Current Atheist

[Yami_Ichi]

Good day.

I am a current atheist and I am just here to have a discussion.

I just have a few questions, and this seems like a place where I can be respected like I respect others.

How can you fully believe in the existance of a God that you cannot see and have no solid proof of?

That is my one question.

I was a Christian at one time, but changed to an atheist. I am slightly agnostic, as well. Here is how I respond to such things as this:

People use the bible as a solid foundation for everything. How do you know that the bible is 100% true. For all anyone really knows, the bible could be a made up book that someone wrote at one time.

People also use things that have happened in their life as another solid. I have seen that when you believe something, your subconcious takes over and causes you to use God as a way to explain what you cannot with simple logic. You use God as a place holder for something you cannot explain.

I just want to hear what you all have to say. I am not here to bash you in any way, and I want to apologize if anything I have said or will say is going to offend any of you, that is not my intention at all in here.

If you feel the need to PM me, please feel free to do so. I am looking for a decent conversation, and if you need to do that in a PM, so be it.

 

[ElenaMason]

The fact of the matter is....we dont have proof other then the fact that there is physical existence of this so called "book" we call the bible.

Its been known that for years by hundreds of scholars and teachers and etc...etc.

So like God, we believe in the bible by faith because we can't prove that what the bibel says is true or real.......we only know (and believe) that god does not lie. and since the bible is HIS "word" we assume and believe it is also not a lie....for if i twas a lie then God would be a lie.

However not all foundations are based upon the bible. Eventually we all come up with our own idealisms and morals ASIDE from the christian faith. and eventually there will always be something in the bible that we will question.

For instance: abortion, homosexuality, predistination...all these things are questioned against the bible either as a pro or con.

For me personally, I see the bible as not only God's word, but as a guide to life.....things i should do, things i should avoid, and i still eventually come up with my own idealisms. But yes, 80-90% of my moral views are stemmed from biblical teachings. to me without god i am no more than a sinful creature that walks about on the earth only looking to please myself...and well others as well. To me, without God, it would be empty.

Even if i cant see him physically, experiences in my life would beg to differ. there are things in my life that im not sure if i could have gotten through without god, or in your case (a belief in a religion)


However....I must admit....if i didnt have the bible or knew of god, hte person i am today i think would have turned out the same for themost part. my morals....my views on things.....some of them would be different but for the most part i thin ki would still be the person i am today. we each develope our own personality and from that stems how we act, how we REact to things....see where im going with this?

so in a sense we dont entirely base all our actions from a book. the bible is more of a re-establishment of our beliefs and in most cases, a change in our beliefs.  

[Glorified Soul]

I must disagree with Xenos. I believe we DO have proof, but none that a nonChristian could understand. My proof is the living God whom I know is inside of me. I can feel Him. He is in my heart and my soul. He is the reason I am who I am.

You should read A Case for Creator. I think you'll find it helpful.

Aah, and welcome to Firefall.
: )  

[Yami_Ichi]

I think that it's great that you both have that belief.

I was a strong Christian before I turned atheist, and I feel no different then than I do now. People have told me that "it's because you were not as strong as you thought you were." That is a total lie. You wanted to find someone who could be a model christian, and I was your person. I had a bible verse to solve about everything in my life, I prayed constantly, and I believed whole-heartidly on what the Bible said.

But then, when I was about 14, I began to question a few things. I went to my father, one of the strongest chirstians you will find, and I asked him. He answered me with Bible verses, gave me books in the Bible to read, and all that sutff.

I listened to him, prayed about it, and nothing seemed to change; those doubts were still there in the back of my mind. "If my father can't seem to help, I'll go to my Pastor," I thought to myself. So, I called up my pastor and arranged a meeting to talk to him and see what he could do. He gavee the same of what my father did: chapters and verses to read.

"Why did they both do the same thing?" I asked myself as l left. I went home, reread what they had given me, meditated on it, prayed about it, and this went on for months on end. And yet, those doubts that I had were still in the back of my mind.

Everyone I asked after that gave me the same thing, but what I wanted was personal opinion on the matter. It seemed to me that they had no experience, no personal interest in what they were giving me. They were giving me what they had read when they had had the same doubts as I.

I saw that they did not have personal opinions, they seemed to be like robots when they would answer me. "I don't want to be like that... but I want to give this another try..." I scowered the Bible for answers, hoping that I could find somethng. Still, I found nothing and no one seemed to help me.

Slowly, I began to loose my faith, until it was gone.

That got me to where I am today. I am still a good person; my morals that I held when I was a Christian have not changed. I am still the same person I was, I just see things a bit different than I did.

And that one simple question I asked, "Can you give me examples of God in our lives?" That question changed me forever. No one could answer with their own lives, they used the lives of people in the Bible. They told me what happened in the past, not things that were happening to them.

I asked them after that, "Can you give me an example of God in YOUR life?" and they avoided it completley. They gave me no examples, simply told me to go home and read. Either that, or they would tell me, "There have been so many instances where I have seen His grace work in my life... I just can't seem to remember what He did to me..." How does that help? I was taught to use what He did in your life to teach others, and no one was doing that.

So, Christians turned me against their faith.

I just wanted to give you a little background on me in case you wanted to better understand what lead me to where I am today.

 

[Glorified Soul]

Have you read The Screwtape Letters? It's a book about Satan and how he tries to get in the way of Christ and His believers. It's very interesting, for even nonChristians. Try reading that.

When serious doubt and temptation arises in me, I know that it is Satan's work. I pray about it, and it usually helps. I'm sorry you didn't receive what you wanted from God when you prayed to Him. Everybody is given a cross to bear. Hopefully you can receive the answers you seek and discover what's best for you.

: )  

[Yami_Ichi]

I prayed my heart out to Him, and nothing happened. When I needed Him, he wasn't there for me. He didn't help me like He promised He would, and let me fall out of His religion.

 

[Glorified Soul]

Yami_Ichi

I prayed my heart out to Him, and nothing happened. When I needed Him, he wasn't there for me. He didn't help me like He promised He would, and let me fall out of His religion.

God doesn't work on our time, but I know it must have been/is hard. It's not wrong to question faith. It's how we grow. We just have to be open to learning.

I hope you find what's right for you. : )  

[ElenaMason]

Glorified Soul

Yami_Ichi

I prayed my heart out to Him, and nothing happened. When I needed Him, he wasn't there for me. He didn't help me like He promised He would, and let me fall out of His religion.

God doesn't work on our time, but I know it must have been/is hard. It's not wrong to question faith. It's how we grow. We just have to be open to learning.

I hope you find what's right for you. : )

shes right....there are things RIGHT NOW in my life i wish would come faster, but as a pastor once said during a preaching "we have to be patient with god".

of course not everything can be done by god, WE have to do part of the work as well.

and its not that god didnt do anything, maybe he did and you didnt know it. like for instance....the chances of you falling upon this guild. maybe your doubts ended up leading you here to where you might be finally able to get some answers.

i know EXACTLY whta you mean when people repeats things as if they were robots and were told to say such things instead of saying it from personal opinion. when i give advice, if they dont what a religious aspect to it....i wont give it to them. ill give them a straight asnwer the best i can.

my point being is.... whatever doubts you still have....PLEASE pm me and ill see what advice i can give you, unless you want to talk about it here and il be glad to answer any questions.  

[Yami_Ichi]

Basically how I came here, is I typed in "Christian" and looked at the first guild I saw.

I tried to hold onto my faith, and believe that He would show up. But once about a year and a half past, I started to loose it. I had it still for another year, and then after that two and a half year time frame, it was gone. It wasn't sudden, it was a gradual thing where I had questions that no one could answer.

 

[Tarrou]

So, a Christian apostate, eh? We don't see many of those in Fire Fall. Well, don't worry about offending anyone; the members are a fairly reasonable group--though one or two exceptions to that rule do crop up from time to time, and those ones would be more likely to offend you than vice-versa.

Anyway, your thread: I'm afraid I can't answer any of your questions. Firstly, I'm not a Christian. Never was, most likely never will be. Secondly, I'm loath to just throw answers at you. What would that achieve? What I will do is give you some advice (sure, you didn't ask for advice, but I'm giving it anyway).

You're in a pretty unique place right now, intellectually speaking. As far as intellectual prejudices go, you probably don't have many right now, so you can pretty much go any way you want from here. It doesn't seem that you've broken completely with Christianity (you say in your thread that you've largely kept your Christian morals), and it may not be necessary for you to do so in the future. Explore some of the other ideas about Christianity out there: Christian existentialism, liberal Christianity (which has different answers to some of the questions you're asking than do some of the more prominent sects), and religious humanism would be good places to start. Or you can go the opposite direction and dig deeper into atheism, freethought, and secular humanism. Your call. Whatever you do, I'd recommend reading some Spinoza.

You don't have to give up on Christianity just because you don't have all the answers you want right this moment. If it's been useful to you in the past, it may be worth digging around for some satisfactory answers to your theological concerns. On the other hand, if you don't think there's much left in Christianity for you, then there are many, many other schools of thought out there for you to explore. Either way, best of luck to you.  

[ElenaMason]

Yami_Ichi

Basically how I came here, is I typed in "Christian" and looked at the first guild I saw.

I tried to hold onto my faith, and believe that He would show up. But once about a year and a half past, I started to loose it. I had it still for another year, and then after that two and a half year time frame, it was gone. It wasn't sudden, it was a gradual thing where I had questions that no one could answer.

i dont think theres trully a question that cant be answered. just depends on who you ask if nothing else. what WERE those questions you had? i LOVE to give a wack at them. you never know what i might be able to tell you smile and if they're questions that you dotn want a religious answer too, i can give that too.  

[ElenaMason]

Tangled Up In Blue

You don't have to give up on Christianity just because you don't have all the answers you want right this moment. If it's been useful to you in the past, it may be worth digging around for some satisfactory answers to your theological concerns. On the other hand, if you don't think there's much left in Christianity for you, then there are many, many other schools of thought out there for you to explore. Either way, best of luck to you.

he's right you now. and may i add on the fact that....sometimes answeres we seek take YEARS before they come to us. not everything is instant. some things we just have to be patient for.

yeah you found this guild pretty easily....but things happen for a reason even if they're minor things.  

[Ginger Snapple]

Yami_Ichi

I prayed my heart out to Him, and nothing happened. When I needed Him, he wasn't there for me. He didn't help me like He promised He would, and let me fall out of His religion.

I always think of things in the way that, you have no clue how God is going to work something out. When we pray to God, most of us have a senario that we want God to follow. We want him to help us by doing exactly what we want, we forget that he has a plan. And so when things happen outside the boundaries we have set for the situation, we get angry with God. We think that he hasnt helped us, because he hasnt done as we wanted him to.
I think that when you start to have doubts in your heart and in your mind you have to seek help, if you really want help. When I started having problems with religion and I started having doubts and questions I couldnt answer, I asked other. I asked my pastor, I read the Bible, and I talked to other Christians. People helped me the most, because you may understand God one way and someone else might have a different perspective, a different opinion, or they might just have something to say that makes a lot of sense to you.
And I dont think God ever just lets someone fall away from him. He loves everyone but he also knows that everyone has a choice. Forcing you to stay with him and love him isnt love from God. God wants you to find your own way, and you have to live with the choices you make.
Atleast thats how I see things sweatdrop .
As for the Bible, mabye its not 100% accurate. The Bible is stories inspired by God. The stories were passed through many generations of family members until God inspired someone to write it down. I believe that many of the stories in the Bible are there to work as examples of how to understand your faith. Mabye Adam and Eve were never here? The point of the story was to show that we are sinful and we arnt perfect. Mabye Earth and the Galaxy wernt created in the 7 days we have right now, the point was that God is the one who created them.

I could give you examples of how I see God in my life.
He watches out for me, and thats where I see him most.

The other day a tire from a truck blew out right infront of my car as I was driving, I've only been driving for about 5 or 6 months but somehow I didnt freak out. I stopped and swung out of the way calmly and safely. Thats something thats very odd for me, I'm very jumpy and rash when things surprise me, but somehow some I gained some strength in that moment that helped see me through what could have been a bad accident.

One time I had a little boy on my shoulders and he dropped a basketball on my head. I totally forgot I was holding onto him and let go without thinking, but I caught him before anything could happen, just as he started to lean back.

In Biology I forgot that those knive-thingys (Scapals?) were sharp and I was drying one off and I ran my finger against the blade pretty hard. But I didnt hurt myself, I ended up peeling off some of my skin, but I could have cut myself really deep.

Mabye this stuff seems insignificant, and you might see it as just chance or that I'm a lucky person, but I think someone is always there behind me, helping me.  

[Glorified Soul]

I have some stories I can share, as Ginger did.

Before I was medicated, I had a really bad case of depression. I would come home from school, lock myself in my room, and cry for hours. One night I sat on my floor crying my heart out, begging God for some hope that could be happy, a sign that He was with me, I turned around on my bed, and there in the middle of the floor was a Christmas bag with an angel painted on it. That instant, I knew God was with me.

One night I was really tired, and went to bed with my diamond earings. I felt too lazy fatigued to get up and put them in their case, and so I put them on my night stand. The next day I looked on the nightstand and they weren't there. I checked the floor around my bed and found only one. I searched my whole room for the other. I even got a flashlight and looked under my bed. No luck. So I prayed to Jesus that I might find the other one. Something told me to pull my bed away from the wall so that I could get another look. I found the earing in the middle of where my bed hat sat above. It was sitting on this picture of Jesus that I had put under my bed while I had repainted my room (I just never took it out).  

[Ame Kuro]

To the person above me--
I am something...not sure what. I'm not Christian anymore though. I learned that material objects were not something to get used to. I lose things a lot and get a very similar feeling. That feeling leads me to my lost object. So what is guiding me?