fashion style is really sexual in any kind of way. Isn't is kind of purposefully a movement AGAINST sexualization and adulthood?

[Rhosynne]

Cosmic Glitter

Aradia Dracaena

Cosmic Glitter

Why is it called a "coord" and not an "outift"? Is it just to be fancy?

Anyways I read through this thread. I know nothing about lolita in great detail outside of looking at photos and reading a bit about it now and then. But, I think the items you guys are referring to which are tagged as lolita when they are "not" lolita are tagged that way because they either have lolita-esque influence, or because different poses within the item could work for lolita styles. Gaia isn't a Lolita Fashion website, so getting into the intricacies and semantics of what is and isn't lolita when tagging items isn't going to be important here. Making tags bring up the widest range of related items is. Gaia is made up of all sorts of fashions and all sorts of people, so getting too specific with tags would overly bloat tag lists, and the main purpose of search tags is to keep things simple, quick, and easy to find. Maybe for super lolita-enthusiasts this actually makes things harder, but you have to remember that compared to the general population of Gaia ( which is NOT primarily a lolita fashion website ) you are the minority, the niche, and the site is not made/designed/organized based around lolita culture. Tagging things the way you seem to want them tagged would make those tags less useful for the other 90% ( random large number for the sake of example ) of the population on Gaia. Tagging everything with lace on it as "lolita" isn't necessarily saying that every single item that comes up is "100% a lolita item" - many of the items are probably just similar, related, or could possibly be used for "lolita" purposes., and those items will then be more accessible to people who are non-enthusiasts who just want to have a lolita-esque look. This pretty much applies to all other fashions out there, which in their CORE are very specific in how they look, but can be very easily generalized by a few specific features. ( Goth, steam punk, punk, etc. )


I think most people are spot on when they have brought up how un-welcoming the lolita community can be, and I think I have seen a SLIGHT amount of that having gone on in this thread. Maybe not to an extreme extent, but even just some of the things I've seen discussed here I find offputting to the idea of getting involved with lolita culture. Although I like the style, it is not something I could ever possibly get into for myself. Not only because it doesn't suit my taste and comforts for IRL wear, but because when it comes to lolita fashion the outsider impression I have of the community is not a good one. Of course I know not everyone who is into lolita is judgy and negative, but I have seen enough of it in forum discussions happening ( to varying degrees ) that I've settled that that type of community is just not for me. I wouldn't particularly want to be a part of ANY fashion culture, though. I dress how I like and if other people have a problem with it or think its unfashionable or a faux pas or whatever, I just have zero shits to give.

Sorry if this is rambly or doesn't make a ton of sense I just woke up and started reading this.

The term "coord" is from Japan. Japanese people love to borrow and then mangle words from foreign languages, just like English speakers. It's short for "coordinate". An outfit can be whatever a person puts on. A coordinate is an outfit that has been planned to bring out the good points of the person wearing it and the items they're wearing by matching, harmonising or contrasting shapes, colours and textures.

Like any group of people, the lolita world has nasty people and sites where they go to be spiteful, but I really do believe that they're a minority. Anything negative gets magnified online. But this is a discussion among lolitas about how annoying the misuse of the tag is, so non-lolitas jumping in to defend it, or the WHAT ABOUT DA MENZ crowd jumping in to complain about their lack of mecha are being kind of obnoxious; I respond to new or aspiring lolitas who want to know the reasons behind the "rules" very differently.

The tag matters because lolita fashion (unfortunately, efforts to change the name of the style both here and in Japan have failed) suffers from being sexualised through confusion with not only that book but also a particularly gross genre of underage anime porn in which some characters do wear frilly clothes that are not lolita fashion. When "sexy" outfits are tagged "lolita" it contributes to this very obnoxious problem. When guys on MRA sites stop advising each other to hit on lolitas at cons because they think we're all "sluts with daddy issues" I will probably care a lot less about tags.

Thanks, I've never heard the term used that way before, but I am assuming it is probably more popular within the lolita community to say coord instead of just outfit?

I did some curious reading once on the origin of the word lolita for the fashion style specifically, how it came to be used and why, and whether it should be or not. I didn't really find much conclusive about it, though, except that it is a common topic of debate among the community? At this point it seems like it is too ingrained in the culture to be dropped, even if a more appropriate term is out there somewhere. Which is kind of sad, since as a word itself I don't think it really fits the fashion style as much as it fits loli-porn. ( Considering the loli-porn anime stuff is more similar to the book where the name's popularity originated from. ) So, I'm not entirely sure why people want to cling to it so hard? Do you know anything about the attachment to it? Its strange that some people would see lolita-dressed girls and think they are sluts with daddy issues though, since nothing about the fashion style is really sexual in any kind of way. Isn't is kind of purposefully a movement AGAINST sexualization and adulthood?

Yes, lolita was originally a counterculture started by young women in Japan who were tired of being forced into a very specific type of femininity as they grew older. Kawaii is like this too, and it blossomed among young women for the same reason as lolita, but that's for me to talk about at a later time. It's often why I get frustrated when people force Western feminism on something like this though, because it's a wholly different ballgame there.

Anyway, many men don't like it when women dress up as lolita, which is why it's so sexualized in loli-porn. They're trying to "take back" the female form as their own to sexualize.

As for the word attachment, I don't know. I do know that the book itself is actually criticizing this sort of sexualization of young women, and that might be its origins. But words and meanings and author's intentions are usually muddled with time.

[Star]

taphies

Cosmic Glitter

Aradia Dracaena

Cosmic Glitter

Why is it called a "coord" and not an "outift"? Is it just to be fancy?

Anyways I read through this thread. I know nothing about lolita in great detail outside of looking at photos and reading a bit about it now and then. But, I think the items you guys are referring to which are tagged as lolita when they are "not" lolita are tagged that way because they either have lolita-esque influence, or because different poses within the item could work for lolita styles. Gaia isn't a Lolita Fashion website, so getting into the intricacies and semantics of what is and isn't lolita when tagging items isn't going to be important here. Making tags bring up the widest range of related items is. Gaia is made up of all sorts of fashions and all sorts of people, so getting too specific with tags would overly bloat tag lists, and the main purpose of search tags is to keep things simple, quick, and easy to find. Maybe for super lolita-enthusiasts this actually makes things harder, but you have to remember that compared to the general population of Gaia ( which is NOT primarily a lolita fashion website ) you are the minority, the niche, and the site is not made/designed/organized based around lolita culture. Tagging things the way you seem to want them tagged would make those tags less useful for the other 90% ( random large number for the sake of example ) of the population on Gaia. Tagging everything with lace on it as "lolita" isn't necessarily saying that every single item that comes up is "100% a lolita item" - many of the items are probably just similar, related, or could possibly be used for "lolita" purposes., and those items will then be more accessible to people who are non-enthusiasts who just want to have a lolita-esque look. This pretty much applies to all other fashions out there, which in their CORE are very specific in how they look, but can be very easily generalized by a few specific features. ( Goth, steam punk, punk, etc. )


I think most people are spot on when they have brought up how un-welcoming the lolita community can be, and I think I have seen a SLIGHT amount of that having gone on in this thread. Maybe not to an extreme extent, but even just some of the things I've seen discussed here I find offputting to the idea of getting involved with lolita culture. Although I like the style, it is not something I could ever possibly get into for myself. Not only because it doesn't suit my taste and comforts for IRL wear, but because when it comes to lolita fashion the outsider impression I have of the community is not a good one. Of course I know not everyone who is into lolita is judgy and negative, but I have seen enough of it in forum discussions happening ( to varying degrees ) that I've settled that that type of community is just not for me. I wouldn't particularly want to be a part of ANY fashion culture, though. I dress how I like and if other people have a problem with it or think its unfashionable or a faux pas or whatever, I just have zero shits to give.

Sorry if this is rambly or doesn't make a ton of sense I just woke up and started reading this.

The term "coord" is from Japan. Japanese people love to borrow and then mangle words from foreign languages, just like English speakers. It's short for "coordinate". An outfit can be whatever a person puts on. A coordinate is an outfit that has been planned to bring out the good points of the person wearing it and the items they're wearing by matching, harmonising or contrasting shapes, colours and textures.

Like any group of people, the lolita world has nasty people and sites where they go to be spiteful, but I really do believe that they're a minority. Anything negative gets magnified online. But this is a discussion among lolitas about how annoying the misuse of the tag is, so non-lolitas jumping in to defend it, or the WHAT ABOUT DA MENZ crowd jumping in to complain about their lack of mecha are being kind of obnoxious; I respond to new or aspiring lolitas who want to know the reasons behind the "rules" very differently.

The tag matters because lolita fashion (unfortunately, efforts to change the name of the style both here and in Japan have failed) suffers from being sexualised through confusion with not only that book but also a particularly gross genre of underage anime porn in which some characters do wear frilly clothes that are not lolita fashion. When "sexy" outfits are tagged "lolita" it contributes to this very obnoxious problem. When guys on MRA sites stop advising each other to hit on lolitas at cons because they think we're all "sluts with daddy issues" I will probably care a lot less about tags.

Thanks, I've never heard the term used that way before, but I am assuming it is probably more popular within the lolita community to say coord instead of just outfit?

I did some curious reading once on the origin of the word lolita for the fashion style specifically, how it came to be used and why, and whether it should be or not. I didn't really find much conclusive about it, though, except that it is a common topic of debate among the community? At this point it seems like it is too ingrained in the culture to be dropped, even if a more appropriate term is out there somewhere. Which is kind of sad, since as a word itself I don't think it really fits the fashion style as much as it fits loli-porn. ( Considering the loli-porn anime stuff is more similar to the book where the name's popularity originated from. ) So, I'm not entirely sure why people want to cling to it so hard? Do you know anything about the attachment to it? Its strange that some people would see lolita-dressed girls and think they are sluts with daddy issues though, since nothing about the fashion style is really sexual in any kind of way. Isn't is kind of purposefully a movement AGAINST sexualization and adulthood?

Yes, lolita was originally a counterculture started by young women in Japan who were tired of being forced into a very specific type of femininity as they grew older. Kawaii is like this too, and it blossomed among young women for the same reason as lolita, but that's for me to talk about at a later time. It's often why I get frustrated when people force Western feminism on something like this though, because it's a wholly different ballgame there.

Anyway, many men don't like it when women dress up as lolita, which is why it's so sexualized in loli-porn. They're trying to "take back" the female form as their own to sexualize.

As for the word attachment, I don't know. I do know that the book itself is actually criticizing this sort of sexualization of young women, and that might be its origins. But words and meanings and author's intentions are usually muddled with time.

I've read some about kawaii starting as a counter culture as well, it was really interested. How it had its simplest starts in schoolgirls just starting to add cutesy symbols and doodles to their handwriting. I don't remember the website I was reading about it on, though.

[aj OwO]

Aradia Dracaena

aj OwO

growlithe lv12

Madam Ace

growlithe lv12

hornworts

probably because, like with most things on Gaia, contemporary fashion fads get exaggerated and beaten to death in the form of items

hell we're still getting pastel goth/soft grunge fashions-- s**t that everyone stopped making fun of in 2012. it's no wonder Gaia would misunderstand lolita fashion as well and make it look torrid

this is the t

i keep typing up a longer post and deleting it bc it's mean so i'm gonna keep my mouth shut instead. but uh.. i think having high expectations for contemporary fashion on gaia is kinda missing the point. half the fun is mix & matching kinda shoddy things to make something nicer & that appeals to you.

I think this is more of a lolita problem than a fashion problem because no other sub-style group harps on or criticizes newbies or people "violating the rules" as much as I have seen from lolita fashion communities.

You wanna look punk? Just look rad af and you're good to go.
But heaven forbid one of accessories don't match, you're wearing cheaper white lace with black, your skirt isn't poofy enough to make a bell silhouette, or you're wearing Bodyline to a fancy designer show... you will be absolutely shredded. (Not everybody is like that, I know...but there have been horror stories...)

Which is kind of sad, because yeah fashion has rules...but taste is acquired and a lot of the stuff I seen on how to do lolita is "oh you can't do this but it can be done right if you git gud" vagueness. You gotta let people learn at the own pace.

That...and this is a pixel doll website. Just let folks have their fun.

oh i'm with you. i'm not that familiar w/ lotita fashion but i've seen plenty of community weirdness in passing. It seems like being well dressed is synonymous with these very specific brand names. it's unfortunate but also SO strange, bc in almost every other young fashion conscious community, all label everything is more of a faux pas.

anyways. it's weird. and perpetuated mostly by a bunch of white girls trying sooo hard to be japanese. at the end of the day, you're all at the same anime convention.

you are not entirely correct.
or i have met the "rare" kind lolitas?

i wear bodyline shoes(brand shoes will never fit me) and blouses and off brand blouses, nobody has ever criticized my shoes or blouse. i wore shoes i bought from target to my first meet up because i couldn't afford much less fit into a brand shoe, and there wasn't enough time for anything to ship out. i didn't get called an "ita" or criticized for it either.
there are many lolitas i know that rock bodyline pieces or clothing from smaller brands.
yes, there are those that consider AP, baby, IW, and etc. to be Brand dresses, but i doubt even they would say you HAVE to have one of those brands to be lolita.
common advice i have heard is pad your wardrobe out with bodyline and cheaper brand and even off brand items, get an expensive piece for special occasions.
also you can get good deals on dresses if you know where to shop.

have you ever been to a lolita meet up? not an anime convention.
i have been to a few, and my co-ords still are far from where i would like them to be, but i have gotten nothing but positive responses from my fellow lolitas.
i'm sure there are negative lolitas out there that will overly critique someone who is new to the fashion, but you find those kind of people everywhere you go, not just in lolita.

at an anime convention, a lolita is more likely to be asked what anime they are cosplaying and being told that their costume is nice. while not surprising might contribute to some crankiness. lol

P.S. if you don't like or want to follow the rules of the fashion, wear it anyway, just don't call it lolita. nobody will give any shits at all.


as for gaia lolita, i would love to see more!
there are a few nice things now, but it is a niche fashion, so i don't expect the artists here to want to devote too much time to it.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with wearing Bodyline as long as it's not a replica. I only own one pair of lolita brand shoes and they kill my feet, I usually wear offbrand shoes and blouses and there's nothing wrong with that either.

And you are absolutely right that if you want to wear any crazy lace thing you want and not claim it's supposed to be lolita, nobody will care.

I HAVE got s**t on line from people who have seen me mixing lolita clothes and regular clothes because I'm a lolita so they think I think it's a lolita coord when I'd tell you myself in person that it's not, but they just see pictures and think that's how I'd dress at a meet, wtf.

yeah, i stay away from replicas. i currently own a couple blouses shoes and their "squirrel party" print jsk lol

you would get more s**t from random people then you would from lolitas if you go out wearing your lace monsters! rofl

there is something about the internet that can bring out people's inner a** hole.
though people are people, if they are a** holes, wearing lolita clothing isn't going to change that, but that has nothing to do with the fashion. sweatdrop

[Kelso The Great]

Aradia Dracaena

This brings me to Frustration #3 - generally, basic pumps or flats without an ankle strap or instep strap aren't worn in lolita, but a lot of the lolitable Gaian series like X Diamond, the non-Lady Lucies, and Creme X are plain pumps or ballet flats.

I disagree! While shoes with decorated ankle straps are popularly worn, I have seen many ballet flats, booties, and rocking shoes without them. Here is a neat example! I have even seen some pull off platform creepers.
Really, just a nice clean pair of shoes to match... I prefer something that laces up, has a heel larger than 2 and a half inches, black imitation leather, and closed toe. Mary Janes seem to be the preferred style though.

[Kelso The Great]

I just wanted to show off my most recent Lolita inspired Avatar

It is meant to be over the top, almost baroque inspired... not my typical preferred color palatte, but for pulling it together for a last minute fashion show inspired group entry, I would say it works... But I'll let you pick it apart.
The Dress and Hair Bow are from Dancer on the River,
The hair is Minty Kisses
The bow at the waist is from Dusky Bower,
The legs are Fluttering Moth,
and the ruffled Collar is Rosamund's Redemption.

[oBun]

then what IS lolita?

[Little Antique]

Aradia Dracaena

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

If the parts are broken down some mori items' poses can be used for lolita (like the leg mod from mori's memento). Mori isn't that well known and some consider it a subculture of lolita so maybe that's why gaia just tag it the same.
An item list and guild would be awesome. biggrin There's also a subforum dedicated to lolita fashion.

[Valiska Pines]

Miyoko Azuhara

Aradia Dracaena

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

If the parts are broken down some mori items' poses can be used for lolita (like the leg mod from mori's memento). Mori isn't that well known and some consider it a subculture of lolita so maybe that's why gaia just tag it the same.
An item list and guild would be awesome. biggrin There's also a subforum dedicated to lolita fashion.

I've spent some time on the subforum...

[Little Antique]

Aradia Dracaena

Miyoko Azuhara

Aradia Dracaena

I'm glad there's tons of mori too, a lot of people like mori -- I just wish it was tagged mori, not lolita.

I think one thing that has come out of this thread is that we need a Gaia lolita guild and a Gaia lolita item list smile

If the parts are broken down some mori items' poses can be used for lolita (like the leg mod from mori's memento). Mori isn't that well known and some consider it a subculture of lolita so maybe that's why gaia just tag it the same.
An item list and guild would be awesome. biggrin There's also a subforum dedicated to lolita fashion.

I've spent some time on the subforum...

I thought so. sweatdrop