(( Straight up AIM discussion log, putting it here because recording things. As always tw because its mostly just discussing relationships/sexuality. You've been warned as always.))

Lawr: -warning Rodney off of coming into contact with him- I wouldn’t do that. I don’t know how contagious this is, and if it will get worse.
Rodney: It’s alright. I told you before, I wasn’t afraid. Even if it did spread, I’ll never have children. Also like I told you.
Lawr: Like but your /family/. Your person you wanted to end up with. Just because the breeding project is all there is now, that doesn’t mean it’s all there will ever be.
Rodney: That person doesn’t exist, it can never happen. I wish I was straight. But I’m not. That’s all there is.
Lawr: Then if I was female all the time, this would be easier.
Rodney: No, because if you were female, then I wouldn’t be… -covering his face with one hand- Attracted.
Lawr: Exactly, that’s what I mean. I would be repulsive.
Rodney: Repulsive is a little strong.
Lawr: It would remove whatever tension there is. Though I admit I cannot comprehend why gender has a bearing on anything. It seems so..flexible. I enjoy being female.
Rodney: It just is. It’s what it says. Biblically. There isn’t any getting around it.
Lawr: Oh. The bible. That makes sense I suppose. Literal interpretations of vague paragraphs.
Rodney: And, I…wanted to. For a very long time. To be attracted that way. But thinking about it…I’m not. I can’t. I don’t. It’s like thinking of…a desk. Or a chair. Instead of….sex.
Lawr: I could probably ******** a desk.
Rodney: Well. .____. Something you know, not.
Lawr: I suppose for me it’s always like sleeping with a desk or a chair. It’s just a thing. It is somewhat reassuring to know that even if I was a woman you would not find me attractive and I wouldn’t have a chance in that scenario either. It means I don’t need to regret not meeting you while I was in persona. It is just something that can not and will not happen. Your commitment to celibacy in the wake of a lack of sexual attraction is truly insurmountable.
Rodney: Y-yes. I wish it were vague paragraphs. It’s…it’s pretty clear, I thought. Punishment by execution early on. And that…we were made male and female for…finding our partners, and that…people who do without repentance won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Those…all those verses.
Lawr: I’ve never considered any of that clear. Gender in adam and eve was simply a statement of the dimorphic nature of man as an animal. And the excecution parts were all old testament which the new testament essentially retconned when they weren’t at war with whatever they were at war with.
Lawr: /shrug
Lawr: But if the fire and brimstone’s your favourite stuff that’s fine. I enjoy a bit of fire and brimstone in my literature.
Rodney: It’s not my favorite.
Lawr: It obviously is if you value it over all the chapters and chapters talking about love and that being important. And treating people as you want to be treated and whatever else. But that’s fine, people are allowed their favourites and ha ha from what I’ve seen they like to pick and choose their favourites to support what they like to support. I’m always surprised there isn’t an anti-shellfish militant movement, or people petitioning to ban pork entirely.
Rodney: No! I think…of course love is important. I don’t value it over that. I…don’t eat shellfish. …Or pork. But, that’s for different reasons, Paul said in Corinthians all food was clean.
Lawr: Yes I know you are literally the definition of the perfect old testament man I know. This nonsense just frustrates me frankly. Believe whatever you like. Nothing I say will alter it obviously so I will not waste my time discussing it.
Rodney: I wish it was different. And that I was different. But…Alright.
baneful: Lawr: No. You don't. You just don’t.
Rodney: It’s…about what’s the right thing. It’s not about what I want or don’t want.
Lawr: How do /you/ know what the right thing is?
Rodney: I read. And pray for guidance.
Lawr: Who gave you the judgement and the right to tell that? Those are just words. How do you know it isn’t metaphor? How do you know it isn’t veiled and shaded lies? Do you know what its LIKE Never knowing if anything is a metaphor, without any idea what the “right” thing is? And to hear someone over and over again saying that they KNOW. But feeling in a twisting deep and visceral way that they are WRONG, and its one of the ONLY THINGS you’ve EVER felt like that about? No, you obviously don’t know what its like.
Rodney: I don’t know. But I can’t act against conscience, when it doesn’t feel right and when I…abstaining isn’t the wrong thing, if you’re doing it to honor God. That’s…that’s the right reason. But, to not abstain…that has to be for God too.
Lawr: Does it feel right? Is that why you are always so HAPPY. So /at peace/> I bet you feel like a basket of flowers inside.
Rodney: That’s different.
Lawr: Ever think maybe that CONSTANT sadness and misery is someone telling you you are thinking the wrong things and doing the wrong things? HOW? How is it DIFFERENT?
Rodney: It’s because I had the wrong things done to me. And people are always doing the wrong things to others.
Lawr: You have taught me of all things, how to feel ashamed of myself. And that is all.
Rodney: I don’t want to hurt people, and I don’t want people hurt.
Lawr: And given me hope for things which I should NEVER have been given hope over. You should have left me where you found me rather than dragging me into the spiral of self pity and immobility you inhabit. You don’t /care/ about anyone, you are probably the most arrogant person I’ve ever met.
Rodney: Shame is a light burden to bear. Shame is empathy, shame is some small part of what your actions have, sometimes irreparably, done to other people, and to yourself. I grieve over a lot of things, but I don’t grieve for that.
Lawr: Yes, you wouldn’t. I bet if I killed myself you’d be fine with that too. Because shame is such a light burden to bear.
Rodney: No, never. More destruction can’t pay for or fix what’s been destroyed.
Lawr: More mystical platitudes. Maybe it can. It does more than inaction. At least its something, at least its effort and intention.
Rodney: The only thing that helps is building.
Lawr: /shakes his head- Before I met you I was happy. Or at least I was ignorant and that was the same thing. And now you’ve dragged me down but to a place where you are and will always be MORE than me. Always outrank me and best me. It’s like dealing with Leif again. Just a nicer, yet infinitely more destructive version of my brother.
Rodney: You said you weren’t happy before either.
Lawr: I wasn’t but it was better. I could do whatever I want. I could be as horrible as I wanted. And there wasn’t ANYONE who I wanted in any way who was out of my reach. Even America at this point is more attainable than you. At least she doesn’t dismiss my gender. Nor would it make a difference if I was female.
Rodney: It’s easier. Destruction is easier. But it’s the wrong choice.
Lawr: You don’t know anything.
Rodney: Small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Lawr: I’m realising more and more that you don’t know anything about anything, you are just a sheltered fool who hides behind a book. And looks down on people using it. Like Dawson.
Rodney: I don’t look down on Dawson.
Lawr: Maybe they find it because they don’t just blindly take the book verbatim. Oh YES of course you don’t look down on DAWSON. NO ONE DOES. Everyone has to look UP to dawson Just like you. You go on and on about how we should be friends without the need for sex. And I have NOT ONCE had sex with you so. And yet time and time again you manage to injure me and cause me harm and bring me to harm. I don’t know if those are the actions of a friend.
Rodney: You can blame me for it if you want.
Lawr: Again with the trying to twist it back into guilt. I can and will blame you for it because it was a direct result of you. You told me that it was somehow possible to make amends for what happened or at least to move forward.
Rodney: Why is responsibility so abhorrent to you?
Lawr: And all that happened was they took my /future/ away.
Rodney: It was. It is.
Lawr: It isn't. It’s /over/. It was always over. When I was born the way I am the hope for redemption was gone. I’m something that shouldn’t exist, something /missed/, something flawed and incorrect in god’s little plan and something that will be the spanner in the works of creation.
Rodney: It’s not true. You were made within creation. You were made with gifts and a purpose.
Lawr: No. I wasn’t. And I laugh in the face of someone trying to tell me that who wants to rot and die alone without ever doing anything about it. : At least I know what I am.
Rodney: I don’t want you to be alone.
Lawr: Well I am. I was born alone and I will almost certainly die alone, probably at the bottom of the ocean. Maybe your bible will say that is the “right” thing somewhere too, so you can justify it just like you justify yourself being alone. I’m not arguing any longer about this. It’s a waste of time.
Rodney: I’m not alone.
Lawr: Oh right you have god. Great. I’m going out.
Rodney: And Sorrow. And you, I thought. …Okay.
Lawr: You /have/ me in the same way everyone else does, as someone who tries to be what you want. And whom you will twist and hurt if they try to be themselves.
Rodney: I’ve only been myself with you.
Lawr: Yes, and that self is utterly perfect. You just cry when I’m myself around you. You cry and you get scared. So I stop. So I just am soft and nice and whatever I think you will like. And I stay longer than judgement says I should and I just end up hurt. I should have walked away at the start of this conversation rather than at the end.
Rodney: You always walk away, and it doesn’t get you closer. You just end up away.
Lawr: Away in my own company where there is no one trying to teach me that I should hate myself, that I am fundamentally unlovable, that I have given away irretrievable parts of myself to all and sundry, that I am flawed, broken and that I am only barely but possibly a human. You know, compared to that my own company sounds /just fine/.
Rodney: You are human.
Lawr: Maybe if you /ever/ had anything nice to teach.
Rodney: That’s the most important part.
Lawr: Maybe then but you don’t. Its never nice. Its never happy. It’s always just dismal and hopeless and bleak And I haven’t got time for that.
Rodney: You have to accept responsibility for your actions. And for your mistakes. Being flawed, or broken…that’s all part of it. But there’s hope too. There’s…there’s peace, and forgiveness waiting for those actions and mistakes.
Lawr: I don’t believe in heaven, so none of that means anything. All you are selling is suffering and I ain’t buying.
Rodney: We don’t really get a choice when it comes to suffering. I didn’t choose to have what was done to me done. And you didn’t choose either. But there are things we can choose, like whether we live our lives increasing the suffering and misery of others, or if we help them mend and build what’s been destroyed. The peace and forgiveness that’s offered is now.
Lawr: I was willing to be whatever you wanted. I /could/ have and would have given you the all important monogamy you wanted, I could have given you what passed for a home and the action form of love you care about. But nothing isn’t good enough for you, all the milestones are there to keep you away from it. You don’t want me, I don’t know what you want /from/ me and I realise that I don’t have you here, you have me here.
Rodney: …I know you could. And I do want you. And…I want you to find those things. But it can’t be me. Why does it have to be me?
Lawr: Everyone I care about doesn’t want me and I’ve yet to understand why.
Rodney: -croaking- I’ve told you, it’s not about wanting.
Lawr: Yes ok. Its about the bible saying because we both are men we can’t have happiness. Fine. Have a nice night. I’ve got lampshades to put up.
Rodney: Y-yes, mainly. It’s as if you said, wouldn’t you like to be rich? Then why not rob a bank? It’s…illegal. You’d just….end up going to jail, and not be rich either.
Lawr: Oh great so sex with me is equivalent of robbery, essentially rape. Wonderful. Forget it. Just forget it.
Rodney: It’d…still be hurting you. You can have a wife. I…can’t.
Lawr: /baffled look - When I say wife I mean a partner. I don’t care what genitals they have. I’m sterile now what does it matter at all? I can have a wife in that context, if you mean a Maja then no, I can’t. I had that, it didn’t work, it wasn’t for me. I’m done arguing this though, I have a house, it needs work. It was just cleared as habitable, I am going to live there. There will be extra rooms, you are welcome obviously. Or you can go off and find a home with someone useful.
Rodney:…A house?
Lawr: Yes.
Rodney: -looking at the floor- I’m…coming with you. Wherever. As long as I’m welcome.
Lawr: Well you are obviously. Just keep the guilt to a minimum, I’m not in the mood to be told what a terrible person I am for having sex while I am feeling like this.
Rodney: -sighing- Yes, alright.
Lawr: If you wanted to incentivise me to stay home rather than going looking for Horace. You’d masturbate again. But that’s probably blackmail. So never mind.
Rodney: -turning red- I…what? I thought it was…just making you more frustrated.
Lawr: Frustration can be dealt with you know, I do have a hand.
Rodney: So, I’ve tried not too. Since I know…-fidgeting- how difficult everything’s been for you.
Lawr: But low level aimless frustration well that’s harder to resolve and involves help, imagery and so on. Sex is easiest for that. The frustration is not /low level/ when you are involved.
Rodney: -thinking it is mostly on his behalf, because he has himself been on the pent up and miserable side- W-well. Yes. It’d be a relief for me, frankly. I thought…like I said, it was only to help you.
Lawr: Well it was a gesture with its heart in the right place. But no, not when it would enable me to ..deal with things from the sanctity of my own home.
Rodney: Why did you say that time, that you could smell? …Me.
Lawr: Because I can. Butch ..heightens that particular sense considerably. The air smells different, there’s a musk to it.
Rodney: -a little distraught over this- Does it, can everyone…? Oh. …Oh, because, yes. Well. Okay.
Lawr: Not everyone no. Your privacy is safe.
Rodney: Okay. Um, would you mind if I…came to see the house, sometime?
Lawr: I suppose. It’s nothing fancy right now.