should they teach about creation in school

[destiny.22]

Have you noticed that most schools teach us about evolution in science but they dont teach us anything about creation. why is that i wonder?? so do you think they should or shouldnt?  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Because evolution is a scientific theory, while creation is a religious one. It's pretty much as simple as that.  

[Stxitxchxes]

They do teach it, it's jut that unless you launch into a religious debate about how G-d created the world, there isn't much to teach. Every Science textbook I had when I was sitll in High School had a paragraph or two listing other possible theories on how things came to be.  

[zz1000zz]

Science is based off evidence, religion is based off faith. Schools exist to teach facts, therefore they should not teach religion.  

[Berezi]

zz1000zz

Science is based off evidence, religion is based off faith. Schools exist to teach facts, therefore they should not teach religion.

There is a place for teaching religions in school - like World Religions classes.

But you're right that any one of them should not be touted as fact.

I, however, think that the theory of intelligent design should be taught along side of evolution, just to kind of let students know that evolution is not the only theory.  

[Tarrou]

As has been pointed out, creation not being scientific, there's no reason to teach it in science class. Some hold out ID as a scientific alternative to evolution, but given that it's untestable, unfalsifiable, and essentially assumes the existence of a God, it's anything but scientific.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Berezi

I, however, think that the theory of intelligent design should be taught along side of evolution, just to kind of let students know that evolution is not the only theory.

Intelligent design is evolution. Just theistic evolution.  

[Tarrou]

Cometh The Inquisitor

Intelligent design is evolution. Just theistic evolution.

I suppose that's true if you define ID very broadly. However, my understanding of Intelligent Design is that it proposes what is essentially special creation, whereas theistic evolution generally holds that evolution is true, with the caveat that natural selection is not a naturalistic process, but rather one guided by God. That's a different kind of 'design' than what people like William Dembski mean when they talk about ID.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Tangled Up In Blue

I suppose that's true if you define ID very broadly. However, my understanding of Intelligent Design is that it proposes what is essentially special creation, whereas theistic evolution generally holds that evolution is true, with the caveat that natural selection is not a naturalistic process, but rather one guided by God. That's a different kind of 'design' than what people like William Dembski mean when they talk about ID.

But the point is that either of those definitions hold that God guided evolution to His plan (just as He tends to do with pretty much everything else). Thus, ID is evolution with God.  

[Berezi]

You all raise up a good point. I just want to bring up that half of it is more of a social thing, though....

Half of the controversy of evolution is a social/religious thing, not a science thing.

So, it seems to me like the social/religious side of the controversy deserves to be taken into account because that is really the plane many are fighting on.  

[Tarrou]

Berezi

So, it seems to me like the social/religious side of the controversy deserves to be taken into account because that is really the plane many are fighting on.

So why should a religious controversy be addressed in a science class? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to cover that topic in a different venue, like a social studies or a religions class?  

[Berezi]

Tangled Up In Blue

Berezi

So, it seems to me like the social/religious side of the controversy deserves to be taken into account because that is really the plane many are fighting on.

So why should a religious controversy be addressed in a science class? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to cover that topic in a different venue, like a social studies or a religions class?

Yes. I'm kind of...playing devil's advocate here.

I guess the thing is that the issue has become so very...entangled that it's impossible for many to separate the two. I am not one of those people.

The thing with ID is that it doesn't say which diety is behind it. So, I suppose for those people who are so afraid of the theory of evolution/the implications of it, if you're going to teach an alternate theory along with evolution, that might be a good choice. I also think that this might be the best way to satisfy both sides. Science shouldn't be upholding any one religion, it isn't fair to the students who don't believe in that one religion. But at the same point, science shouldn't be so easily used as a tool to deny that a diety exists, as that's not what science is for. In my mind, a good middle ground for the religion thing is ID. Teach it along side evolution and then we're good.  

[Tarrou]

Berezi

I guess the thing is that the issue has become so very...entangled that it's impossible for many to separate the two. I am not one of those people.

This is just one man's opinion, but as far as I'm concerned that is a problem for the people who can't separate the two, not for the schools. I suppose that some effort could be made to disentangle the social and scientific aspects of the debate, but a science class would still not be the place to do that.

Quote:

The thing with ID is that it doesn't say which diety is behind it. So, I suppose for those people who are so afraid of the theory of evolution/the implications of it, if you're going to teach an alternate theory along with evolution, that might be a good choice. I also think that this might be the best way to satisfy both sides. Science shouldn't be upholding any one religion, it isn't fair to the students who don't believe in that one religion. But at the same point, science shouldn't be so easily used as a tool to deny that a diety exists, as that's not what science is for. In my mind, a good middle ground for the religion thing is ID. Teach it along side evolution and then we're good.

The problem with ID, though, is that it posits a deity in the first place. God isn't a scientific concept, and any 'theory' that makes recourse to ideas of God has failed as science. As to your social concerns, if you're going to argue that ID is at least religiously neutral, then I have to disagree. It's very much at odds with any non-theistic understanding of the universe (such as my own, for example), meaning that it's not exactly fair to students who don't believe in any religion, or whose religion lacks a creator deity. On the other hand, evolution does not teach that God does not exist. As I've told many people, science has nothing to say about God; the fact that God isn't mentioned in science courses doesn't amount to a denial of God's existence, it's merely a statement that the idea of God is not germane to scientific inquiry. God's place in the universe is a question for philosophers and theologists, not scientists.  

[Berezi]

Tangled Up In Blue

This is just one man's opinion, but as far as I'm concerned that is a problem for the people who can't separate the two, not for the schools. I suppose that some effort could be made to disentangle the social and scientific aspects of the debate, but a science class would still not be the place to do that.

I agree, to be honest.

**still in the process of semi-devil's advocating, though**

Quote:

The problem with ID, though, is that it posits a deity in the first place. God isn't a scientific concept, and any 'theory' that makes recourse to ideas of God has failed as science. As to your social concerns, if you're going to argue that ID is at least religiously neutral, then I have to disagree. It's very much at odds with any non-theistic understanding of the universe (such as my own, for example), meaning that it's not exactly fair to students who don't believe in any religion, or whose religion lacks a creator deity. On the other hand, evolution does not teach that God does not exist. As I've told many people, science has nothing to say about God; the fact that God isn't mentioned in science courses doesn't amount to a denial of God's existence, it's merely a statement that the idea of God is not germane to scientific inquiry. God's place in the universe is a question for philosophers and theologists, not scientists.

And you're also right about how one should handle evolution. It doesn't preclude the existence of a diety.

And in truth, you're right that evolution is far more religiously neutral than ID is. There are so many people who don't believe that, though. Maybe it's just the area where I grew up in, but I haven't encountered many people who don't view evolution for what it is.

If it ever came down to people saying evolution can't be taught in schools any more, though, better ID than the creation story of any one religion.

If it ever gets to the point where people want some alternative (i.e. theories that are more explicit about a diety, because some people simply can't separate evolution from atheism) theories taught along side evolution, better ID than the creation story of any one religion.

If that makes sense.  

[SinfulGuillotine]

I'm inclined to agree with Blue on this topic.

Schools, unless they're private and religious, shouldn't bring up something that breaches the separation between Church and State. Evolution is really the only theory of creation that doesn't have to involve some kind of divine creator.

True, Intelligent Design doesn't spcifically state that the Judeo-Christian God is the creator, but it still requires the belief in some intelligent creator, which is a religious idea that shouldn't be discussed in a biology class.

Now, if a school had some kind of religions class, that would be an appropriate place to discuss the different ideas of how the world came to be, but in a sciene class, religious ideas shouldn't be taught.

If parents are horribly bothered by that, then they should probably look into sending their child to a Christian school.