NPC Announcements & odd userbase reactions(dat slut shaming)

[Shannon2112]

Kelso The Great

Shannon2112

Dense, this one is.
I'm sorry words don't hurt me nearly as much as you.
So you can exchange arguments with me all you like, it doesn't stop things like gendercide or sexism or rape, which REALLY HAPPEN, and are not merely discussed or "threatened" over the internet where there is no real threat or consequence of rape. The most that could be shared would be an idea or language which has the potential to be toxic.
Try all we might, we cannot control what others do, only ourselves, so it is futile to fight things we ultimately have no control in. Just deal with them as you see fit and move on with your life.
Part of living in the world is also dealing with the crap of it.

As far as how media portrays women, I really could careless, because that is not my reality, others may aspire to be that way, but ultimately s**t like this has absolutely no effect on my womanhood.

Not sure how giving media criticism isn't dealing with it as I see fit, but whatever.

Media may not affect your womanhood, but it affects everyone else's. Language and culture shape our thoughts, media shapes our language and culture. Here, have some links. This one's good, too. So's this one. Yo. Hey, look, words affect things. Look, other people dealing with problems in the media as they see fit. Someone trying to use words as weapons.

Quote:

are not merely discussed or "threatened" over the internet where there is no real threat or consequence of rape.

It's so cute you think that. Because constant verbal abuse and threats are TOTALLY something women should just toughen up and ignore, even when they're doing the exact same thing a guy is and he's not getting a fourth of the death threats and none of the rape threats.

Because abuse is always physical.

Because silencing women with threats of violence isn't a thing that happens.

Quote:

Try all we might, we cannot control what others do, only ourselves, so it is futile to fight things we ultimately have no control in.

By that idea, no one should ever try to change anything. Thanks, but no thanks.

[The SentineI]

.:The Sentinel has deemed you worthy of her words, mortal...

Mortals are foolish and would rather complain about something convenient (and make judgements about character based on one's body type) than looking deeper into the issue.

"I think I'd still rather devour this world in flames while legions
of demons poke at the few remaining survivors with tridents.
That sounds more my speed.":.

[M00NDR0PS]

" Hey, it's me! Don't shoot! "

»»» I don't discriminate on one more than the other, I hate both equally. emotion_dealwithit

But no, I believe Flynn gets the brunt of it because:
A) She was the first gold generator that paved the way to the ruin of our economy,
B) Gaia aptly named her "assets" accordingly (and it's not the first time Gaia has made innuendos, look at "Sam's Body and Parts" and "Ruby's Rack" to name a few examples).

Jet and Cygnus aren't referenced the same way as Flynn is. Yes, we know that Flynn is a space pirate, but honestly, it's not hard to take "Flynn's Booty" and "Flynn's Chest" out of the pirate context and make then innuendos. Jet and Cygnus just... Offer a million cash announcements a day and shove piss-poor recolors in our faces. None of which (referring to the recolors) have names that can be taken sexually.

" I did everything you asked! "

[Sand Dancer Shaka]

Sand Dancer Shaka

I doubt it anything to do with NPC gendering rather than:
a) Timing of released items
b) Context (What they were releasing in comparison to everything else that was out at that time)
c) Item naming.

For Flynn users went into a frenzy because:
a) Sudden increase in CS sales compared with the bi-weekly, users didn't appreciate the constant announcements.
b) Flynn was the first of the gold generators of recent years, this generator plunged the MP into spiralling costs, and despite that it was stated to be short term, users found that it was re-released time and again.
c) Her items were all unaptly named to promote innuendo and sexualisation of her, users either consciously or unconsciously picked this up to run with it, as there are few other services/professions that use sexualised message for sales (i.e. clothing, prostitution, retail).

By comparison Jet/Cygnus:
a) Were seen to be flogging normal items albeit in larger volumes, these items didn't necessarily increase inflation dramatically.
b) They amped up annoucements were seen to be lesser evils compared to GGs.
c) They have no innuendo based items, nor dialogue so the suggesting for "whoring out" cannot be applied and understood as readily.


TLDR; It's nothing to do with her being female, nor her being an "unpopular" NPC. She was a scapegoat that was the unfortunately result of multiple confounding factors that cannot be applied in the same way as with Jet/Cygnus.

Just to add to my prior post. I also think that this situation is actually users stirring each other into a more extreme frnezy, the last time users reacted in this way was when Diedrich appeared in consecutive events, RIGs and mini-events following Gambino's death. While I don't have time to find specific threads there was an over abundance of graphic mutilation and death threats (not in a comic/cartoon way) against Diedrich in an irrational way. Personally, I like Diedrich, but I know plenty of users hated him in '10 in particularly. Threads like this and much worse were commonplace about him. The circumstance in which Flynn's abuse occurred was a result of situation and user anger, an anger which could not be vented to the appropriate management so she became the focus.

It's no excuse for the poor behaviour Gaians have exhibited, there are always more conducive ways to express anger than irrational defamation and threats towards a particular NPC. The internet brings out the worst in people, and personally I don't like it.

[TasteChaos]

Kelso The Great

As far as how media portrays women, I really could careless, because that is not my reality, others may aspire to be that way, but ultimately s**t like this has absolutely no effect on my womanhood.

^ This. This is basically why I don't believe in the idea of rape-culture because it singles out women as a victim of a culture and media-portrayal. Stating that women in this society are brought up and taught to hate sexuality, themselves and other women is more offending to me than any lady in sexy impractical fantasy-armor. I am not taught to hate anything, because I am capable of thinking for myself. in I am not a victim of a society, I am a part of it.

[Bowie-Spawan]

Sand Dancer Shaka

The internet brings out the worst in people, and personally I don't like it.

The sad truth.
Lots of keyboard warriors, who would never dare speak to anyone's face the way they do on forums/blogs/etc.
It's the illusion(?) of anonymity; and while I agree to a degree that it's 'just words', their choice does tell something about the general mentality of the people who use them. Lotsa people I'd rather not meet in a dark alley, ever.

[Kelso The Great]

Shannon2112

WOW One Tumblr page, I am so impressed!
You are so busy trying to get me to be a bleeding heart like you, that you are loosing sight of what is important?
Do you want me to pick up a torch and pitchfork and join you in an attempt to suppress every sexist comment ever made?
LOL You need to understand that you or I have no real effect on people doing these things, so its not like we can stop them.
I think I am done being made out to be a villain here, when I really just don't care anymore, this is exactly why I never want to consider myself a feminist, they get so worked up over little things that when reality hits them in the face they don't know how to handle it.
Like this crusade to ban the word bossy, it is stupid to attack a word, like it is stupid to attack an NPC, and therefore of little consequence to me.

I am encouraging sexism in what way? Because I don't cry out at every little remark made?
Ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf?

[SuccuViv]

I honestly can't deal with the stupid in some people x_x I'm just glad they show their true colors so I can use this handy thing I wish I had irl, the ignore feature.

[Slick Southpaw]

crap I missed that post, breakin it up for points.

Sand Dancer Shaka

By comparison Jet/Cygnus:
a) Were seen to be flogging normal items albeit in larger volumes, these items didn't necessarily increase inflation dramatically.
b) They amped up annoucements were seen to be lesser evils compared to GGs.
c) They have no innuendo based items, nor dialogue so the suggesting for "whoring out" cannot be applied and understood as readily.

J&C shat out a lot of gold generators. A ******** lot. Including innuendo based items like Santa's Sack and Gambino's Family Jewels. More gold generators that had higher gold payout than Flynn's repetition.

That's why it's disjointed for me to see them not get so many hate comments like Flynn (not like I'm advocating for more hate on them, but the simple fact that they've done far more damage to the economy than Flynn has, I'm surprised they don't garner that level of vile threats).

Sand Dancer Shaka

the last time users reacted in this way was when Diedrich appeared in consecutive events, RIGs and mini-events following Gambino's death. While I don't have time to find specific threads there was an over abundance of graphic mutilation and death threats (not in a comic/cartoon way) against Diedrich in an irrational way. Personally, I like Diedrich, but I know plenty of users hated him in '10 in particularly. Threads like this and much worse were commonplace about him.

>w> I didn't like him till that silly election campaign because it was too freaking hilarious.

I don't understand the irrational anger (for either of them, to that degree), but I understand despising him because it felt like plot was being trolled by him and so much focus on him and deviating from the plots and yeaahhhhh.

Sand Dancer Shaka

The circumstance in which Flynn's abuse occurred was a result of situation and user anger, an anger which could not be vented to the appropriate management so she became the focus.

:/ That right there is disturbing to me.

I'd rather see 87948674956 ranting threads in SF than this venting of anger on Flynn. Frustration at management, being ignored multiple times, displeased at site changes, loathing gc promotions, hating on generators, I totally understand it.

The focus of posting on flynn being "lets ******** this b***h up" verses "i ******** hate her goddamn generators just stop this ********" is what bothers me. You don't see that in reaction to J&C; just telling them to stfu, even when they're peddling gold generators that continue to add more to the system and ******** it up even more.

[Sand Dancer Shaka]

Bowie-Spawan

The sad truth.
Lots of keyboard warriors, who would never dare speak to anyone's face the way they do on forums/blogs/etc.
It's the illusion(?) of anonymity; and while I agree to a degree that it's 'just words', their choice does tell something about the general mentality of the people who use them. Lotsa people I'd rather not meet in a dark alley, ever.

Only too true, unfortunately, but with some government institutions now cracking down on these kinds of posts maybe the internet will start to change. In the UK there is now a legal precedent against threats of violence, defamation, and harrassment on social media such as Twitter, often made by anonymous internet trolls "innocently" but resulting in a criminal record for the user.

[Bowie-Spawan]

Sand Dancer Shaka

Bowie-Spawan

The sad truth.
Lots of keyboard warriors, who would never dare speak to anyone's face the way they do on forums/blogs/etc.
It's the illusion(?) of anonymity; and while I agree to a degree that it's 'just words', their choice does tell something about the general mentality of the people who use them. Lotsa people I'd rather not meet in a dark alley, ever.

Only too true, unfortunately, but with some government institutions now cracking down on these kinds of posts maybe the internet will start to change. In the UK there is now a legal precedent against threats of violence, defamation, and harrassment on social media such as Twitter, often made by anonymous internet trolls "innocently" but resulting in a criminal record for the user.

I've personally always abhorred incessant trolling (I don't see the humour in it) and online bullying and I think it's only right that these things be prosecuted in some way. Setting precendants is important, people have comitted suicide over much less (and the worst is the kind of comments after such a tragedy; I remember a case not too long ago where a girl killed herself over it and the nastieness of the comments seemed to only increase after her death; makes me lose all faith in humanity).

[Bowie-Spawan]

Bowie-Spawan

While I do have a vivid imagination, I'm perfectly capable of discerning fantasy from reality. I'd never direct any dissatisfaction I have at a fictional character. Sure I curse the bed when I stub my toe on it and the computer when it spazzes out, but a fictional charcter on an internet site that is merely a representation used to spread information? I'd feel silly and I feel honest to god second hand embarassment when I see people dump any kind of personally insulting comments on their profiles or elsewhere. They're fictional, they can't defend themselves, much less control their actions. It's like blaming the puppett for what the puppetteer makes it do. Meh.

I guess some people just need to vent and don't think about how that ends up seeming to those of us who have better control over their emotions. Death threats and insults, especially when the people in question sound like raving drunks on a binge, just make me want to back away slowly.
A lot of users will air their discontent in SF and rightly so, I guess those who are unaware of that feature might find their way to an NPC profile to air their grievances in their lack of anyone else to direct it at.

As for why Flynn's 'feedback' is especially vicious/degrading, I don't know. Because we're all somewhat mysogynistic? Because naming the rigs after her body parts kinda provokes those types of insults? Because the majority of users is female and a cute kitty and a sexy male npc catch less flak, simply for the pretty? Even in extremis I would like to think I'd never stoop so low, but I guess some people just get really riled up and lose their s**t sweatdrop

Didn't want to quote a gazillion people, but I saw the arguing over feminism, rape culture etc.

I'm not a fan of people overstating an issue and making mountains out of molehills; I think there's a time and a place for everything, including fighting for equality (the term 'feminism' has a bit of a bad taste as of late, due to idiocy like elevatorgate and the general culture of whiteknight tumblr sjws that will jump anyone's throat at the slightest suspicion of OPRESSION!!! emotion_eyebrow

But the kind of vitriol directed at a fictional character that we see here does give me pause, and while I don't think it's the kind of thing that warrants people taking to the streets and demonstrating or anything, I do think discussion and talking about it are a good thing. As well as pointing out the inherent double standard in user reactions when it comes to male NPCs vs. female NPCs and the underlying mysogyny of the insults.

/raaaant

[Sand Dancer Shaka]

Slick Southpaw

crap I missed that post, breakin it up for points.
J&C shat out a lot of gold generators. A ******** lot. Including innuendo based items like Santa's Sack and Gambino's Family Jewels. More gold generators that had higher gold payout than Flynn's repetition.

That's why it's disjointed for me to see them not get so many hate comments like Flynn (not like I'm advocating for more hate on them, but the simple fact that they've done far more damage to the economy than Flynn has, I'm surprised they don't garner that level of vile threats).

>w> I didn't like him till that silly election campaign because it was too freaking hilarious.

I don't understand the irrational anger (for either of them, to that degree), but I understand despising him because it felt like plot was being trolled by him and so much focus on him and deviating from the plots and yeaahhhhh.

Sand Dancer Shaka

The circumstance in which Flynn's abuse occurred was a result of situation and user anger, an anger which could not be vented to the appropriate management so she became the focus.

:/ That right there is disturbing to me.

I'd rather see 87948674956 ranting threads in SF than this venting of anger on Flynn. Frustration at management, being ignored multiple times, displeased at site changes, loathing gc promotions, hating on generators, I totally understand it.

The focus of posting on flynn being "lets ******** this b***h up" verses "i ******** hate her goddamn generators just stop this ********" is what bothers me. You don't see that in reaction to J&C; just telling them to stfu, even when they're peddling gold generators that continue to add more to the system and ******** it up even more.

Aaah, but the context and timing of the larger GGs is an important factor to correlate the level of abuse to Jet/Cyg. By the time other GGs arrived largely people were becoming used to the gold being paid out. In the case of Santa, people can't see Santa as sexualised, as Western audiences are brought up to treat him as an additional Grandfather figure, at the time I remember people were complaining at the use of inneundo with an important childhood figurehead such as Santa. Flynn was actually sold to us as a nerd/geek who magically transformed into a "sexy" pirate, so sexualisation is easier compared to Santa, who if sexualised would creep out/offend a good majority of users. Her actual name was stamped on that item like a brand on people's minds.

Gambino rolling around meant that people were desensitised. Importantly, I think that although Candy hearts caused super inflation people were used to gold payouts by then and the GG wasn't associated with a particular NPC and released for several months, despite being told it was short-term.I think that's why they don't get so much hate, it's mainly desensitisation to the GGs, people have given up raging and fighting against GGs in the main.

I can't understand it myself, you know. It's irrational to take out anger on a fictional character who has no bearing on the running of the site. I do feel that she was relied upon to be a scapegoat so management didn't have to deal with the fall out from such rapid, and drastic, change. Even if she was real, I still wouldn't understand the way users have handled it... Similar to the "x person should be fired" threads, it's not conductive, nor constructive and actually, it only weakens the argument against the changes because the general reaction to those threads is, "They're just angry, what they're saying has no bearing because it's emotional. What they're saying isn't actually 100% because it said out of anger."