BRAND NEW BANNERS AND BUTTONS! Choice is Power!

[S. Shark]

[gossamer]!smile.

You missed the point.
Saying pro-choicers are all feminists
is like saying all Germans are Nazis.
Not to equate feminists to Nazis.
No. I am pro-choice, but not a feminist.
I despise the hypocrisy of feminism.
It's supposed to be about equality,
but it wants female advancement.
i.e. Fixing all of the female's problems,
but turning a blind eye to the male's issues.
I am an equalist. No more, no less.
I think that if we're to be equal,
we have to solve everyone's problems.
Hence equal. Not femi, which means female.

Feminism has "femini[ne]" in it because the movement started when women had very, very few rights, and thus focused on advancing women. But that's just semantics.

You say feminists are all about female advancement, but if so, where are these feminists? About, oh, 99% of active members in this guild are feminist. The majority of us are pro-men's rights, and there is not a man-hater in the bunch as far I have seen. confused  

[[gossamer]!smile.]

sybex Shark

[gossamer]!smile.

You missed the point.
Saying pro-choicers are all feminists
is like saying all Germans are Nazis.
Not to equate feminists to Nazis.
No. I am pro-choice, but not a feminist.
I despise the hypocrisy of feminism.
It's supposed to be about equality,
but it wants female advancement.
i.e. Fixing all of the female's problems,
but turning a blind eye to the male's issues.
I am an equalist. No more, no less.
I think that if we're to be equal,
we have to solve everyone's problems.
Hence equal. Not femi, which means female.

Feminism has "femini[ne]" in it because the movement started when women had very, very few rights, and thus focused on advancing women. But that's just semantics.

That's my point.
Feminism is obsolete.
Equalism is a more correct term.
To say you're a feminist for men's rights
is like saying you're a conservative for abortion.

Quote:

You say feminists are all about female advancement, but if so, where are these feminists? About, oh, 99% of active members in this guild are feminist. The majority of us are pro-men's rights, and there is not a man-hater in the bunch as far I have seen. confused

Indifferent =/= hate.  

[Half Baked SF]

[gossamer]!smile.

To say you're a feminist for men's rights
is like saying you're a conservative for abortion.

Except there is a such thing as a pro-choice conservative.  

[S. Shark]

[gossamer]!smile.

That's my point.
Feminism is obsolete.
Equalism is a more correct term.
To say you're a feminist for men's rights
is like saying you're a conservative for abortion.

Um... no. It isn't.

1. Mistress Dragonflame, pretty much a regular around here, is a pro-choice conservative. It's quite possible. Believe it or not, not all conservatives suck. Hard to believe sometimes, but...
2. Again with the semantics, and not even an adequate comparison. To say you're a feminist for men's rights is more along the lines of a Democrat saying they're for a democratic-republic form of goverment. It's implied. And these aren't just "terms" we're talking here. These words have evolved, as language does, more often than it is forceably altered. They have intense historical meaning.

A question: if "feminism" is an obsolete word for equality, then is not "mankind" an obsolete word for humanity? "Mankind" doesn't even have that much historical value. It hasn't changed in forever. Should we not equalize other parts of our language?

Quote:

Indifferent =/= hate.

Nope, not indifferent, either. Pro-men's rights. I have seen pro-choicers jump down throats for misoandry. Most commonly, it's in debates about paternal responsiblity, and how men's reproductive choices are limited, if you'd like to search for them.

Not sure this is entirely relevant, but I recently observed that most of the feminists blogs I visit contain as many posts about racial discrimination and GLBT issues as they do women's issues. This seems to apply to the pro-choice guild's feminists as well. Seems rather unlikely to me that they'd be indifferent to men's rights.  

[[gossamer]!smile.]

Toga! Toga!

[gossamer]!smile.

To say you're a feminist for men's rights
is like saying you're a conservative for abortion.

Except there is a such thing as a pro-choice conservative.

You missed my point. Big time.

Let's break this down:
Being conservative doesn't require you to agree with abortion or be pro-abortion. So the pro-abortion part of the title is there because it's not included in the conservative prerequisets.

Being pro-male's rights is not a part of feminism. Feminism is for "the advancement of women". So when you say you're a feminist, that's all that's known. Like if someone just said they were conservative, the first thing you might think would be "Oh. He's against abortion".  

[[gossamer]!smile.]

sybex Shark

[gossamer]!smile.

That's my point.
Feminism is obsolete.
Equalism is a more correct term.
To say you're a feminist for men's rights
is like saying you're a conservative for abortion.

Um... no. It isn't.

1. Mistress Dragonflame, pretty much a regular around here, is a pro-choice conservative. It's quite possible. Believe it or not, not all conservatives suck. Hard to believe sometimes, but...

Look at my above post that explains.

Quote:

And these aren't just "terms" we're talking here. These words have evolved, as language does, more often than it is forceably altered. They have intense historical meaning.

Words don't evolve. Occasionally meanings evolve. But feminism if for female rights. Period. That's what feminism is about. Feminism. Equalism is about eqaulity of the sexes. See? Eqaul = Equality. Feminism = Female. You can't make a racial equality group called Africanism, or Whitism. Well, you could, but it would be seen as hypocritical unto itself. Which is what I think about the term feminism.

Just to clear this up:
I have nothing against what these acclaimed feminists (in truth they're equalists) do. They're doing what any equalist would do, and that's a good thing. I'm against the incorrect lable.

Quote:

A question: if "feminism" is an obsolete word for equality, then is not "mankind" an obsolete word for humanity?

Man. Human. Mankind. No, it's not obsolete. Though I have heard of a few protests against sexually biased words like that. (And like policeman, fireman, mailman etc. etc.)

Quote:

Nope, not indifferent, either. Pro-men's rights.

Then that makes you an equalist.

Quote:

I have seen pro-choicers jump down throats for misoandry.

I am not calling feminism misandry. I am saying that it is for female advancement. And that it is.

Quote:

Not sure this is entirely relevant, but I recently observed that most of the feminists blogs I visit contain as many posts about racial discrimination and GLBT issues as they do women's issues. This seems to apply to the pro-choice guild's feminists as well. Seems rather unlikely to me that they'd be indifferent to men's rights.

You said racial and GLBT. Not men. Riddle me this.

Why is it that I hear more about female problems than male, GLBT or racial issues out of feminists? Why is it that feminists seem to be doing more about female problems than the other people's problems? If feminism an equality group, should they not do things equally? Or are they just more interested in female issues? (And if they are, then that is what feminism is about. Female advancement).  

[S. Shark]

[gossamer]!smile.

Words don't evolve. Occasionally meanings evolve. But feminism if for female rights. Period. That's what feminism is about. Feminism. Equalism is about eqaulity of the sexes. See? Eqaul = Equality. Feminism = Female. You can't make a racial equality group called Africanism, or Whitism. Well, you could, but it would be seen as hypocritical unto itself. Which is what I think about the term feminism.

Just to clear this up:
I have nothing against what these acclaimed feminists (in truth they're equalists) do. They're doing what any equalist would do, and that's a good thing. I'm against the incorrect lable.

This seems like your basic point, so I'm going to focus in on this.

You're against the label? It's just the name that bothers you? I suppose the importance of the name just is going over my head, because what I'm thinking is that if the ideals of the feminism are the exact same as those of equalism (pretty true, except feminism is specific to equality of the sexes), then why does it matter?

I'll say it again since 'ya cut it off: saying feminism is an obsolete term for equalism is like telling the Democrats* or Republicans their names are obsolete because neither are for true republican or democratic government. They're for the same thing, a democratic-republic form of government. Do the names make sense? Not anymore. Are they going to change the names? Probably not in the near future.

I guess to sum it up, this is my point: on the off chance the civil rights movement had been called Africanism, yeah, I'd still support it. If it were called whitism... well, still yes. It'd be quite an odd name, since there wouldn't be any logical reason to it as whites were not the ones being oppressed based on their race, but...

*Technically the Democratic Republican party, but they still call themselves Democrats, so close enough.

*And my apologies about the conservative--abortion, feminist--men's rights. Seemed an insinuation that conservatives can't be for abortion, since that's a common stereotype. That's also why I assumed you meant feminism = misandry. Apologies for that as well.  

[Half Baked SF]

 

[Brittney_____Pinkjizz89]

juss something i made...hehe
you can use if you'd like heart

 

[ChatOmbre]

Thank you!
I like these MUCH better than the "we care. we abort." ones -- because this way it does not sound like we want to abort all the time, this way it's clear that we support the right to choose (but are not all "zomg keel teh babehz!!!11"). 3nodding heart lol  

[Taxidermy Queen]

what does anyone think of this
button?

 

[S. Shark]

pilli.the.sheep

what does anyone think of this
button?

I like it! It's all flashy and... cool. xd  

[AspergersKitty]

Anybody who wants this pic can use it (not very flashy, sorry)
 

[MipsyKitten]

 

[crystal_pepzi]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a Banner but I've had so many messages asking if this pic can be used that I thought it may be a good idea to post it up here.

Feel free to change the image or whatever. It's the message that's important, not the pic. : )