"The Time of the Doctor" Discussion

[Luthien Padme]

Warning: This thread contains spoilers for "The Day of the Doctor" (duh). So if you've not seen it yet, shoo!


OH. MY. GOD! I figured out long ago it was the Silence (the cult, not the species) who blew up the TARDIS... but that THAT was the other dimension Gallifrey ended up in.. MOFFAT!!! Brilliant! And now we really know what Dorium Malivar meant when he said "On the fields of Trenzalore at the fall of the Eleventh where no man can speak falsely or fail to answer, a question will be asked..." We now fully know, no one is capable of lying on the fields of Trenzalore. He literally meant that. Also, it was epic seeing how the cult that became the Silence was officially formed. They didn't have an idea of what would happen, they knew what would happen if the Doctor answered the question. While honestly I did prefer their plot being concluded in The Name of the Doctor and the theories that they knew his name would open his grave and the whole fiasco with the Great Intelligence would happen, that turning out to be not what they were trying to prevent did work out nicely, and they still seem to have a motive of good--They don't want the Time War to be unleashed upon the universe again, which still holds Dorium's point that they don't necessarily want him dead, they just don't want him to "remain alive".

Also, his initial falling to old age both nods to Dorium's statement in "The Wedding of River Song" that "time catches up with us all, Doctor," to which the Doctor replies "well it never has laid a glove on me!", as well as a nod to Hartnell (who after all got this whole party started!) and his regeneration due to weariness and old age. While One's regeneration looking back seems like an easy way out, to explaining something totally knew that never had been done before, they made it work brilliantly for 11.

Also, FISH FINGERS AND CUSTARD. AND AMELIA!  

[doctoriceandfire natsu]

you forgot the part when the church lady sayed "they had make a tolal soath to kill you" and the doctor says"tollaly marryed her" he was awesome. and at the endwith amy wow just wow and by by raggy man crying  

[wolf_with_a_dragon]

Well, I'm glad at least two people liked it. I found it enjoyable as just a little stand-alone episode that isn't canon with the rest of the show. But seeing as to how it is canon, there were a bunch of things I found to be a lil hard to swallow and raised some questions.

1.)why the heck didn't Clara die when she clinged onto the TARDIS like Jack did when he experienced the exact same thing?! What makes her so freakin' special?!

2.)how did the regeneration energy become such an epic weapon of mass destruction?!

3.)Last I checked the TARDIS constrols were isometric, how did the church lady manage to fly it!? Did the Doctor manage to find a way to change that or was Moffat just like "nope, I don't like that. I'm changing that now"" (I'm letting River Song flying it slide since she was born inside the TARDIS and supposedly it taught her how to fly it).

4.)how did the Time Lords move the crack?

5.)well seeing as to how the Time Lords obviously knew he was the Doctor why didn't they send a person or two to help instead of just an extra regeneration?

6.)not sure how the policing of regenerations works, so I'm going off an assumption that with no Time Lords there is no one to police the Doctor so why couldn't he simply say "F*** you guys I'm regenerating anyways!"

7.)seeing as to how Smith was indeed the thirteenth regeneration...what happened to the Valeyard?

There's a couple more problems I had but I can't think of them right now.


And now that all the negativity is out of the way. I did enjoy the first half of the episode very much. Especially where is shows a senile old doctor with a cane being a total badass and how Moffat managed to write his way around Matt having to shave his head. I also LOVED the cyberhead companion. Awesome! And Smith being completely naked in front of Clara's family! xd and I like the way super old Smith acted when he got his extra regeneration.  

[wolf_with_a_dragon]

Well, I'm glad at least two people liked it. I found it enjoyable as just a little stand-alone episode that isn't canon with the rest of the show. But seeing as to how it is canon, there were a bunch of things I found to be a lil hard to swallow and raised some questions.

1.)why the heck didn't Clara die when she clinged onto the TARDIS like Jack did when he experienced the exact same thing?! What makes her so freakin' special?!

2.)how did the regeneration energy become such an epic weapon of mass destruction?!

3.)Last I checked the TARDIS constrols were isometric, how did the church lady manage to fly it!? Did the Doctor manage to find a way to change that or was Moffat just like "nope, I don't like that. I'm changing that now"" (I'm letting River Song flying it slide since she was born inside the TARDIS and supposedly it taught her how to fly it).

4.)how did the Time Lords move the crack?

5.)well seeing as to how the Time Lords obviously knew he was the Doctor why didn't they send a person or two to help instead of just an extra regeneration?

6.)not sure how the policing of regenerations works, so I'm going off an assumption that with no Time Lords there is no one to police the Doctor so why couldn't he simply say "F*** you guys I'm regenerating anyways!"

7.)seeing as to how Smith was indeed the thirteenth regeneration...what happened to the Valeyard?

There's a couple more problems I had but I can't think of them right now.


And now that all the negativity is out of the way. I did enjoy the first half of the episode very much. Especially where is shows a senile old doctor with a cane being a total badass and how Moffat managed to write his way around Matt having to shave his head. I also LOVED the cyberhead companion. Awesome! And Smith being completely naked in front of Clara's family! xd and I like the way super old Smith acted when he got his extra regeneration.  

[DiscordWhovian]

I was surprised at how fast the regeneration was. Good episode over all though they never explained why the Doctor was aging. Capaldi didn't get much screen time at the end. I have no idea how Clara survived.  

[silversonic1]

wolf_with_a_dragon

Well, I'm glad at least two people liked it. I found it enjoyable as just a little stand-alone episode that isn't canon with the rest of the show. But seeing as to how it is canon, there were a bunch of things I found to be a lil hard to swallow and raised some questions.

1.)why the heck didn't Clara die when she clinged onto the TARDIS like Jack did when he experienced the exact same thing?! What makes her so freakin' special?!

2.)how did the regeneration energy become such an epic weapon of mass destruction?!

3.)Last I checked the TARDIS constrols were isometric, how did the church lady manage to fly it!? Did the Doctor manage to find a way to change that or was Moffat just like "nope, I don't like that. I'm changing that now"" (I'm letting River Song flying it slide since she was born inside the TARDIS and supposedly it taught her how to fly it).

4.)how did the Time Lords move the crack?

5.)well seeing as to how the Time Lords obviously knew he was the Doctor why didn't they send a person or two to help instead of just an extra regeneration?

6.)not sure how the policing of regenerations works, so I'm going off an assumption that with no Time Lords there is no one to police the Doctor so why couldn't he simply say "F*** you guys I'm regenerating anyways!"

7.)seeing as to how Smith was indeed the thirteenth regeneration...what happened to the Valeyard?

There's a couple more problems I had but I can't think of them right now.


And now that all the negativity is out of the way. I did enjoy the first half of the episode very much. Especially where is shows a senile old doctor with a cane being a total badass and how Moffat managed to write his way around Matt having to shave his head. I also LOVED the cyberhead companion. Awesome! And Smith being completely naked in front of Clara's family! xd and I like the way super old Smith acted when he got his extra regeneration.

1. She is the Impossible Girl, for starters. She survived having herself shredded through all of time. Who's to say time doesn't like her? Secondly, the TARDIS was TRYING to get rid of Jack. It's possible that because it didn't want Clara dead that it didn't go full force, but also safely delivered her to the time that SHE knew Clara was needed. After all the TARDIS knows the Doctor's future because its consciousness is aware of her whole existence, not just the past and present. This was demonstrated in The Doctor's Wife when she lets slip just how many control rooms she has archived.
2. This is not the first time that regeneration energy has been shown as dangerous. It is simply the most dangerous example of its power. It is possible that even while regenerating, a time lord can control the energy and how the excess is released. Previous demonstrations show a strain on the one regenerating. However, the 11th Doctor shows no signs of strain once the process begins.
3. The Doctor lies. The controls are not isomorphic, as just about all of his companions since the show was revived have taken a turn at the TARDIS controls.
4. They made the cracks in the first place. They are Time Lords. They can move planets, stars and time itself. They can move where they ripped reality whenever they want. After all, dimensional travel is nothing when they are around.
5. Because he's the Doctor. He is the most qualified to handle any situation. But more importantly, by sending anybody through, the time war would have begun anew. For their own sakes, they had to butt out.
6. There are many theories, but from what was shown it is clear that Time Lords are born with a certain amount of regenerative energy(River Song, for example). This energy can be used to heal one's self or other Time Lords. However, it is actually the triggering of regeneration that appears to be limited (except when attempting to revive the dead, as was how River lost her remaining regenerations). It is interesting to note that the Doctor did have some regenerative energy in order to heal River's wrist. Also he did bring up regeneration as an option when poisoned. However, this may have been info written before the War Doctor was ever conceived.
7. The Valeyard met the same fate as other of the Doctor's possible futures. If you follow quantum physics, than you know that all possible decisions play out in alternate quantum realities. When you add time travel, you can have a person travel from his present to the past, force a different decision and rewrite the future into a different branch of reality. That is exactly what the Valeyard did. He forced the Doctor down a different branch of time and space where the Valeyard never came to be, protecting the Doctor from one of many bad futures. And by originating in a parallel time, there was no paradox. The quantum realities continue to exist even though the one traveling through time altered events in the past.  

[silversonic1]

DiscordWhovian

I was surprised at how fast the regeneration was. Good episode over all though they never explained why the Doctor was aging. Capaldi didn't get much screen time at the end. I have no idea how Clara survived.

The form change was quick, yes. But remember that the Doctor did say he was "breaking in" his new regeneration cycle. It is possible that he mentally managed to hold back the change after the initial start of the regeneration, causing his delerium and making the form change happen quicker.
But it is also possible that the Time Lords have revised the regeneration process too, making it less likely for a Time Lord to fall while regenerating. After all, they needed every advantage to fight in the war.
But lastly, the Doctor had been aging since before he lost Amy and Rory. Thus his need for her glasses. However he did seem to be aging at an accelerated rate of his normal. This may simply have been due to the fact that his constant fighting drained him, much like the War Doctor.  

[MISTER SM1TH]

silversonic1

wolf_with_a_dragon

Well, I'm glad at least two people liked it. I found it enjoyable as just a little stand-alone episode that isn't canon with the rest of the show. But seeing as to how it is canon, there were a bunch of things I found to be a lil hard to swallow and raised some questions.

1.)why the heck didn't Clara die when she clinged onto the TARDIS like Jack did when he experienced the exact same thing?! What makes her so freakin' special?!

2.)how did the regeneration energy become such an epic weapon of mass destruction?!

3.)Last I checked the TARDIS constrols were isometric, how did the church lady manage to fly it!? Did the Doctor manage to find a way to change that or was Moffat just like "nope, I don't like that. I'm changing that now"" (I'm letting River Song flying it slide since she was born inside the TARDIS and supposedly it taught her how to fly it).

4.)how did the Time Lords move the crack?

5.)well seeing as to how the Time Lords obviously knew he was the Doctor why didn't they send a person or two to help instead of just an extra regeneration?

6.)not sure how the policing of regenerations works, so I'm going off an assumption that with no Time Lords there is no one to police the Doctor so why couldn't he simply say "F*** you guys I'm regenerating anyways!"

7.)seeing as to how Smith was indeed the thirteenth regeneration...what happened to the Valeyard?

There's a couple more problems I had but I can't think of them right now.


And now that all the negativity is out of the way. I did enjoy the first half of the episode very much. Especially where is shows a senile old doctor with a cane being a total badass and how Moffat managed to write his way around Matt having to shave his head. I also LOVED the cyberhead companion. Awesome! And Smith being completely naked in front of Clara's family! xd and I like the way super old Smith acted when he got his extra regeneration.

1. She is the Impossible Girl, for starters. She survived having herself shredded through all of time. Who's to say time doesn't like her? Secondly, the TARDIS was TRYING to get rid of Jack. It's possible that because it didn't want Clara dead that it didn't go full force, but also safely delivered her to the time that SHE knew Clara was needed. After all the TARDIS knows the Doctor's future because its consciousness is aware of her whole existence, not just the past and present. This was demonstrated in The Doctor's Wife when she lets slip just how many control rooms she has archived.
2. This is not the first time that regeneration energy has been shown as dangerous. It is simply the most dangerous example of its power. It is possible that even while regenerating, a time lord can control the energy and how the excess is released. Previous demonstrations show a strain on the one regenerating. However, the 11th Doctor shows no signs of strain once the process begins.
3. The Doctor lies. The controls are not isomorphic, as just about all of his companions since the show was revived have taken a turn at the TARDIS controls.
4. They made the cracks in the first place. They are Time Lords. They can move planets, stars and time itself. They can move where they ripped reality whenever they want. After all, dimensional travel is nothing when they are around.
5. Because he's the Doctor. He is the most qualified to handle any situation. But more importantly, by sending anybody through, the time war would have begun anew. For their own sakes, they had to butt out.
6. There are many theories, but from what was shown it is clear that Time Lords are born with a certain amount of regenerative energy(River Song, for example). This energy can be used to heal one's self or other Time Lords. However, it is actually the triggering of regeneration that appears to be limited (except when attempting to revive the dead, as was how River lost her remaining regenerations). It is interesting to note that the Doctor did have some regenerative energy in order to heal River's wrist. Also he did bring up regeneration as an option when poisoned. However, this may have been info written before the War Doctor was ever conceived.
7. The Valeyard met the same fate as other of the Doctor's possible futures. If you follow quantum physics, than you know that all possible decisions play out in alternate quantum realities. When you add time travel, you can have a person travel from his present to the past, force a different decision and rewrite the future into a different branch of reality. That is exactly what the Valeyard did. He forced the Doctor down a different branch of time and space where the Valeyard never came to be, protecting the Doctor from one of many bad futures. And by originating in a parallel time, there was no paradox. The quantum realities continue to exist even though the one traveling through time altered events in the past.

Just to add some additional details~

1) You also have to consider what the Doctor said in the episode. "No wonder she took so long- she had her protective fields extended, dragging you along." That's not word for word, but my point is- the Tardis began actively protecting Clara once she/it realized Clara was attached. Where as with Jack, the Tardis was either trying to get rid of him, or knew that he would survive the journey (it is a sentient machine hooked up directly to the time vortex, after all- it's said several times that the Tardis has a lot of knowledge); or both..

2) Yep, it's been said to be and shown to be dangerous at several points. It packs a punch. Though I think they went a bit flashier than necessary. lol

5) It could also be that they flat out couldn't. Maybe with whatever predicament they're in on their side, it would be impractical to send people or craft through the tear as opposed to floating energy.
Maybe they couldn't send that kind of physical matter without risking absolute destruction of Trenzalore/the Doctor, and then having to deal with the ensuing war that you mentioned.