The v****a Monologues Question

[Holidazed]

The only experience ive had pertaining the v****a monologue was being half drunk on a deck and watching a girl reenact it loudly and proudly even yelling out and emphatically pronouncing each letter in the word v****a, it was actually pretty funny until she kind of broke down and started crying then it became very sad.

[The20]

Riviera de la Mancha

Faustine Liem

Seriously.

Quote:

Abigail Holloway, 33 The former gym teacher at the Christian prep school, Kings Academy, in Sunnyvale, Calif., was arrested March 5, 2009, at St. Mary’s Academy in Englewood, Colorado, where she was working, on charges stemming from an alleged sexual relationship with a female student lasting from 2001 to 2005. The girl, now a student at Whitworth College in Spokane, Wash., told a school counselor about the relationship that had occurred in California beginning when she was 13. During that time, according to the girl, she and Holloway were intimate “over 100 times.” “We have a very special relationship. It is a gift from God,” states an alleged e-mail from Holloway to the girl in March 2003. “Not many people are going to understand that, but we know in our hearts that God made us for each other!” Holloway is fighting extradition.

^^^
I guess that was good rape. emotion_puke

Possibly to the victim, yeah.

That the play makes you think about the issue is the point of the play.

Now try to tell the same story with an adult man instead of an adult woman and watch the world burn.

[Henrika]

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

So quite recently I was reading about how The v****a Monologues, which I admit, I am not super familiar with, involes some story called ""The Little Coochie Snorcher that Could"

The Impression I am given is that it involved the date-rape of a teenage girl who later concludes that "If it was rape, it was good rape."

So if there is anyone out their familiar with the play, can I ask... Is there... Some context I'm missing? The impression I've always had of the v****a Monologues is a relatively good one... I mean, a lot of my really intelligent feminist associates are big on it...

Is there something I'm missing that makes the statement "If it was rape, it was good rape." any less horrible?

Yeah you're missing the context. It's about a girl who was raised to wear 3 pairs of panties and never let anyone (or herself) touch her EVER. Her mom basically raises her to have issues with her own body, and touching herself etc.
She is raped by her father's friend at a party - her father shoots the guy and her dad loses custody.

She then meets an older woman and has sex with her, and she teaches her not to be afraid of herself. The problem is that technically that is "statutory rape" meaning that even though she wanted to consent she couldn't, but the incident helps the protagonist get over her fears about her body. (At this point in the story she's 16, the older woman is 24.)




I should point out, the context makes it a bit easier to swallow, but its still distasteful IMO... either statutory rape and its terrible or it isn't. With so many real life children getting ******** up for life from statutory rape I think the story is trying way to hard to try and glorify it. Then again, everyone's experiences are different, and I suppose this is meant to be one person's experience.

[Jeff the Kitten]

Riviera de la Mancha

YourNeighborsCat

Riviera de la Mancha

YourNeighborsCat

Riviera de la Mancha

1.) And the story that the OP is referencing does show her sexual development from a very young age all the way through to her adult life. It doesn't pretend that she was unaware at all. That's part of what makes that particular story controversial. At one level, she is clearly raped, but at another, she (the character) consents to it and ends up seeing it as a generally "good" experience in her development. Does this cheapen her consent? Should the character have grappled with being raped? Is it right for someone in the audience to see her overall experience positive? These and many other issues are raised. That's the point of the play; to raise the issue in an evoking way.

No one is forcing you to like it, or even see that play.

2.) See above. Is it an illusion? The character certainly expresses enjoyment. Again, that's what the play is in part supposed to do - push the envelope, make you uncomfortable, and confront several topics about sex and sexual development.

Yes. Listen to the personal testimony of a made up minor accepting her sexuality that she had her whole life by the masochistic act of getting well drunk and ******** by a predatory older woman, but somehow being able to remember the vivid sexual pleasure of the whole beer goggle experience. Written by Jane "the neurotic lesbian" Doe. Directed by M. Night Shyamalan.

Again, no one is telling you to like it. Analyze it as you wish. It certainly calls for analysis.

Surprisingly, not every story or play you will see or hear of will suit your tastes.

This has nothing to do with the play. A book is a book, bruh. This has to do with some sick, adult woman who is respected among the feminist community projecting her ********* filth as a tenant of feminism and as something normal/acceptable in sexuality and society. If you back track to my earlier post, you will see a further elaborated explanation as to why this kind of behavior needs to be shut down immediately.

Have you seen the play?

Its not projected as any one message. It just purports to convey several dimensions of the female sexual and developmental experience. The v****a Monologues consists of several small plays and stories put together. One story is relayed by an older female character wherein she recounts her first time climaxing and the guy getting upset with her that she ruined his seats. There is another story that's all just a woman describing her v****a as she sees it in a mirror for the first time. Its also got a story about a prostitute making light of the different orgasm sounds people make.

It doesn't promise you will like all that's presented. It doesn't promise you will only see "positive" stories. It doesn't even promise to have a single overriding message for you to follow. You are free to dislike it certainly.

I saw your post. Again, I am just saying that the message was not the one the poster described.

You said that the girl was clearly raped on one level, but on another level she absolutely consented to it. This is a logical fallacy, as rape and consent are incompatible. Another logical fallacy is assuming that someone who was made drunk and then raped would be able to piece together personal experience from it. Drunkenness affects short term and long term memory, yet the story implies that a 13 year old girl was somehow able to overcome this phenomena of human brain chemistry and conclude that the drunk sexual assault on her was 'good'.

Finally, you describe the story as a down to earth experience. This girl has defied the laws of physics, grown up and become a healthy functioning adult and then turns into an advocate for this kind of lesbian interaction. All in the span of a few page.

Pushing the envelope is when you have somebody who can prove that they enjoyed/weren't traumatized by something that everybody else has provided evidence as being traumatizing and harmful. Not when some old b***h makes up a source willing to say that and then has the source turn around and advocate for it.

Kind of like how Disney 'pushed the envelope' on the issue of slavery by making up some bogus film about how the slave life and slave trade were really the spice of life kind of stuff, and both the slaves and the masters were just happy fun-loving humans frolicking in existential bliss.

It's not introducing some far out provable idea that nobody has thought about before to better humanity. It's a back rub while sodomizing the reader with a chainsaw; the back rub supposedly making up for the fact that you are now sterile, bleeding to death, in unspeakable amounts of pain, and no longer able to move.

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

Henrika

Yeah you're missing the context. It's about a girl who was raised to wear 3 pairs of panties and never let anyone (or herself) touch her EVER. Her mom basically raises her to have issues with her own body, and touching herself etc.
She is raped by her father's friend at a party - her father shoots the guy and her dad loses custody.

I see.

Quote:

She then meets an older woman and has sex with her, and she teaches her not to be afraid of herself. The problem is that technically that is "statutory rape" meaning that even though she wanted to consent she couldn't, but the incident helps the protagonist get over her fears about her body.

Yeah... Yeah.... See... I'm really not liking that language (Uh, not something on your part, mind you. This isn't personal. It's about the ideas in the play). I'm sorry, maybe it's rooted in my personal experiences with horrible BDSM (This isn't some attack on BDSM as a whole. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am into it. I will confirm that I have been given the strong impression that the community doesn't like this) authors who write what are transparently stories of abuse and use flowery language to protect it.

Like... I'm sorry.... It's just.... Freaking identical language.

Dom abducts/tricks/pulls some legal nonsense that doesn't work in the real world to force sub into abusive relationship. Unlocks subs sexuality and teaches sub to _______ though, so sub actually likes it. So it's okay.

My specific dislike of this might just be rooted in my personal experiences, actually.

Quote:

I should point out, the context makes it a bit easier to swallow,

Only marginally.

Quote:

but its still distasteful IMO... either statutory rape and its terrible or it isn't.

I am inclined towards it is.

Quote:

I think the story is trying way to hard to try and glorify it.

Agreed.

See, here is my thing... That context... I can see that... But... Like.... Why can't it be two consenting adults in a loving relationship?

Is there something that necessitates that she be a minor and it be rape?

I dunno, man, maybe it is something that is based on experience the writer wanted to address... But it really bristles me...

[Jeff the Kitten]

Henrika

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

So quite recently I was reading about how The v****a Monologues, which I admit, I am not super familiar with, involes some story called ""The Little Coochie Snorcher that Could"

The Impression I am given is that it involved the date-rape of a teenage girl who later concludes that "If it was rape, it was good rape."

So if there is anyone out their familiar with the play, can I ask... Is there... Some context I'm missing? The impression I've always had of the v****a Monologues is a relatively good one... I mean, a lot of my really intelligent feminist associates are big on it...

Is there something I'm missing that makes the statement "If it was rape, it was good rape." any less horrible?

Yeah you're missing the context. It's about a girl who was raised to wear 3 pairs of panties and never let anyone (or herself) touch her EVER. Her mom basically raises her to have issues with her own body, and touching herself etc.
She is raped by her father's friend at a party - her father shoots the guy and her dad loses custody.

She then meets an older woman and has sex with her, and she teaches her not to be afraid of herself. The problem is that technically that is "statutory rape" meaning that even though she wanted to consent she couldn't, but the incident helps the protagonist get over her fears about her body. (At this point in the story she's 16, the older woman is 24.)




I should point out, the context makes it a bit easier to swallow, but its still distasteful IMO... either statutory rape and its terrible or it isn't. With so many real life children getting ******** up for life from statutory rape I think the story is trying way to hard to try and glorify it. Then again, everyone's experiences are different, and I suppose this is meant to be one person's experience.

I see a man hating feminists with every word of the play. The author marginalizes men as both oppressive to a woman's sexuality and entirely unable to be forgiven for rape. She then brings in this messiah of an older woman (likely a projection of herself; the *****) with tits, a**, a p***y, and alcohol; who will bring forth this deep sexual-masochism in a thirteen year old where two oppressive parents and an unrelenting organ donor couldn't.

It's basically rape-narci-sexism. "Only women can be allowed to ******** kids, and when they do you damn well better accept it. The kids love it, just read my made up story. ******** traditional family structures; it's time for a *****. Cishet scum."

[Henrika]

YourNeighborsCat

Henrika

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

So quite recently I was reading about how The v****a Monologues, which I admit, I am not super familiar with, involes some story called ""The Little Coochie Snorcher that Could"

The Impression I am given is that it involved the date-rape of a teenage girl who later concludes that "If it was rape, it was good rape."

So if there is anyone out their familiar with the play, can I ask... Is there... Some context I'm missing? The impression I've always had of the v****a Monologues is a relatively good one... I mean, a lot of my really intelligent feminist associates are big on it...

Is there something I'm missing that makes the statement "If it was rape, it was good rape." any less horrible?

Yeah you're missing the context. It's about a girl who was raised to wear 3 pairs of panties and never let anyone (or herself) touch her EVER. Her mom basically raises her to have issues with her own body, and touching herself etc.
She is raped by her father's friend at a party - her father shoots the guy and her dad loses custody.

She then meets an older woman and has sex with her, and she teaches her not to be afraid of herself. The problem is that technically that is "statutory rape" meaning that even though she wanted to consent she couldn't, but the incident helps the protagonist get over her fears about her body. (At this point in the story she's 16, the older woman is 24.)




I should point out, the context makes it a bit easier to swallow, but its still distasteful IMO... either statutory rape and its terrible or it isn't. With so many real life children getting ******** up for life from statutory rape I think the story is trying way to hard to try and glorify it. Then again, everyone's experiences are different, and I suppose this is meant to be one person's experience.

I see a man hating feminists with every word of the play. The author marginalizes men as both oppressive to a woman's sexuality and entirely unable to be forgiven for rape. She then brings in this messiah of an older woman (likely a projection of herself; the *****) with tits, a**, a p***y, and alcohol; who will bring forth this deep sexual-masochism in a thirteen year old where two oppressive parents and an unrelenting organ donor couldn't.

It's basically rape-narci-sexism. "Only women can be allowed to ******** kids, and when they do you damn well better accept it. The kids love it, just read my made up story. ******** traditional family structures; it's time for a *****. Cishet scum."

It's the mother of the protagonist, a woman, who first sexually represses her. She is raped when she is 13 by her father's friend, who is then shot and killed. This is a traumatic experience, made worse by her mother raising her to believe that anyone touching her v****a is her own fault.

The men's roles in the story are marginalized, because guess what, the story is about a girl. The protagonist. It's her story, and the men and their actions are secondary to the relationship between the girl, her mother, and her "sexual liberator". It's exceedingly common in nearly all forms of current media to marginalize female experiences, and its funny that you only care when the marginalization is reversed.

When she has sex with the older woman, she is 16 at that point, and the woman is 24. There is grey area with statutory rape and I think the awfulness of this specific point is worth debating, but ultimately, this specific story is about an individual's experience and how it helped her get over her own fears about her body that her mom created.

[Chahklet]

Henrika

YourNeighborsCat

Henrika

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

So quite recently I was reading about how The v****a Monologues, which I admit, I am not super familiar with, involes some story called ""The Little Coochie Snorcher that Could"

The Impression I am given is that it involved the date-rape of a teenage girl who later concludes that "If it was rape, it was good rape."

So if there is anyone out their familiar with the play, can I ask... Is there... Some context I'm missing? The impression I've always had of the v****a Monologues is a relatively good one... I mean, a lot of my really intelligent feminist associates are big on it...

Is there something I'm missing that makes the statement "If it was rape, it was good rape." any less horrible?

Yeah you're missing the context. It's about a girl who was raised to wear 3 pairs of panties and never let anyone (or herself) touch her EVER. Her mom basically raises her to have issues with her own body, and touching herself etc.
She is raped by her father's friend at a party - her father shoots the guy and her dad loses custody.

She then meets an older woman and has sex with her, and she teaches her not to be afraid of herself. The problem is that technically that is "statutory rape" meaning that even though she wanted to consent she couldn't, but the incident helps the protagonist get over her fears about her body. (At this point in the story she's 16, the older woman is 24.)




I should point out, the context makes it a bit easier to swallow, but its still distasteful IMO... either statutory rape and its terrible or it isn't. With so many real life children getting ******** up for life from statutory rape I think the story is trying way to hard to try and glorify it. Then again, everyone's experiences are different, and I suppose this is meant to be one person's experience.

I see a man hating feminists with every word of the play. The author marginalizes men as both oppressive to a woman's sexuality and entirely unable to be forgiven for rape. She then brings in this messiah of an older woman (likely a projection of herself; the *****) with tits, a**, a p***y, and alcohol; who will bring forth this deep sexual-masochism in a thirteen year old where two oppressive parents and an unrelenting organ donor couldn't.

It's basically rape-narci-sexism. "Only women can be allowed to ******** kids, and when they do you damn well better accept it. The kids love it, just read my made up story. ******** traditional family structures; it's time for a *****. Cishet scum."

It's the mother of the protagonist, a woman, who first sexually represses her. She is raped when she is 13 by her father's friend, who is then shot and killed. This is a traumatic experience, made worse by her mother raising her to believe that anyone touching her v****a is her own fault.

The men's roles in the story are marginalized, because guess what, the story is about a girl. The protagonist. It's her story, and the men and their actions are secondary to the relationship between the girl, her mother, and her "sexual liberator". It's exceedingly common in nearly all forms of current media to marginalize female experiences, and its funny that you only care when the marginalization is reversed.

When she has sex with the older woman, she is 16 at that point, and the woman is 24. There is grey area with statutory rape and I think the awfulness of this specific point is worth debating, but ultimately, this specific story is about an individual's experience and how it helped her get over her own fears about her body that her mom created.

She was just re-victimized, not rehabilitated through therapy or healthy means. It still sounds like Stockholm. :/ Because a person can come to terms with trauma without having to endure it all over again. THERE ARE SO MANY BETTER OPTIONS.

[The Legendary Guest]

Here's the text.

This took me less than 30 seconds to find. This is apparently a woman's actual experience with recovering her own ability to enjoy her body.

[The20]

YourNeighborsCat

Another logical fallacy is assuming that someone who was made drunk and then raped would be able to piece together personal experience from it. Drunkenness affects short term and long term memory, yet the story implies that a 13 year old girl was somehow able to overcome this phenomena of human brain chemistry and conclude that the drunk sexual assault on her was 'good'.

"Drunk" is relative. I've been drunk to the point where i had trouble walking straight, horrendous reaction times and i still remember most of that evening. That was maybe 9 years ago. I've had alcohol affect my behavior (made me loosen up ... slightly) after one bottle of beer, with no other obvious side effects.

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

The Legendary Guest

Here's the text.

This took me less than 30 seconds to find. This is apparently a woman's actual experience with recovering her own ability to enjoy her body.

I suppose.

Doesn't make me any more comfortable with it, mind you.

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

The20

YourNeighborsCat

Another logical fallacy is assuming that someone who was made drunk and then raped would be able to piece together personal experience from it. Drunkenness affects short term and long term memory, yet the story implies that a 13 year old girl was somehow able to overcome this phenomena of human brain chemistry and conclude that the drunk sexual assault on her was 'good'.

"Drunk" is relative. I've been drunk to the point where i had trouble walking straight, horrendous reaction times and i still remember most of that evening. That was maybe 9 years ago. I've had alcohol affect my behavior (made me loosen up ... slightly) after one bottle of beer, with no other obvious side effects.

"Drunk" may be relative, but a twenty-something providing alcohol to a 13 year old whom they proceed to have sex with is pretty damned set in stone.

[The Legendary Guest]

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

The Legendary Guest

Here's the text.

This took me less than 30 seconds to find. This is apparently a woman's actual experience with recovering her own ability to enjoy her body.

I suppose.

Doesn't make me any more comfortable with it, mind you.

As you've previously mentioned, you have your own traumatic issues to work out. As someone who has worked through their own, might I suggest that you lighten up regarding the experiences of others?

[Prince Aegon Targaryen VI]

The Legendary Guest

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

The Legendary Guest

Here's the text.

This took me less than 30 seconds to find. This is apparently a woman's actual experience with recovering her own ability to enjoy her body.

I suppose.

Doesn't make me any more comfortable with it, mind you.

As you've previously mentioned, you have your own traumatic issues to work out. As someone who has worked through their own, might I suggest that you lighten up regarding the experiences of others?

Uh, it's not a traumatic issue.

It's the fact that the language I'm seeing used in defense of this is pretty damned similar to the language I see used in defense of rape/abuse-glorifying erotic literature.

Discovering this literature's existence didn't traumatize me. It disgusted me. That's all.

As for lighting up.

Yeah, no thanks.

Not when it involves a rosily painted story about a twenty-something having sex with a child whom the aforementioned twenty-something provided with liquor.

No, I think I can proudly say I don't intend on ever lightening up on that issue.

[The Legendary Guest]

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

The Legendary Guest

Prince Aegon Targaryen VI

The Legendary Guest

Here's the text.

This took me less than 30 seconds to find. This is apparently a woman's actual experience with recovering her own ability to enjoy her body.

I suppose.

Doesn't make me any more comfortable with it, mind you.

As you've previously mentioned, you have your own traumatic issues to work out. As someone who has worked through their own, might I suggest that you lighten up regarding the experiences of others?

Uh, it's not a traumatic issue.

Then via what medium do you believe you can relate to this story?

Quote:

It's the fact that the language I'm seeing used in defense of this is pretty damned similar to the language I see used in defense of rape/abuse-glorifying erotic literature.

I'm not talking about the language used to discuss the issue. I am talking about the text of the story itself.

Quote:

Discovering this literature's existence didn't traumatize me. It disgusted me. That's all.

Someone else's story about their own trauma disgusts you? OK.

Quote:

As for lighting up.

On what level do you relate to the author?

Quote:

Yeah, no thanks.

Insert serenely unconcerned shrug here.

Quote:

Not when it involves a rosily painted story about a twenty-something having sex with a child whom the aforementioned twenty-something provided with liquor.

You find that story to be painted rosily, do you? That's interesting.

Quote:

No, I think I can proudly say I don't intend on ever lightening up on that issue.

Considering the way you seem to be perversely attracted to a single aspect of the entire dialogue, all I can say is thanks for the insight into how your mind works.