******** WHINING

[Munkers]

This is sorta in reference to Phaedra's new ED thread about tampering with birth control, but also partially a fed-up "I am goddamn tired of this bullshit" rant.

WHY are men so bent out of shape that they don't get to have abortions? No... really. I'm ******** serious when I say that all I can see is a bunch of men whining and crying about how those ebil women can have abortions but they can't and boo-freaking-hoo they want a magic surgical procedure that makes parental responsibility go away too.

I hate to break it to you guys, but abortion is not about parenting. Abortion is an issue of autonomy and bodily domain. Don't like that women "have more outs" than you do? Then keep your d**k out of her. You are fully aware of how the system works and if you don't like it then don't chance it. Isn't that how you deal with women anyway? "Well then just don't do it."

Child support is NOT a punitive measure. It is in place as an attempt to support the health and well-being of a young child who is wholly dependent upon an adult for all of his or her needs. Parenting a child is costly and I'm not just talking about in financial terms. If you really hate the system so much, then petition the court to abolish your parental rights. Don't have a local statute that allows you to drop financial rights along with parental rights? Then start lobbying your local government for it.

Women have already worked for what we have. We have abortion access because we've FOUGHT for it. Doesn't feel so good for the shoe to be on the other foot, does it?  

[[Ernie]]

Agreed 100%. My favorite is when they say it's "reverse sexism." Yeah...no. Having to give up a monthly payment for a kid for which you haven't waived your parental rights =/= institutional, age-old marginalization of women that has led directly to their deaths and destruction of their well-being.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

The topic is here, by the way, in case anyone was interested:
Extended Discussion | Birth Control Sabotage

I can kind of see their point but when they say or suggest that being forced to pay child support is like being forced to give birth to a child all of my sympathy for them goes out the window. No. Your wallet isn't the same as her body.

And the whole "she's having a kid just to make me pay child support" thing is bullshit. It's kind of like "but I don't think women should use abortion as birth control". Women aren't that stupid. I'm sure a few idiots have done it, yeah, but it's not some vast female conspiracy that happens all the time.

I can see how I would be pissed if I had to pay for a child I didn't want. But like you said, it's not supposed to be a punishment. It's so that the woman will be able to take care of the child. There should be a better system than that, I agree, but I'm sick of men acting like it's some way of antagonizing or oppressing them.

What I really can't stand in that thread, though, is the assertion that impregnating yourself by lying or messing with birth control is the same as impregnating someone else with it. But for some reason, I can't get that through some people's heads. Someone using your sperm without your permission is not. as. ********. bad. as someone altering your body without your permission. It's horrible, but you're not being physically violated.

It makes my blood boil. gonk  

[Munkers]

I actually have replies waiting for me in the thread that I haven't had the heart to go read yet because a certain someone keeps wanting to jump up and down about how everyone is doing it wrong and doesn't understand anything about the law or legal proceedings, but he sure as s**t isn't doing much to clear up the "confusion." *headdesk*


Still want someone to explain to me how we protect against legitimate contraceptive failure if we're going to actually pursue this abomination of a law they're proposing.  

[Jaaten Syric]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

I can kind of see their point but when they say or suggest that being forced to pay child support is like being forced to give birth to a child all of my sympathy for them goes out the window. No. Your wallet isn't the same as her body.

I've given up trying with most of the idiots I've encountered. It's one of the reasons why I haven't posted in your thread, I no longer have the patience to tell idiots that the cost of child support is not ******** equivalent to pregnancy and child-rearing (The price of child support for a man making the median income for my state is roughly 7.00 per day, the last time I made that point I was mocked for my phrasing but oddly, none of the anti-abortion crowd thought it worth addressing directly). I can't say this line of argument pisses me off as much as it does you lot but every time I see it made it does make me want to punch my gender, collectively, in the neck; Sorry, but as the ladies have said, there is a massive, yawning chasm between your pocketbook and her body. Shut the ******** up and deal. If you want to advance causes like 'financial abortions' I'm completely okay with that but arguing that men are equally affected by abortion is insulting and worthy of intense derision.  

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

Munkers

I actually have replies waiting for me in the thread that I haven't had the heart to go read yet because a certain someone keeps wanting to jump up and down about how everyone is doing it wrong and doesn't understand anything about the law or legal proceedings, but he sure as s**t isn't doing much to clear up the "confusion." *headdesk*

Hey, that's the same someone who tried to tell me that impregnating yourself (sans sperm-producer's permission) is the same crime as impregnating someone else!

Yeah... that's why I haven't posted or even looked at the thread for a couple days now. rofl You're not alone.

Jaaten Syric

I've given up trying with most of the idiots I've encountered. It's one of the reasons why I haven't posted in your thread, I no longer have the patience to tell idiots that the cost of child support is not ******** equivalent to pregnancy and child-rearing (The price of child support for a man making the median income for my state is roughly 7.00 per day, the last time I made that point I was mocked for my phrasing but oddly, none of the anti-abortion crowd thought it worth addressing directly).

Ooh. Can you source that? I feel like it might come in handy.

Quote:

I can't say this line of argument pisses me off as much as it does you lot but every time I see it made it does make me want to punch my gender, collectively, in the neck; Sorry, but as the ladies have said, there is a massive, yawning chasm between your pocketbook and her body. Shut the ******** up and deal. If you want to advance causes like 'financial abortions' I'm completely okay with that but arguing that men are equally affected by abortion is insulting and worthy of intense derision.

Exactly!  

[Jaaten Syric]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

Ooh. Can you source that? I feel like it might come in handy.

Sure. The median income for my state is/was about $17,000/year. I don't remember the exact values I ran for an 'average' citizen but just zeroing out all fields except for monthly income leaves you paying $222.00/mo. (I remember it being roughly the same if they pay more-or less equal amounts for everything listed. To put this is perspective, the projected child support amount this calculator gives if the custodial parent has no income is 262/mo. Roughly $8.75/day.)  

[mMelatonin]

Hum, I suppose if they can whine about that I should starting whining about how I'm not naturally stronger or taller. Biology isn't fair, it's just something we all have to accept. Since women have to actually physically carry the fetus and experience all the emotions directly related to it/hormones, it's ultimately their decision whether to continue a pregnancy or not. Do I like this system? Of course not. Do I respect women that "trap" their men via pregnancy? Hell no, but unfortunately that doesn't shift the biological unbalance.  

[_Morgane Fay_]

Individual 171192

Hum, I suppose if they can whine about that I should starting whining about how I'm not naturally stronger or taller. Biology isn't fair, it's just something we all have to accept.

Heh. Try mentioning that and they'll accuse feminists of wanting "special rights" and "double standards" and "secretly liking chivalry" faster than the speed of light. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT, DAMMIT!
/wryness.  

[mMelatonin]

_Morgane Fay_

Individual 171192

Hum, I suppose if they can whine about that I should starting whining about how I'm not naturally stronger or taller. Biology isn't fair, it's just something we all have to accept.

Heh. Try mentioning that and they'll accuse feminists of wanting "special rights" and "double standards" and "secretly liking chivalry" faster than the speed of light. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT, DAMMIT!
/wryness.

Haha, physiological differences should always dictate how we act socially and lead to someone being punched in the face, duh! That's the point I was trying to make!