Abusive Fathers Win Custody Battles More Often Than Mothers

[Meroko_Love]

The Sky Is Precrustean

Meroko_Love

Stygian Soleil

Meroko_Love

The myth is that women always win custody battles; which as I've pointed out is not true. I've presented sources that show many times when fathers, particularly abusers, fight for custody, many times end up getting it.

I don't believe that there is a myth out there that women always win custody battles, so you're kind of attacking a straw man here.

I've been confronted with that myth a lot in my life experiences. I guess it depends on where you live in the US maybe. confused

I think he takes exception to the "always" part. I think he has something of a point, but it's a useless pedantic sort of point.

You're a smart guy, do you have anything to say/add/refute about my sources and claims and whatnot? biggrin

[The Sky Is Precrustean]

Meroko_Love

The Sky Is Precrustean

Meroko_Love

Stygian Soleil

Meroko_Love

The myth is that women always win custody battles; which as I've pointed out is not true. I've presented sources that show many times when fathers, particularly abusers, fight for custody, many times end up getting it.

I don't believe that there is a myth out there that women always win custody battles, so you're kind of attacking a straw man here.

I've been confronted with that myth a lot in my life experiences. I guess it depends on where you live in the US maybe. confused

I think he takes exception to the "always" part. I think he has something of a point, but it's a useless pedantic sort of point.

You're a smart guy, do you have anything to say/add/refute about my sources and claims and whatnot? biggrin

If I did I would have said so earlier. I mean, you might want to use some sources with more hard data, vetted by others, but it's acceptable for a general knowledge thing. I think if you're going to write a thesis on it you may want to consider more academic and journal sources rather than online ones, no matter how trustworthy.

[Meroko_Love]

Here are some other sources I found on ESCOhost's database:


"Wife abuse, child custody and access in Canada."
Abstract:
In Canada, custody and access decisions continue to be made on the basis of the highly discretionary "best interests of the child" test, with only one province having legislation that requires judges to take account of spousal abuse in making decisions about children. This article reports on a study of Canadian family law cases from 1997-2000 that had spousal abuse issues (N = 45). Judges tended not to grant custody to a man who has abused his partner if the woman's claims of abuse were accepted as valid, but routinely granted abusive men access to their children on an unsupervised basis. This is problematic as many of the factors which create a risk in awarding custody to a batterer may endanger the mother or child if there is unsupervised access. Canada is in the midst of a contentious process of reforming child custody and access laws. Legislation should make specific reference to spousal abuse as a factor in making child related decisions, including consideration of the effect of any custody or access order on the safety of children and victims of spousal abuse. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved) Journal of Emotional Abuse, Vol 3(3-4), 2003. pp. 253-275.

"Before Death, We Must Part: Relocation and Protection for Domestic Violence Victims in Volatile Divorce and Custody Situations."
Abstract:
Domestic violence trends and case law reporters across the country suggest the time is right for a new alternative in the struggle to provide refuge for victims of domestic violence. As the American justice system stands right now, there is no significant mechanism in the United States with the financial, legislative, and legal backing to help victims of domestic violence escape. A model for relocation based upon the Federal Witness Protection Program can provide such a mechanism. The first part of this note presents a New Jersey case where a divorce proceeding resulted in the relocation and change of identity of a battered woman and her children, and suggests this remedy as a model for an interstate or federal relocation program for domestic violence victims. The next part provides a discussion of the merits and rationale behind such a program. The third part discusses the types of batterers this program would seem to protect against, a legal standard to ascertain whether someone is eligible, and certain logistical issues of a theoretical program. The next two parts discuss items troublesome to the implementation of both state and federal programs. The sixth part discusses potential issues such programs might face once implemented on both levels. Finally, the last part provides an overall assessment of the feasibility of such programs, followed by the conclusion. While the costs that would be incurred by such a program on the interstate or federal level may be quite high, it is quite clear that relocation and protection could save countless lives each year and provide a new beginning for the innocent victims that toil in a world of domestic violence. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)

[Meroko_Love]

The Sky Is Precrustean

Meroko_Love

The Sky Is Precrustean

Meroko_Love

Stygian Soleil

Meroko_Love

The myth is that women always win custody battles; which as I've pointed out is not true. I've presented sources that show many times when fathers, particularly abusers, fight for custody, many times end up getting it.

I don't believe that there is a myth out there that women always win custody battles, so you're kind of attacking a straw man here.

I've been confronted with that myth a lot in my life experiences. I guess it depends on where you live in the US maybe. confused

I think he takes exception to the "always" part. I think he has something of a point, but it's a useless pedantic sort of point.

You're a smart guy, do you have anything to say/add/refute about my sources and claims and whatnot? biggrin

If I did I would have said so earlier. I mean, you might want to use some sources with more hard data, vetted by others, but it's acceptable for a general knowledge thing. I think if you're going to write a thesis on it you may want to consider more academic and journal sources rather than online ones, no matter how trustworthy.

Yeah, I think so too. 3nodding

[Stygian Soleil]

Meroko_Love

I've been confronted with that myth a lot in my life experiences. I guess it depends on where you live in the US maybe. confused

Even though I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe that a father has never won a custody case, I don't see it as being a widely reputed myth.

[lumnata]

64 bits

lumnata

64 bits

lumnata

"Where did the myth that women always win child custody disputes come from?"

I'll tell you where. It comes from the fact that women are expected to raise the children. It's the women's job to take care of others (see: nursing, cosmetology, childhood teaching). The women are expected to raise the kids, the men often just go with that, they don't ASK for custody, and thus women are left with the children. Society sees the women taking care of the kids all the time and assume that the courts must have favored the women with custody... when the fact of the matter is that the men never asked for it in the first place!

Yes, men never ask for custody as a divorce or child birth. rolleyes Sites like this are fine though. X but this is a big no no, X. If men didn't fight for custody neither one of those would be needed. Plus lets be real confused

I never said men never, ever ask for custody nor did I say that they never have custody of their kids. My ex-husband has custody of my son, so....

So it's personal. confused

To me specifically? Not really. I have custody of one of my children and I do not have custody of my other child. Are many women left with the children without the fathers ever seeking out custody? Absolutely. Do many fathers seek and get custody of their children? Yep. I don't see how you're getting "so it's personal" based off of what I have said here.

[Mister George Kapland]

Stygian Soleil

Meroko_Love

I've been confronted with that myth a lot in my life experiences. I guess it depends on where you live in the US maybe. confused

Even though I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe that a father has never won a custody case, I don't see it as being a widely reputed myth.

It pops up a lot in the child support threads.

[Stygian Soleil]

Mister George Kapland

It pops up a lot in the child support threads.

Perhaps once again I am foolishly underestimating the stupidity of the human race.

[Mister George Kapland]

Stygian Soleil

Mister George Kapland

It pops up a lot in the child support threads.

Perhaps once again I am foolishly underestimating the stupidity of the human race.

I feel you. My older brother got custody of his kid, long before I heard of the myth. So I've never bought much into it.

Unless you get a sexist judge, or a woefully inept lawyer, if you're the fittest parent, you're probably going to get custody.

[Meroko_Love]

Mister George Kapland

Stygian Soleil

Mister George Kapland

It pops up a lot in the child support threads.

Perhaps once again I am foolishly underestimating the stupidity of the human race.

I feel you. My older brother got custody of his kid, long before I heard of the myth. So I've never bought much into it.

Unless you get a sexist judge, or a woefully inept lawyer, if you're the fittest parent, you're probably going to get custody.

Yeah, and it's especially very common in my state. There are unfortunately many sexist judges and there are virtually no female judges... But yeah, abusive fathers in my state are awarded custody far too often.

Another reason is that many traditional women do not work, or work a 9-5 job and are not able to financially support themselves. Men already make more than women, and when they are stuck in an abusive relationship, the abuser controls all the finances, even hers. So many times when the custody case happens, the victim is on the stand by herself, while the abusive husband can afford a good lawyer, so they win custody. Many of these battered women are homeless because they escape the relationship too, and homelessness looks pretty bad for a parent. :/

[Cendrillon LeFleur]

Meroko_Love

Mister George Kapland

Stygian Soleil

Mister George Kapland

It pops up a lot in the child support threads.

Perhaps once again I am foolishly underestimating the stupidity of the human race.

I feel you. My older brother got custody of his kid, long before I heard of the myth. So I've never bought much into it.

Unless you get a sexist judge, or a woefully inept lawyer, if you're the fittest parent, you're probably going to get custody.

Yeah, and it's especially very common in my state. There are unfortunately many sexist judges and there are virtually no female judges... But yeah, abusive fathers in my state are awarded custody far too often.

Another reason is that many traditional women do not work, or work a 9-5 job and are not able to financially support themselves. Men already make more than women, and when they are stuck in an abusive relationship, the abuser controls all the finances, even hers. So many times when the custody case happens, the victim is on the stand by herself, while the abusive husband can afford a good lawyer, so they win custody. Many of these battered women are homeless because they escape the relationship too, and homelessness looks pretty bad for a parent. :/

Law and Order SVU makes y'all Yanks look like turrible folk.

[Wolvercote]

lumnata

"Where did the myth that women always win child custody disputes come from?"

I'll tell you where. It comes from the fact that women are expected to raise the children. It's the women's job to take care of others (see: nursing, cosmetology, childhood teaching). The women are expected to raise the kids, the men often just go with that, they don't ASK for custody, and thus women are left with the children. Society sees the women taking care of the kids all the time and assume that the courts must have favored the women with custody... when the fact of the matter is that the men never asked for it in the first place!

Try and explain this to MRA members, and they don't want to believe it. You actually have to fight if you want your kids. You can't passively sit there and expect your kids to be handed to you. When fathers actually fight, they have a better chance at getting their children then not.

[deadguy]

Meroko_Love

deadguy

Meroko_Love

deadguy

How come abusive fathers get kids exactly as often as non-abusive ones? Like, down to the percent? Something seems off with that. You'd think they'd get them more, with all the advantages you say they have. Or less, with all the abuse and everything. But exactly the same?

I don't understand what you're talking about. Where are you getting this from?

I never said they have advantages, just that abusers are many times able to manipulate the court system in their favor just to get control of the kids.

In your opening post. You said fathers who went to court got the kids 70% of the time as a whole, and then that abusive fathers also got the kids exactly 70% of the time. I'm wondering why the two percentages are exactly the same.

That was my mistake; I meant that abusive fathers are able to convince authorities that the victim is unfit or undeserving of sole custody in approximately 70% of challenged cases

That wasn't the question. According to you, abusive fathers get sole or partial custody of a child in 70% of challenged cases, and fathers as a whole get sole or partial custody of a child in 70% of challenged cases. How come the numbers are so similar? I'd like to see the studies that found these two numbers.

[Mister George Kapland]

Meroko_Love

Yeah, and it's especially very common in my state. There are unfortunately many sexist judges and there are virtually no female judges... But yeah, abusive fathers in my state are awarded custody far too often.

One abusive father getting custody is too often. It's a shame there's not more female judges, although I've met a couple, my sociology teacher was a female judge in Custody Court or whatever it's called. She was a rather eye opening lady. Even if she was a goof.

Quote:

Another reason is that many traditional women do not work, or work a 9-5 job and are not able to financially support themselves. Men already make more than women, and when they are stuck in an abusive relationship, the abuser controls all the finances, even hers. So many times when the custody case happens, the victim is on the stand by herself, while the abusive husband can afford a good lawyer, so they win custody. Many of these battered women are homeless because they escape the relationship too, and homelessness looks pretty bad for a parent. :/

We should probably educate people on the signs of an abusive relationship.

Ladies, if he's beating you. You should probably leave.
If he doesn't let you have male friends, you should probably leave.
If he doesn't let you out of the house, you should probably leave.

[Dreaded Jai]

Mister George Kapland

We should probably educate people on the signs of an abusive relationship.

Ladies, if he's beating you. You should probably leave.
If he doesn't let you have male friends, you should probably leave.
If he doesn't let you out of the house, you should probably leave.

The problem with that is the psychological grip an abusive spouse can have. It's easy to say "you should leave" but it's not always easy to leave.