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As with any profession or hobby, we learn the history of our craft as a major part of our training. We learn a broad history of artists, styles, techniques, and movements from various continents as it pertains to fine art, architecture, and commercial art, and how it relates to the culture of the time. By doing this, we take in the information it took those artists entire lifetimes to come up with.

We learn the theory, techniques, the tools, and are able to guide ourselves through meaningful experimentation and insightful application of these things to grow as artists.

As we move into our specific sectors of the art world, we learn the history of the specific artform. For me, that artform is cartooning. I spend as much time (if not more, as of late) reading researching and exploring theory and history of cartooning, comics, and animation, as I do enjoying comics, animation and cartooning itself. It's part of being an artist.

As someone who is used to seeing people just be plain stupid, it still amazes me that people call themselves artists in the same breath that they show that they know absolutely nothing about the art and could really give half a s**t about knowing anything about the art.

There is a recent thread that sparked the interest in this topic. It's so pathetic that it goes beyond being sad. We all have phases of our "serious" art training/hobby/interest before it moves out of its infancy, where we are fixated on some trait that we find influential. For some, it's super hero comics. We don't actually learn about the artform that comics are, but rather look at the entire collective as a simple set of obvious traits. I can't begin to tell you how many times in the last 15 years I've been told, "Oh, I draw comics." And been shown a sketchbook consisting entirely of the same picture of Spawn and/or Spiderman that was committed to memory and just wretched up on page after page with all the skewing and distortion of someone who never took time to actually learn how to draw. You can substitute Spawn/Spiderman with whatever the flavor of the month is in anime. Back in the day it was Ramna/Lum. Sailor Moon/Goku. InuYasha/Naruto. The list goes on and on. How often have YOU seen someone post art copied from official/professional work? What rough percentage of that time was it anime/manga? What percentage of the time was it Marvel/DC/Image? What percentage of the time was it something else?

People simplify the artform to a set of superficial, trivial traits that they thoughtlessly regurgitate endlessly. They shuffle their deck of traits and deal their crap. How many galleries/sketch dumps have you seen where it's all the same character/pose/shot/colour scheme/use of line/use of shape (or lack thereof on both sides).

There are 52 cards in a deck. Two colours. Four shapes. You like red. Remove what's not red and you've removed half of your shape options. Remove what's not a heart and you're lost all shape options. You've gone from a trait set of 52, with three possible means of making variation, to 13 possibilities, leaving the most subtle difference as the only means of variation. Say red is the trait that defines your art. You've exponentially reduced the possibilities in your work before you've even made a mark on the page.

The same people are critiquing others by slapping a redline rubber stamp over more expressive, insightful, and/unique work than theirs has ever been. They encourage fledgling artists into the same sinkholes that they are so deep in they can't even see that there is a world outside of the pit. They discourage experimentation, exploration, and problem solving as they suggest tutorials and quick tools that appear to soothe symptoms of s**t art rather than looking deeper to cure the disease that causes the problem. They thrive on tutorials and redlines that allow them to copy another's work, rather than seeking to understand where theory that makes the techniques in the tutorial effective. (And this is being VERY generous. Most tutorials the average artist online makes are s**t out after eating already regurgitated s**t. That's what focusing superficial traits will get you.)

These people have no appreciation for the power of image, because they don't understand it. They don't care. They just want to make something that shows them those superficial traits they so admire.

I'm sure most of us have had some kind of dance with this devil, regardless of how long or short. I, the wonderfully skilled artists I know, and many professionals I admire are no exception. The difference between an artist and a so-called "anime artist" is that they've seen the bullshit for what it is, felt their shame, and started to give a s**t about the what's under the surface. They explore in their art. They evaluate. They research. They create with purpose. They grow. Style is irrelevant. If your artwork has an anime inspired look to it, it doesn't matter when you're an artist FIRST.

There are plenty of people that argue about what makes someone an artist. I think art is as simple as a thoughtful creation with the purpose of engaging an audience. Even if that audience is just yourself. The key words in this are "thoughtful" and "engage". Regardless of what you create, you should be an artist before you are any other qualifier. I call myself a cartoonist, because that best describes what I am most likely to do and most capable of doing, but "cartoonist" is the tail of the funnel while it's head is "artist".

Long story short, learn about what you're taking an interest in. Learn about the theories that make what you do work. Learn about the methods, tools, and techniques. Explore and experiment with them. Learn the culture of your craft. Knowledge is power. Your "s**t art" factor is inversely proportional how much you know. If you haven't learned to appreciate the power of image/word/sound, then chances are, you're a s**t artist/writer/musician.
This thread, it is the best thread.

Thank you for posting this.
hmm, it's a good rant, but...
Humans need to see things in simplified modes before they are able to get further in. If you see something for the first time, you'll label it as "that white square thing". When you get to know it's name it'll become "coffee machine". When you get more knowledge it'll change into "Vibiemme Domobar Junior Dual boiler" or "that thing in the kitchen that never works".

And art... because one of the aesthetics is to make it look fluent and easy to draw, someone who doesn't know about how to make art would assume that yes, it is easy to do. Especially anime/manga, which looks very much like "connect dots and you'll get a picture" -type of thing. Why tutorials? Because it would make sense to start from small... once you learn to draw an eye, you can learn to draw a nose. It's how we are taught to learn in school. First you start from 1+1 and after few years you'll go to 1+1= x

It's logical. It makes sense.

History and anatomy studies basically look like pretty useless things. What's the point of drawing a bone when you want to draw the leg? What's the point of drawing the leg from all sides, when you just want to learn it from front? If you know what artists lived on year 1517 and did a painting x, how will it help you?

And when someone, who draws pictures, that really look like something that you did in half hour because he knew exactly what he was doing, says that you should draw anatomy and for 5 hours each day, it makes one wonder... is it worth to try? To actually study so many hours for the small chance that this stranger just might be right about it? And there's also fear - if it works, what does it mean? If things aren't as you believe they are, what are they? Humans do naturally fear what they don't see or know, because they don't know how to act cordially so that it doesn't hurt them. Sounds silly when attached to something like drawing, but yes it also has a lot of potential to hurt you.


Or then I'm just simply over-sympathizing. Which I do a lot. ._.
But personally I always disliked tutorials and didn't think much of anatomy. I just believe that if a lot of people say/think like this, there must be some truth behind it, and have blind faith in that. Actually one thing that does annoy me about those people is their thinking that they would know better than someone who has been at it for 10 years. Thinking on your own is a good thing, but insisting that you know better than someone else without the years under your belt is just silly.

Dangerous Lunatic

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yeah we know this, and so do they, you didnt have to write it all out for everyone e.o
Nice thread. Very interesting to read. O_O
Absolutely beautiful.

Aged Codger

keepn_it_mexy
yeah we know this, and so do they, you didnt have to write it all out for everyone e.o


Actually, he did. It needs to be mentioned often. We need to beat these animu morons over the head with it until they finally get it, because they really are insulting the artists who try hard and have been doing this for a long time. I only wish somebody had said it to me ten years ago.
While I agree with what you're saying, I can't quite identify myself with the vehemence of it. I'm a very "let them do whatever they want to do as long as I can do whatever I want to do" person when it comes to art. Sure, it does bug me a bit when I see pictures with little to no substance gaining ridiculous amounts of popularity, but I'll shrug it off before the day ends and move on.

The mediocre outshining the good has always been prevalent in all sorts of field. The phenomenon may seem new in the field of art, but it's been out there for forever with other things.

Onisfi
And art... because one of the aesthetics is to make it look fluent and easy to draw, someone who doesn't know about how to make art would assume that yes, it is easy to do. Especially anime/manga, which looks very much like "connect dots and you'll get a picture" -type of thing. Why tutorials? Because it would make sense to start from small... once you learn to draw an eye, you can learn to draw a nose. It's how we are taught to learn in school. First you start from 1+1 and after few years you'll go to 1+1= x

It's logical. It makes sense.

You learn 1+1 first. You do not learn 3x-2=4, x=2 first. But a lot of people start with 3x-2=4 first because it looks cooler than 1+1, the same way shiny anime looks cooler than a shaded pencil drawing of a simple sphere. That's the problem, and that's where the logic fails.

Onisfi
But personally I always disliked tutorials and didn't think much of anatomy. I just believe that if a lot of people say/think like this, there must be some truth behind it, and have blind faith in that. Actually one thing that does annoy me about those people is their thinking that they would know better than someone who has been at it for 10 years. Thinking on your own is a good thing, but insisting that you know better than someone else without the years under your belt is just silly.

I don't get this paragraph. XD; Who do you believe, and who do you not believe? In the end you say experience is needed to say you know better than someone else, but you also say if a lot of people say something is true, then you'll also believe it's true. What if a lot of inexperienced people say something is true?

In any case, yes, you need experience, but time is not a reliable measure of experience. If you've spent 10 crappy years doing crappy things, then you've got crappy experience, worse than someone who's spent 5 years doing worthwhile things.


Annie Felis
keepn_it_mexy
yeah we know this, and so do they, you didnt have to write it all out for everyone e.o


Actually, he did. It needs to be mentioned often. We need to beat these animu morons over the head with it until they finally get it, because they really are insulting the artists who try hard and have been doing this for a long time. I only wish somebody had said it to me ten years ago.

This is another thing I can't identify with. I doubt people are going to change just because they came across a lengthy rant on the internet. 95% of them will just go tl;dr. It's extremely unlikely that the remaining 5% will learn from it.
I'll just quickly comment on what I think about this. That is, art in general.

Fair enough if people are ignorant and just copying other jobs. It is not right, of course. But I suffer from the belief that art, drawing, painting, whatever you do, do not have to be unique and fresh ideas only ... therefore. You start somewhere, a true artist develops his art and himself in the end. You have to start somewhere.

The point of art is surely find it fun. Everything we do should be thus.
Not to begrudge others that which does not harm to give.
As tutorials.
keiiii: Oh no no. I'm not saying they're right about what they're doing or believing. I'm just explaining how I assume they see these things. I wouldn't call it 'ignorance' or 'being rude' to older artists, it just simply seems very logical when you know as much as you do as a newbie.
If you don't understand why the nooblets act as they do, are you sure that the right way
to teach is to throw a fit and rage at them? Or are you only raging because it makes you feel better. Mind you, I'm not also questioning op's intentions, only his way of getting through them. Like you are.


- - And I believe in partial truths. I also believe in illusions, and humans who believe in things they want to believe. Mostly I don't see a truth as one sole truth, but just one thing amongst a lot of truths. But that... uh, probably makes even less sense. :P

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Onisfi


- - And I believe in partial truths. I also believe in illusions, and humans who believe in things they want to believe. Mostly I don't see a truth as one sole truth, but just one thing amongst a lot of truths. But that... uh, probably makes even less sense. :P
I get what you're saying. "There's your truth, my truth, and then THE truth which is usually somewhere in the middle"
Seijaku_Ishida
I get what you're saying. "There's your truth, my truth, and then THE truth which is usually somewhere in the middle"

Yes, exactly, thank you. :D

Keiiii:
ouch, and... I forgot to add that I do study from real life and anatomy with all the other jazz these days, because I had heard that studying from real life is an awsms thing (especially from good artists that I looked up to), so I gave it a try. No wonder if the message was messy.
And, I didn't mean the 10 years quite so literally, but... you probably get the point behind that.

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