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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:17 pm
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
Magic is not good or evil. Magic does not have color that corresponds with it. There is no white, black, blue, red or green magic. (In Final Fantasy there are ~__^) What makes it "good" or "bad" is what the intent of the user is. If the user wants to heal people it's "good" if the user wants to maim someone then it's "bad".


Now by looking at the Bible, I would say that the term witchcraft is used for the unknown. Back then if you used science or was interested in the unknown it was dubbed witchcraft. Because people back then had a lack of understanding that of which is the unknown. Same goes for now. Now if the apostles came to our time and saw you using that nifty little computer, ipod, cell phone, etc. They would call those nifty technological devices, objects of witchcraft, and call you a witch and would more than likely stone you. smilies/icon_biggrin.gif


The thing is, all magic falls under the category of 'not from God' and thus, not good.

From a non-Christian perspective, I can see what your saying though.

As a side note, God grants power too. I kind of wonder what the requirements for it are sometimes.
All things come from God. God is the creator of both good and evil. God is absoulte and nature comes from God. The magic that pagans used is nature based. Magic in itself doesn't have an attribute, it's not good nor is it evil on it's own. What gives it's attribute is when someone uses it. Take a gun for example. On it's own, the gun isn't good or evil nor is it harmful. When someone uses it does it become good, evil or harmful. The attribute of that gun is dependent of the intent of the person using it. Same with religion. Same with Christianity.


The main use of a gun is to inflict harm on something, no matter what.

The thing with nature magic from my perspective is that it is based in this world, and not in God.

God is the source of everything, yes, but I don't think that everything flows directly from God. In my opinion, power that is good comes directly from God.  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:24 am
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
Magic is not good or evil. Magic does not have color that corresponds with it. There is no white, black, blue, red or green magic. (In Final Fantasy there are ~__^) What makes it "good" or "bad" is what the intent of the user is. If the user wants to heal people it's "good" if the user wants to maim someone then it's "bad".


Now by looking at the Bible, I would say that the term witchcraft is used for the unknown. Back then if you used science or was interested in the unknown it was dubbed witchcraft. Because people back then had a lack of understanding that of which is the unknown. Same goes for now. Now if the apostles came to our time and saw you using that nifty little computer, ipod, cell phone, etc. They would call those nifty technological devices, objects of witchcraft, and call you a witch and would more than likely stone you. smilies/icon_biggrin.gif


The thing is, all magic falls under the category of 'not from God' and thus, not good.

From a non-Christian perspective, I can see what your saying though.

As a side note, God grants power too. I kind of wonder what the requirements for it are sometimes.
All things come from God. God is the creator of both good and evil. God is absoulte and nature comes from God. The magic that pagans used is nature based. Magic in itself doesn't have an attribute, it's not good nor is it evil on it's own. What gives it's attribute is when someone uses it. Take a gun for example. On it's own, the gun isn't good or evil nor is it harmful. When someone uses it does it become good, evil or harmful. The attribute of that gun is dependent of the intent of the person using it. Same with religion. Same with Christianity.


The main use of a gun is to inflict harm on something, no matter what.

The thing with nature magic from my perspective is that it is based in this world, and not in God.

God is the source of everything, yes, but I don't think that everything flows directly from God. In my opinion, power that is good comes directly from God.


But, again, God created the source of that power, if it exists. If a human were to use it, and for evil, it would be the actions of the human and not the actions of the magic itself.  

divineseraph

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ShideKnight

ShideKnight's avatar

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:21 pm
divineseraph Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
Magic is not good or evil. Magic does not have color that corresponds with it. There is no white, black, blue, red or green magic. (In Final Fantasy there are ~__^) What makes it "good" or "bad" is what the intent of the user is. If the user wants to heal people it's "good" if the user wants to maim someone then it's "bad".


Now by looking at the Bible, I would say that the term witchcraft is used for the unknown. Back then if you used science or was interested in the unknown it was dubbed witchcraft. Because people back then had a lack of understanding that of which is the unknown. Same goes for now. Now if the apostles came to our time and saw you using that nifty little computer, ipod, cell phone, etc. They would call those nifty technological devices, objects of witchcraft, and call you a witch and would more than likely stone you. smilies/icon_biggrin.gif


The thing is, all magic falls under the category of 'not from God' and thus, not good.

From a non-Christian perspective, I can see what your saying though.

As a side note, God grants power too. I kind of wonder what the requirements for it are sometimes.
All things come from God. God is the creator of both good and evil. God is absoulte and nature comes from God. The magic that pagans used is nature based. Magic in itself doesn't have an attribute, it's not good nor is it evil on it's own. What gives it's attribute is when someone uses it. Take a gun for example. On it's own, the gun isn't good or evil nor is it harmful. When someone uses it does it become good, evil or harmful. The attribute of that gun is dependent of the intent of the person using it. Same with religion. Same with Christianity.


The main use of a gun is to inflict harm on something, no matter what.

The thing with nature magic from my perspective is that it is based in this world, and not in God.

God is the source of everything, yes, but I don't think that everything flows directly from God. In my opinion, power that is good comes directly from God.


But, again, God created the source of that power, if it exists. If a human were to use it, and for evil, it would be the actions of the human and not the actions of the magic itself.


Well, as I understand, the thing is that any power that does not come directly from God gets filtered through eaither the world (which was cursed with Adam and Eve) or the devil.  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
There are two types of "Magic". Prestedigitation, or "sleight of Hand" and Witchcraft.

The first, Sleight of Hand, is just that. Optical illusions and cheap card tricks. Not real, although some of the things they cause to appear as real can actually be caused by demons. I'd avoid the bigger tricks just to be sure, but cute card tricks and pulling a quarter out from behind someone's ear is alright.

The second, Witchcraft, is obviously evil and should be avoided at all costs.

Why?

The bible tells christians to "avoid the very appearance of evil." If it looks like something evil, avoid it. That includes Harry Potter. If you told someone in the lobby that you were a christian, then they see you going to watch Harry Potter, wouldn't that make you look like a lying hypocrite? It certainly doesn't make you look like a saved child of God!

(btw, reply however you like. I don't often return to topics like this after posting. Helps me avoid anyone trying to start flame wars. ^w^ )  

Aquiella

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ShideKnight

ShideKnight's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:54 pm
So, how far does "the very appearance of evil" go?

I mean, it sounds like that could cover a huge portion of modern culture.  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:02 am
ShideKnight Wrote:
divineseraph Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
Magic is not good or evil. Magic does not have color that corresponds with it. There is no white, black, blue, red or green magic. (In Final Fantasy there are ~__^) What makes it "good" or "bad" is what the intent of the user is. If the user wants to heal people it's "good" if the user wants to maim someone then it's "bad".


Now by looking at the Bible, I would say that the term witchcraft is used for the unknown. Back then if you used science or was interested in the unknown it was dubbed witchcraft. Because people back then had a lack of understanding that of which is the unknown. Same goes for now. Now if the apostles came to our time and saw you using that nifty little computer, ipod, cell phone, etc. They would call those nifty technological devices, objects of witchcraft, and call you a witch and would more than likely stone you. smilies/icon_biggrin.gif


The thing is, all magic falls under the category of 'not from God' and thus, not good.

From a non-Christian perspective, I can see what your saying though.

As a side note, God grants power too. I kind of wonder what the requirements for it are sometimes.
All things come from God. God is the creator of both good and evil. God is absoulte and nature comes from God. The magic that pagans used is nature based. Magic in itself doesn't have an attribute, it's not good nor is it evil on it's own. What gives it's attribute is when someone uses it. Take a gun for example. On it's own, the gun isn't good or evil nor is it harmful. When someone uses it does it become good, evil or harmful. The attribute of that gun is dependent of the intent of the person using it. Same with religion. Same with Christianity.


The main use of a gun is to inflict harm on something, no matter what.

The thing with nature magic from my perspective is that it is based in this world, and not in God.

God is the source of everything, yes, but I don't think that everything flows directly from God. In my opinion, power that is good comes directly from God.


But, again, God created the source of that power, if it exists. If a human were to use it, and for evil, it would be the actions of the human and not the actions of the magic itself.


Well, as I understand, the thing is that any power that does not come directly from God gets filtered through eaither the world (which was cursed with Adam and Eve) or the devil.


I think that, if we follow Big Bang style thinking, there was at one point a unity, one thing. And from that one thing, ALL things came. It can be corrupted and distorted in this lowest of low dimensions (Malkhut) into curses or evil or wars or whatever, but through science and kabbalah both, all things came from the single force.  

divineseraph

divineseraph's avatar


Aquiella

Aquiella's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:03 am
(XD ok I checked back. Curiosity got the better of me. And I like the last poster's viewpoint when posting questions! ^_^)

Exactly! Most of modern culture looks evil because most of modern culture IS evil, or influenced by something of evil origin.

But that's to be expected. It's the Last Days. It's SUPPOSED to be that way. Otherwise, how can God come back and save us from a wicked world? E3


Think of it this way. If it looks like poison and smells like poison and acts like poison, would you avoid it? Or would you taste it to be sure? smilies/icon_wink.gif

^
|
great way to get killed btw. XD  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:38 pm
divineseraph Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
divineseraph Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
All things come from God. God is the creator of both good and evil. God is absoulte and nature comes from God. The magic that pagans used is nature based. Magic in itself doesn't have an attribute, it's not good nor is it evil on it's own. What gives it's attribute is when someone uses it. Take a gun for example. On it's own, the gun isn't good or evil nor is it harmful. When someone uses it does it become good, evil or harmful. The attribute of that gun is dependent of the intent of the person using it. Same with religion. Same with Christianity.


The main use of a gun is to inflict harm on something, no matter what.

The thing with nature magic from my perspective is that it is based in this world, and not in God.

God is the source of everything, yes, but I don't think that everything flows directly from God. In my opinion, power that is good comes directly from God.


But, again, God created the source of that power, if it exists. If a human were to use it, and for evil, it would be the actions of the human and not the actions of the magic itself.


Well, as I understand, the thing is that any power that does not come directly from God gets filtered through eaither the world (which was cursed with Adam and Eve) or the devil.


I think that, if we follow Big Bang style thinking, there was at one point a unity, one thing. And from that one thing, ALL things came. It can be corrupted and distorted in this lowest of low dimensions (Malkhut) into curses or evil or wars or whatever, but through science and kabbalah both, all things came from the single force.


...And the fact that power goes through one thing or another, instead of directly from God to whoever the power is granted to, taints it, right?  

ShideKnight

ShideKnight's avatar


ShideKnight

ShideKnight's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:42 pm
Aquiella Wrote:
(XD ok I checked back. Curiosity got the better of me. And I like the last poster's viewpoint when posting questions! ^_^)

Exactly! Most of modern culture looks evil because most of modern culture IS evil, or influenced by something of evil origin.

But that's to be expected. It's the Last Days. It's SUPPOSED to be that way. Otherwise, how can God come back and save us from a wicked world? E3


Think of it this way. If it looks like poison and smells like poison and acts like poison, would you avoid it? Or would you taste it to be sure? smilies/icon_wink.gif

^
|
great way to get killed btw. XD


I guess that means that people have different tolerance levels for poison.

Either that or everyone is poisoned, and doesn't know it. smilies/icon_ninja.gif  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:54 pm
Well, not all poisons work right away. Some stay dormant in the system until a trigger is introduced, and some take time before they kill you. Others kill you pretty darned quick!!

The point is: are you willing to risk it?  

Aquiella

Aquiella's avatar


ShideKnight

ShideKnight's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:23 pm
Aquiella Wrote:
Well, not all poisons work right away. Some stay dormant in the system until a trigger is introduced, and some take time before they kill you. Others kill you pretty darned quick!!

The point is: are you willing to risk it?


So again, what counts as poison in a fallen world?

After all, apparently even the Jews were drawn away from God by the religion and rituals that God gave them.

Edit: (I have to admit, I am playing devil's advocate a little bit right now... so ignore me if you want smilies/icon_razz.gif Also, I am not trying to be mean, so I am sorry if it comes off that way)  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:35 am
I'm not sure magic - or witchcraft - is evil, anyway.

There are, and always have been, Christian magic-users, and I have sitting on my shelf a book called "Ancient Christian Magic".

Magic biblically is only condemned when it involves idolatry, lies, poisoning or necromancy.  

Sybil Unrest

Sybil Unrest's avatar


ShideKnight

ShideKnight's avatar

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:38 pm
The basis of magic is exerting your will on the world... I believe that is directly opposed to what Christianity teaches, that we should follow what God says is best.

With that said, I don't doubt that there have been Christians who practice things that might appear similar to magic, but I think it would of had to of been fundamentally different from magic (at least I would say that looking from the inside; I am sure others would disagree).  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:52 pm
Sybil Unrest Wrote:
I'm not sure magic - or witchcraft - is evil, anyway.

There are, and always have been, Christian magic-users, and I have sitting on my shelf a book called "Ancient Christian Magic".

Magic biblically is only condemned when it involves idolatry, lies, poisoning or necromancy.

One big problem with that book you mentioned.

Who wrote it? A christian or an atheist?  

Aquiella

Aquiella's avatar


Ricette

Ricette's avatar

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 pm
I didn't read through all the pages, since I am kinda lazy but, magic = evil? Only if practiced to harm another being is it ever bad. And well, witchcraft is not all bad. The big practitioner of it in the bible is the well known Moses. I mean staff turned intoa snack, river into blood, the Red Sea being parted and then the whole bit of striking a rock to get water for those wanderers? Dare you refute that magic? Yeah he gave God credit except for the water from rock bit, which we know barred him from entering the Holy Land but, yeah still magic.  
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