Why would such a loving God...?

[Cattrain]

well, i am just going to say what the message at church was today...

you will reap what you sow... if you put your time into things of evil, you will get back nothing but descrucion and hardship...  

[Berezi]

cattrain

well, i am just going to say what the message at church was today...

you will reap what you sow... if you put your time into things of evil, you will get back nothing but descrucion and hardship...

Eternally, sure. But you've missed a good deal of the Psalms, then. Sometimes you get temporary prosperity if you do that. Even the Proverbs and other wisdom literature acknowledges that Folly at first is very alluring and sweet. It's deceptive, but there is a time in which it looks like it's the sweetest, best thing you've ever grabbed a hold of.  

[Xaerne Veirylle]

I would say:

God did not bring about suffering. Men did through sinning. And we must not think of suffering as a completely bad thing. We humans, having finite minds, cannot understand what is good for us as God does. We have to feel pain. It is as God is disciplining us. God warned us from the start to be obedient to him. He created us. He knows what is good for us. However, did we exactly listen: no. If we didn't listen to our parents when they said, "Don't touch the oven! It's hot!", we got burned. When we didn't listen to God, sin brought about suffering, but not through God's fault, for he cannot have one, as it is not our parents fault that the oven is hot. Well couldn't he just force us? No, it's called free will: freedom. He cannot take that from us because that is good, freedom is good. And what is the lack of good? Evil. We cannot lack freedom, as to take it away is evil, and as we know, God is not evil. Then what about the suffering of the innocent? So that they're eyes might be opened. So that they will turn to God and know that they are not enough, that they need God. The last proof that suffering is bad: look at a crucifix. There we see a suffering man. He was a good man, but he suffered so that sins might be forgiven. He is a God of justice and mercy. Justice makes suffering possible, but then mercy brings comfort to the suffering.  

[A Moment In Subtext]

I would say: "God gave us free will, and if we choose to do bad things, then bad things will happen to us. When we turn against God, we leave ourselves open to the Devil, and suseptible to his ploys. And then, bad things happen."  

[sunshinehearttrob]

the world cant always be nicey nice. thats just how it is. i mean that God is a clock-maker God. He controls things up to a certain point, then he hands the controler over to us. we control what happens from then on. therefore God didnt cause the suffering, we did.  

[RatTurd]

Because earth is where spirits learn lessons.

If you wanted peace, happiness and joy; you would stay in Heaven.

That is my opinion.  

[Medanite]

I think I'm going to post again on this subject, this time more elaborate:

The first thing to consider is whether such a thing as “the innocent” even exists. According to the Bible, “the heart is wicked and deceitful above all things” (Jeremiah 17:9), and “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Therefore, no one is innocent in the sense of being sinless. Sin entered the world when Adam and Even rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden, and mankind has been in rebellion ever since. Sin’s effects permeate everything, and the suffering we see all around us is a direct result of that sin.

But God did not leave us here to suffer pointlessly. Our loving and merciful God has a perfect plan to use that suffering to accomplish His threefold purpose. First, He uses pain and suffering to draw us to Himself so that we will cling to Him. Jesus said, “In the world you shall have tribulation” (John 16:33). Trials and distress are not something unusual in life; they are part of what it means to be human in a fallen world. In Christ we have an anchor that holds fast in all the storms of life, but if we never sail into those storms, how would we know that? It is in times of despair and sorrow that we reach out to Him, and, if we are His children, we always find Him there waiting to comfort and uphold us through it all. In this way, He proves His faithfulness to us and ensures that we will stay close to Him. An added benefit is that as we experience God’s comfort through trials, we are then able to comfort others in the same way (2 Corinthians 1:4).

Second, He proves to us that our faith is real through the suffering and pain that are inevitable in this life. How we respond to suffering is determined by the genuineness of our faith. Those with faith truly from God, “the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2), will not be crushed by suffering, but will come through the trial with their faith intact, having been “proven through fire” so that it “might be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:7). Those are the ones who do not shake their fists at God or question His goodness, but instead “count it all joy” (James 1:2), knowing that trials prove that they are truly the children of God. “Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him” (James 1:12).

Finally, God uses suffering to take our eyes off this world and put them on the next. The Bible continually exhorts us to not get caught up in the things of this world, but to look forward to the world to come. This world and all that is in it will pass away, but the kingdom of God is eternal. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), and those who would follow Him must not see the things of this life, both good and bad, as the end of the story. Even the sufferings we endure and which seem so terrible “are not worthy to be compared with the coming glory to be revealed in us” (Romans 8:1 cool .

Could God prevent all suffering? Of course. But He assures us that “all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:2 cool . So even suffering is part of the “all things” that God is using to accomplish His good purposes. His plan is perfect, His character is flawless, and those who trust Him will not be disappointed.  

[ElenaMason]

im going to throw in my two cents here even if its a bit repetitive of what everyone else has been saying here.

when i joined the Gaia Atheist Guild this was one of the exact arguments I got into and I'm going to quote some of the things I said to them.

Quote:

don't blame the guilt of mankind and his actions on god. this is my take on the whole "allowing it to happen" theory.

Without suffering in the world what the hell would we learn? If a child is to learn why they should not touch the fire and they are told not to but do anyway, they get burned and learn from that experience. but if the child is constantly saved, what is the child truly going to learn if they don't suffer a little.

the disease of aids is spread by mankind. the disease of STD's is spread because people can't keep their legs closed or their d**k in their pants.

there are rapists and child molesters etc etc because some people just choose to be that way or for whatever other reason. but we don't need god to stop this, we have whats called the Police. no not 100% of it can be stopped at once, but as they say "where there is light, there is always darkness" and the vice versa of that is just as true.

evil will always exist just as suffering will always exist.

god how many times do i have to say this.....suffering is caused by one of two things:

1)your own damn fault
2)the idiots around you

Example: Person A hates God because God didn't stop his father from abusing him. But lets look at the statistics here. Its not God's fault that the father is CHOOSING to be a complete d**k head and abuse his son. Its also not God's fault that the mother was STUPID ENOUGH to marry and MATE with a person like that and bare a son only to have the son be yet another victim.

In this example its not the boy's fault but the fault of the mother and father for his suffering. Not God's. And the example I gave is actually true of someone I know because they were ranting to me as to why they hated God etc etc.

Religiously speaking in christian logic, just because you THINK you need or want something now doesn't mean you're going to get it. Sometimes what we think is best for us isn't best at all for that particular place and time. In regards to praying and asking things from God, thats how that kicks in. God can see past present and future. Time is unlimited to him and he can see as far into the future as he wants. Regarding his plan individually for each of us, he knows the choices we would make and the consequences of that choice good or bad. So just because we want something, doesn't mean it might be the best thing for us.

So if I pray for like a million bucks right now, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be getting it any time soon or probably ever. I could also pray for the ability to fly like a bird, but that probably isn't going to happen for whatever reasons.

Its not as plain as simple as people make it out to be when it comes to God allowing suffering in the world.

Suffering helps us grow and makes us stronger for harder times to come, because guess what buddy, there is always going to be some type of suffering so get used to it. But the most important thing we learn from any suffering in general is the knowledge and experience we gain and the lesson we learn from that suffering. Sometimes the lesson to be learned isn't learned for many years. Sometimes we gain the knowledge right away. It all depends. In short, I'd rather suffer, then to be completely ignorant.

and when you think someone is suffering more than you? let me give another response i said in the debate

Quote:

If the suffering, whether it'd be physical or emotional, is enough to push you to as much as you can handle, to you're mental constraints, then I think we all suffer equally. Some can handle more than others, some can handle less than othres. But when it boils right down to it, I think we each suffer equally, each with our own hell. There is no "I suffer more than you..." No...I think its equal, just equal at the same levels but in different ways.

It's been proven scientifically that suffering is a completely individualistic thing and it all depends on your threshold of pain and how much pain you are experiencing. Really, I believe that all pain is unwanted, so nobody truly suffers "more" than any other, because it is just a feeling that is unwanted.

but ALWAYS ALWAYS keep in mind that you might likely not win the debate. and heres why. its one thing if you're trying to convince a fellow christian of these things regarding god, but trying to convince someone about something that they don't even believe in, most likely you won't be able to convince them because they don't believe in it to begin with.

trying to debate christian ideals with the ideals of atheists is like oil and water. you can try to argue logically, but since they don't even believe in god its kinda pointless anyway. and i learned that REAL fast when I joined, but all in good fun smile we learned a lot from each other on both sides and we still hold to our beliefs.

and the reason i usually try to continue a debate is 1)im defending my religion and 2)im usually VERY PASSIONATE on such things when trying to defend a religion lol cuz thats just who i am.

but be careful not to FORCE you're ideals on them either.  

[nightshade213126]

If you look at scripture this physical world is controlled by Satan. Look at our liberal media and liberal society. They have taken God and Christ out of everything. When Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness why would he have taken Christ to the mountain top, showed him all the kingdoms of the earth, and promised to give them to him if he would just bow down and worship him if it was not in his power to do it?
This society has even abolished the idea of Hell in there attempt to sanitize religion. Bad things happen to good people because good people do nothing to stop it. I praise my saviour when he blesses me and I praise him when he walks with me in the valley of pain.  

[ryokomayuka]

I think that because we learn from suffering. We gain wisdom and compassion. If thing never when wrong how would people grow?

Also because we have free will.  

[Tarantellatears]

There is suffering because God gave us free choice. It's our fault, not His. He gave his Son that we could have an escape from this, so that when we're suffering, we could have someone who's always faithful to lean on. Let me tell you something. When people suffer, God is there. He's trying to help you through it, even if you don't realize it. I know. If it hadn't been for God and his help, I'm about 98% sure I would have committed suicide when I was twelve. He's there, and I really believe He's suffering with us. He's loving because he doesn't leave us while we're suffering for the mistakes we made. God is just. We make our mistakes, we have to live with the consequences. he's not going to baby us, but he's not going to leave us alone when we're in pain either.  

[mazuac]

Well, first off, because through Adam's actions, Sin and death entered the Human race. Along with that we would be...

Blind
Deaf
Mute
Paralyzed
Immune to feeling
Emotionless
and, so on. Because all that causes suffering. So, you see, without suffering, we would just be like... I dunno... we wouldn't be around I guess. Alongn with that, if God were to come and save us EVERY time something wrong goes on, then we, as a species, would go crazy. People wouldn't care about how reckless there actions were, if they knew they would be saved. So... There's some of the many things you could say to your athiest friends. I know I said that to a few, and that shut em' up biggrin  

[lordstar]

The Noble Protoman.exe

Alright, I know I'm going to be real blatent here... But I've got several atheist and agnostic associates around me (mostly atheist) who use this argument against me all the time (even though I'm at school). Although I do not like to argue about why Chistianity is right, I do not appreciate it when people talk about my God like that. So here's the discussion...

Why would such a loving God allow so many people in the world to suffer.

My answer: "Well if you were God and you gave your people free will to decide if you were real or not, would you always intervene when they suffer?" Although this is bluntly put, I would have to make this a little nicer so people wouldn't be offended of course, but what would you say?

I like the reasoning given in "Conversations with God"
good book
must read  

[kuntrykid]

Tia_Valentine

All of the suffering in the world is caused by our sins and the evils from hell........but most of the suffering we endure is of our own doing.... neutral

God is extremely loving but you must understand that God is not responsible for fixing the problems we cause even if God has the power to do so...... neutral

By God allows us to deal with our own problems we learn to appreciating God and make better decisions.

Because if God did fix all of our problems and took away all of our suffering we wouldn't appreciate God at all.....Example: Adam and Eve they had everything given to them and they would have never died had they not committed that first sin and taken God's generosity for granted... neutral

If you believe that God is, in fact, all-powerful, then you must believe that God is the cause of all things whether we, as humans, consider them good or bad.

Humans have super-imposed this view of God as one who does all things we want. "Pray for whatever you want and you'll get it and, if you don't get it, you didn't pray long enough." That was one of the lessons taught at a church which I am, proudly, no longer a member of.

What is true is that God does only good to us... But true good is not as we humans perceive it, it is as God perceives and does. God, in himself, is good. We can never say that God made a mistake and wronged us because all decisions made by Him (and He makes all decisions) are good!

God works all things to good and our sole purpose is to glorify Him.

So, basically, what I'm trying to say is that God chooses for us to suffer for the cause of good and because it is a decision made by God, it is good.