Battle System revamp and discussion thread

[Raven Rahl]

As promised, the adjustments to the battle thread are open for discussion and voting by all guild members, no matter the standing. Everyone is allowed to put out any battle system they wish tested and all will be considered. All will be treated with respect and all comments will be supportive, even if the idea is turned down. While I do love my system (aside from the needed changes), if someone else puts out a system that everyone agrees is better and easier to use, then by all means, we'll use that one instead. I just want what's best for the guild as a whole.

That being said, here is the current system:
Current Battle System  

[Nia Phoenix]

well..most of it works pretty well...though as we decided defensive need some work..if you think of it..at least from a Jedi standpoint...and I'm sure the Sith are the same...all trainees study at every Temple and learn all aspects..they just choose a specialty..where they are the strongest, so it would naturally follow that all can fight and heal.

I agree with scuttles comment that the heal roll should have better odds - it's near impossible to get a heal  

[Wonyky]

I thought I would bring this up. This is a Abridged edition of the battle system that I am making which is based off of Rahl's.

Quote:

The Abridged Version

Health:
100
(health cannot go above 100)

Combat Styles:

High style: +5 attack and -1 initiative

Balanced style: +2 attack and +1 initiative

Low Style: Has a +2 initiative. Basically meaning that every time you roll the dice, you add 2 to the total. So lets say you roll a 8 sided die and you roll a 4. That 4 then goes up to a 6. So it increases your chance to attack.

(You can change combat styles during combat; however, you cannot attack in the post where you are changing combat styles. So choose one that you will use for the entirety of the battle)

Damage and dice:

weak (6-sided) 1-2=miss, 3-6=hit 10HP damage
medium( 8-sided) 1-4=miss, 5-8=hit 15HP damage
strong( 12-sided) 1-9=miss, 10-12=hit 20HP damage

Healing:

Everyone heals by 15HP for every post that they make while outside of combat. (exceptions can be made for those that aren't super active inside the rp or have been away for a few days or more.)

Instead of classes, I base everything on fighting styles that everyone can use. But if it is to be used, some major changes would have to be made. Like levels for instance. But if anything, its a good base. That I recommend we use to make the original better.

Now onto the actual combat system. Rahl, I think its fine, I only request that defensive gets like a weak attack or something... Why? Well its hard for a psychopath to go crazy if the only thing he can do is counter. So basically I feel that it can effect story. Since basically the person that chooses defensive combat style can't innate combat, which leaves the class at the mercy of everyone that can attack. On Voss, for every post that me and Nia went back and forth talking, I really just wanted to attack her. Vic didn't want to have an idle chit chat, he wanted a devastating battle between two people that could result in death. But not really, Vic needs to suffer more. Then he dies.  

[Tamwyn_the_Mage]

I think wonkey is on to something here. I've looked over your combat system a few times and have to agree, if you choose defensive strategies you are pretty much screwed. While those aspects of the current system are unique and offer combat options I have neither considered, nor experienced in my table-top or forum based RP experiences, they are a bit too confining. The ability to "swap" styles (without having to wait to attack) is something I can support.

On the same token, I would suggest allowing for two (and only two) combat related actions per turn. This would allow some semblance of "attack combos" and just more options over all in combat.
For example, if a sith and jedi are fighting, and the sith starts the attack with a swift flurry of slashes, the jedi can choose to either try to defend or evade them, or simply take the damage and attack back. It adds even more options when you consider failed attacks. So if the sith kept his flurry of attacks up for two rounds, but failed on his attacks in round 3 of the combat, the jedi (who was simply blocking and deflecting the attacks the last two rounds) can now attack with a flurry of his own. D'nD has many flaws, but the "two primary actions per round of combat" is something I have come to respect.

However I disagree with wonkey in the fact I believe the current health system should stay the same. If you think about it, the more experienced members would usually have better augments, training or protective gear/wards to effectively give them more health then their lesser counterparts. Similar to a seasoned space marine to a fresh recruit in Warhammer 40,000. They actually grow larger and stronger over the years...so the older one can (depending on the chapter and gene-seed) be noticeably taller and beefier then his freshly inducted battle brother.

In a like manner, elite gear and armor are not going to be wasted on a fresh clone trooper, they are given to the seasoned veteran who has proven they are worth keeping alive, and have the knowledge and experience to use it most effectively.

Jedi masters are protected better then the padawans, not because they value themselves as more important individuals, but because the knowledge and experiences they have are vital to the order as a whole.

The elitist Sith masters DO value themselves as more important individuals then their dark-force wielding acolytes, and protect themselves better then their "expendable" lessors. But then again, the elitist Sith are a bunch of a** holes, so that's to be expected. xp

So in the end, more rank equals more health. At least that's how I've come to understand it.  

[scuttlefish]

Ooh I've been itching to post in this since I saw it but never had the chance last night. gonk

I'm trying to find some of the posts I made in the "IT'S WAR" thread, but I'll hold off until after my classes before tracking that down and posting the details of my ideas.
For now this is what I was trying to say in a nutshell.
I recall Alias pointing something out that defensive's counter seems wholly unfair, and it is! Being able to negate all incoming damage is huge enough without being able to counterattack. Thus I propose that instead of all ranks being able to absorb 100% of all incoming damage, the percentage of damage absorbed is dependent on one's rank, like the counter-damage dealt. I did post some ideas in the thread which I will edit into this post later.
Also Defensive's heal is grossly unbalanced. Not only is defensive able to negate all incoming damage, a defensive user would be able to heal to full quite easily in a matter of turns, with the ridiculous odds that the heal has of succeeding. I don't think Rahl liked the idea at the time but perhaps you could consider again my idea of revamping balanced "special" into being something other than a watered-down version of defensive's heal. A balanced fighter has to roll a nat 100 just to get the same heal that a defensive fighter has a 50% chance of landing...
And critical hits, we need critical hits! Maybe not with the d4, but definitely if a nat 8 or nat 12 is rolled.
One last thing, actually I'm not sure if this was my original idea or not (I'm thinking it was Tom's idea) is to give non-Force users a chance to heal as well, I mean they had kolto packs, it would have made sense. I'm also going to be bold and say that non-Force users should also have more combat styles to choose from, maybe have different class styles to choose from like a "bounty hunter" class or a "sniper" class usw.

I've not gotten the chance to fully read over Wonyky and Tam's posts yet but from what I've gleaned so far, I am against the idea of changing combat styles in battle and I will explain later. For now, it's off to class for me!  

[scuttlefish]

Actually it wasn't too hard to find my posts, I'll post it here real quick even though they're in serious need of editing.

My suggestion for a new healing system that would work for both defensive and balanced:

Roll a d100. 1-50 miss, 51-75 heals 25% of HP, 76-99 heals 50% of HP, nat 100 heals 75% of HP.

Or we just take away balanced's heal and give them an entirely new special:

Steadfast Resolve
-Roll a die depending on rank (D25 for apprentice/journeyer, D50 for Saber/Ranger, D75 for Lord/Master, D100 for High Lord/Temple Master). Hit your opponent for as much damage as the roll lands unless it is countered. ONLY USABLE ONCE (twice for higher ranks) PER BATTLE.  

[Raven Rahl]

One thing I am sticking with and not budging on, is the ranks. Like Tam says, in pretty much every genre of fighting, there are more experienced and therefore harder to kill opponents and it really wouldn't make sense if a padawan were to be able to walk up to me and beat me being the Dark Lord of the Sith and all, it's meant to be nearly impossible for a bottom rank to beat a top rank without help. I know you were talking about levels, Wonyky, so we'd have to elaborate on it and integrate it into a ranking system with different HP for different ranks. That being said, I like the idea of initiative and I think that may be just the thing we need to help balance the fighting styles out (I play the Star Wars minis game a lot which uses initiative). Of course everything is going to be tested before we choose something.

Tam, the two combat actions per turn is not something I'm familiar with, but it sounds very promising. I'd like to try and fit it in when we test.

Scuttle, of course you're right about the defensive, and as we saw with Wonyky, we know whole-heartedly that the defensive (or low style that Wonyky put forward) needs an attack. I saw that mistake I made shortly after we started the Battle of Voss. Regardless of the system we settle on, everyone will be able to initiate an attack.

Man, I love the ideas we're getting so far! Great work! Where should I put the battle test thread so everyone can find it easily? In here, the RP subforum, or the games subforum?  

[Raven Rahl]

BTW Scuttle, the only dice you have to choose from are 4s, 6s, 8s, 10s, 12s, 20s, or 100s.

I just realized that gaia really needs to make it to where you can roll like one of each in one post instead of only being able to roll one type at a time.  

[Ryokuzen Shadowstealer]

My only idea so far, and it'll probably get shot down in seconds, is rather than rolling a die to counter merely give them an attack but make it so that attacks deal less damage.
For example a Temple Master, if they roll a successful D20 hits for 100 but if they were to fight a defence character they would hit for 90, or even 80?
Would make playing defence always give some actual benefit.  

[Raven Rahl]

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

My only idea so far, and it'll probably get shot down in seconds, is rather than rolling a die to counter merely give them an attack but make it so that attacks deal less damage.
For example a Temple Master, if they roll a successful D20 hits for 100 but if they were to fight a defence character they would hit for 90, or even 80?
Would make playing defence always give some actual benefit.

So the damage dealt is not so much dependent on the die you roll, but also on who you're rolling against. It might get a little complicated, but it's definitely a viable option to look into.

Oh and I forgot to say earlier, but I like the idea of critical hits, I had been thinking about adding them for a while now.  

[scuttlefish]

Raven Rahl

BTW Scuttle, the only dice you have to choose from are 4s, 6s, 8s, 10s, 12s, 20s, or 100s.

I just realized that gaia really needs to make it to where you can roll like one of each in one post instead of only being able to roll one type at a time.

Did I say dice? I meant to say to use the number generator.  

[scuttlefish]

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

My only idea so far, and it'll probably get shot down in seconds, is rather than rolling a die to counter merely give them an attack but make it so that attacks deal less damage.
For example a Temple Master, if they roll a successful D20 hits for 100 but if they were to fight a defence character they would hit for 90, or even 80?
Would make playing defence always give some actual benefit.

I actually really like this idea, as I was saying earlier I think defensive should be able to absorb a certain percentage of incoming damage rather than negate all of it completely. But it would still give defensive the advantage if they have the same attacks as the other two systems, and if they keep their heal.  

[Ryokuzen Shadowstealer]

scuttlefish

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

My only idea so far, and it'll probably get shot down in seconds, is rather than rolling a die to counter merely give them an attack but make it so that attacks deal less damage.
For example a Temple Master, if they roll a successful D20 hits for 100 but if they were to fight a defence character they would hit for 90, or even 80?
Would make playing defence always give some actual benefit.

I actually really like this idea, as I was saying earlier I think defensive should be able to absorb a certain percentage of incoming damage rather than negate all of it completely. But it would still give defensive the advantage if they have the same attacks as the other two systems, and if they keep their heal.

Honestly I think the heal should be universal (For all classes), should only have 1 use per battle and the amount healed should depend on rank. If defensive have no heavy attack that would better balance it out.  

[scuttlefish]

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

scuttlefish

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

My only idea so far, and it'll probably get shot down in seconds, is rather than rolling a die to counter merely give them an attack but make it so that attacks deal less damage.
For example a Temple Master, if they roll a successful D20 hits for 100 but if they were to fight a defence character they would hit for 90, or even 80?
Would make playing defence always give some actual benefit.

I actually really like this idea, as I was saying earlier I think defensive should be able to absorb a certain percentage of incoming damage rather than negate all of it completely. But it would still give defensive the advantage if they have the same attacks as the other two systems, and if they keep their heal.

Honestly I think the heal should be universal (For all classes), should only have 1 use per battle and the amount healed should depend on rank. If defensive have no heavy attack that would better balance it out.

I don't think taking away heavy would balance it out tbh. I think it would be better to scale down the amount of damage defensive deals instead.  

[Ryokuzen Shadowstealer]

scuttlefish

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

scuttlefish

Ryokuzen Shadowstealer

My only idea so far, and it'll probably get shot down in seconds, is rather than rolling a die to counter merely give them an attack but make it so that attacks deal less damage.
For example a Temple Master, if they roll a successful D20 hits for 100 but if they were to fight a defence character they would hit for 90, or even 80?
Would make playing defence always give some actual benefit.

I actually really like this idea, as I was saying earlier I think defensive should be able to absorb a certain percentage of incoming damage rather than negate all of it completely. But it would still give defensive the advantage if they have the same attacks as the other two systems, and if they keep their heal.

Honestly I think the heal should be universal (For all classes), should only have 1 use per battle and the amount healed should depend on rank. If defensive have no heavy attack that would better balance it out.

I don't think taking away heavy would balance it out tbh. I think it would be better to scale down the amount of damage defensive deals instead.

That's kinda what I meant...Deal less damage but take less too. The essence of most tanks in pretty much any game.