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 Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:10 am
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ferret658 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Crimson Raccoon -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Crimson Raccoon Well, not that ferret's post made mention of it, but mainly what Jesus does for us is he died for our sins. Vishnu never sacrificed himself out of love for his people, nor would he ever be willing to. Christ redeems his people from bondage to sin, at his own expense. Vishnu claims to be a god, but would he ever give up divine glory to come and dwell among his people? To have all of our weaknesses and experience all our suffering? Christ actually considers us brothers, sisters, and friends; and he's experienced all the humanity that we have. I don't know all that Vishnu supposedly promises his people, but Christ not only promises salvation and love; he actually carried out the actions himself and performed the greatest display of love anyone possibly could: sacrificing himself, though he was God, and suffering the condemnation that we deserved, even though we hated him. What wondrous love is this. Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.- Philippians 2 Actually Vishnu is called the "Preserver" in Hinduism. And he came down to Earth in 9 avatars or incarnations. Two of them are called Rama and Krishna. Krishna amazingly shares the same qualities as Christ. Vishnu is also featured in a trinity of sorts along with Brahma and Shiva. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/v/vishnu.html http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/krishna.htm In the article you provided, I saw no similarity between Krishna and Christ. It says Krishna is a "trickster" and that he likes to "seduce the village girls." No Hindu god actually carried out any act of love for their people like Christ did. Self-sacrifice is the greatest form of love, and the God of Christianity is the only one willing to do such a thing. And historically we know that he did. Vishnu may promise some kind of salvation, but Christ actually carried it out for us. As the first article you posted says, in Hinduism "Men attain salvation by faithfully following predetermined paths of duty." In Christianity, Christ gives us salvation freely: he did the work for it, and he paid the penality for the punishment we deserve. God humbled himself to become a man, lived a full life of sharing in our human suffering, and sacrificed his very life so that we could be reconciled to him. So we know that he loves us; there's nothing he could possibly do to show it more than that. The question was what does Christ claim to do that's different than Vishnu; and the answer is that Christ loves us so much he was willing to die for us. Have you forgotten, that in Jesus' youth that he was also a trickster? Or did that little fact, not matter to you? Do you have proof that God became a human? And how exactly was Christ a trickster when He was a youth? |
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:45 am
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:46 am
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:44 pm
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ferret658 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden divineseraph Crimson Raccoon divineseraph ferret658 Jesus and Vishnu don't even have the same amount of arms, so that's not even fair. And second of all, people who worship Vishnu don't even like meat. I think. rofl But is what they claim to do different? Well, not that ferret's post made mention of it, but mainly what Jesus does for us is he died for our sins. Vishnu never sacrificed himself out of love for his people, nor would he ever be willing to. Christ redeems his people from bondage to sin, at his own expense. Vishnu claims to be a god, but would he ever give up divine glory to come and dwell among his people? To have all of our weaknesses and experience all our suffering? Christ actually considers us brothers, sisters, and friends; and he's experienced all the humanity that we have. I don't know all that Vishnu supposedly promises his people, but Christ not only promises salvation and love; he actually carried out the actions himself and performed the greatest display of love anyone possibly could: sacrificing himself, though he was God, and suffering the condemnation that we deserved, even though we hated him. What wondrous love is this. Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.- Philippians 2 He didn't need to sacrifice himself, he is simpy the All Preserver, ruler of life and death and creator of all things. Go to him, he does it without dying on a cross first. And the post wasn't advertising his awesome abilities at self sacrifice, it was focused on the "salvation" aspect. My point is, I'm making a satire out of the foolish claim of " Jesus is the one and only way ever because someone said so once, so you should all go to him forever because I said so." Frankly, it's insulting the the whole point of Christ to dumb him down to "If you believe it, you're in". I have to agree with divine, he's got a point. Holy crap, Hell froze over. o.o Well that's what it says in the Bible. God made it simple because He knew that we're all idiots who like to show off our works. If you believe it, you are in. And you're in for good.
I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people?
Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"? |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:51 am
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divineseraph ferret658 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden divineseraph Crimson Raccoon Well, not that ferret's post made mention of it, but mainly what Jesus does for us is he died for our sins. Vishnu never sacrificed himself out of love for his people, nor would he ever be willing to. Christ redeems his people from bondage to sin, at his own expense. Vishnu claims to be a god, but would he ever give up divine glory to come and dwell among his people? To have all of our weaknesses and experience all our suffering? Christ actually considers us brothers, sisters, and friends; and he's experienced all the humanity that we have. I don't know all that Vishnu supposedly promises his people, but Christ not only promises salvation and love; he actually carried out the actions himself and performed the greatest display of love anyone possibly could: sacrificing himself, though he was God, and suffering the condemnation that we deserved, even though we hated him. What wondrous love is this. Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.- Philippians 2 He didn't need to sacrifice himself, he is simpy the All Preserver, ruler of life and death and creator of all things. Go to him, he does it without dying on a cross first. And the post wasn't advertising his awesome abilities at self sacrifice, it was focused on the "salvation" aspect. My point is, I'm making a satire out of the foolish claim of " Jesus is the one and only way ever because someone said so once, so you should all go to him forever because I said so." Frankly, it's insulting the the whole point of Christ to dumb him down to "If you believe it, you're in". I have to agree with divine, he's got a point. Holy crap, Hell froze over. o.o Well that's what it says in the Bible. God made it simple because He knew that we're all idiots who like to show off our works. If you believe it, you are in. And you're in for good. I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people? Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"?
NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:05 am
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ferret658 divineseraph ferret658 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden divineseraph Crimson Raccoon Well, not that ferret's post made mention of it, but mainly what Jesus does for us is he died for our sins. Vishnu never sacrificed himself out of love for his people, nor would he ever be willing to. Christ redeems his people from bondage to sin, at his own expense. Vishnu claims to be a god, but would he ever give up divine glory to come and dwell among his people? To have all of our weaknesses and experience all our suffering? Christ actually considers us brothers, sisters, and friends; and he's experienced all the humanity that we have. I don't know all that Vishnu supposedly promises his people, but Christ not only promises salvation and love; he actually carried out the actions himself and performed the greatest display of love anyone possibly could: sacrificing himself, though he was God, and suffering the condemnation that we deserved, even though we hated him. What wondrous love is this. Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.- Philippians 2 He didn't need to sacrifice himself, he is simpy the All Preserver, ruler of life and death and creator of all things. Go to him, he does it without dying on a cross first. And the post wasn't advertising his awesome abilities at self sacrifice, it was focused on the "salvation" aspect. My point is, I'm making a satire out of the foolish claim of " Jesus is the one and only way ever because someone said so once, so you should all go to him forever because I said so." Frankly, it's insulting the the whole point of Christ to dumb him down to "If you believe it, you're in". I have to agree with divine, he's got a point. Holy crap, Hell froze over. o.o Well that's what it says in the Bible. God made it simple because He knew that we're all idiots who like to show off our works. If you believe it, you are in. And you're in for good. I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people? Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"? NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood.
Ferret's right. The entire point of Jesus wasn't that he was just an "epic role model." He was perfect, and he is a role model, and he does want us to be like him; he does want us to be good. But his perfect life of obedience wasn't meant as just a good example; he was fulfilling the law perfectly, so that he would be a perfect sacrifice. If a sinful man gives up his life, he can't use that sacrifice to save anyone else because he has his own sins that need paying for. But because Jesus was sinless, yet he paid the penalty of death and condemnation, he paid it on our behalf.
Seraph, you're pretty much right about everything you said, except that main point. He did what was right, he forgave others... but what right does he have to forgive others?? How can he say to someone who has sinned against a holy and just God, "Your sins are forgiven"? A woman guilty of adultery or prostitution didn't do anything against Jesus, so it's really not his place to forgive them; and he has no authority to. That's exactly why he was unpopular with the Pharisees, because he was clearly putting himself in the position of God. If a husband forgives his wife for committing adultery, then everyone's happy with that, it's a beautiful thing that he would be capable of bringing himself to do that. The husband has the right to forgive. But what right does this stinking vagabond have to forgive her? The fact is, everything Jesus did was totally unjustified and quite worthless unless he was truly God himself, come to redeem his people. If he wasn't truly God, then the Phariees were right to kill him because he was blasphemous and leading thousands of people astray.
And when he returned to Capernaum after some days, it was reported that he was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no more room, not even at the door. And he was preaching the word to them. And they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.” And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!” - Mark 2:1-12
His intention didn't "go from [helping people and being a good person] to 'say my name and you're golden.'" His message all along to those he helped was that their faith is what makes them well. His forgiveness of sins is always in response to the person's faith; hence he never told the Pharisees they were forgiven. They were trying to earn salvation by being good, rather than by faith.
Not only was Jesus' message consistant throughout his whole life, but his message and mission was already laid out for him before he was even born. Prophesies in the Old Testament, written hundreds of years before Christ came, made it clear that the coming Messiah would not only be righteous, but he would die for our sins. See Isaiah 53 for example. (a section is quoted below)
It's not about just saying Jesus' name. It's about 1. admitting that we aren't perfect, we can't be perfect, we sin against God, and we rightly deserve punishment for it; and 2. accepting Christ as our savior from all that, putting our faith in his righteousness and sacrifice to cover the penalty for our sins, and yes, following his example. But we don't follow his example and "be good" because somehow that gets us in good with God and earns us salvation; rather we do it out of love of God and desiring to glorify him, for all he has already done for us.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
...he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
- sections from Isaiah 53 |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:16 am
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ferret658 divineseraph ferret658 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden divineseraph Crimson Raccoon Well, not that ferret's post made mention of it, but mainly what Jesus does for us is he died for our sins. Vishnu never sacrificed himself out of love for his people, nor would he ever be willing to. Christ redeems his people from bondage to sin, at his own expense. Vishnu claims to be a god, but would he ever give up divine glory to come and dwell among his people? To have all of our weaknesses and experience all our suffering? Christ actually considers us brothers, sisters, and friends; and he's experienced all the humanity that we have. I don't know all that Vishnu supposedly promises his people, but Christ not only promises salvation and love; he actually carried out the actions himself and performed the greatest display of love anyone possibly could: sacrificing himself, though he was God, and suffering the condemnation that we deserved, even though we hated him. What wondrous love is this. Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.- Philippians 2 He didn't need to sacrifice himself, he is simpy the All Preserver, ruler of life and death and creator of all things. Go to him, he does it without dying on a cross first. And the post wasn't advertising his awesome abilities at self sacrifice, it was focused on the "salvation" aspect. My point is, I'm making a satire out of the foolish claim of " Jesus is the one and only way ever because someone said so once, so you should all go to him forever because I said so." Frankly, it's insulting the the whole point of Christ to dumb him down to "If you believe it, you're in". I have to agree with divine, he's got a point. Holy crap, Hell froze over. o.o Well that's what it says in the Bible. God made it simple because He knew that we're all idiots who like to show off our works. If you believe it, you are in. And you're in for good. I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people? Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"? NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:15 am
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-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden P E T T O S Moon Maiden, where did you get that info? That Christ did those things? Biblical scholars. Where else? neutral I mean come on. Most people in their youth played pranks on kids. It's a normal common occurrence. Just because Christ was the son of God didn't mean he couldn't have a normal childhood or try to. neutral
It would be impossible for Biblical scholars to have anything to say about Jesus' childhood, because Jesus' childhood isn't in the Bible. Therefore it isn't Biblical. xp The only information on Jesus' youth that's in the Bible is how he was born, and the time he was left behind in Jerusalem and he stayed in the temple. Other than this, there's nothing. Whatever Jesus' childhood was like, he went through it without ever sinning, and that's really all that's important to know about it.
-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden I have to agree with Divine once again. Just saying you believe in Christ isn't going to get your ticket to heaven nor will it save you. Faith without works is a dead faith. neutral
What you say here is absolutely true. "Faith without works is dead," certainly. That doesn't mean, though, that works are what can save anyone. The New Testament which that quote is from makes it clear that salvation is a gift of God, received through faith in Jesus Christ. It's true that "just saying you believe in Christ" isn't going to get you anywhere, Jesus himself made that clear, constantly spoking against hypocracy. You need to have faith, and faith is not at all the same thing as just saying you believe something.
By grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2
The issue of "good works" is explained in that passage. Salvation is a gift, it's not a result of our good deeds. It comes through faith, and if that faith is sincere, it will naturally lead us on to strive against our sin and to live lives pleasing to the one we love. If you love someone, you don't need to be forced to be good to them; and you don't need a list of rules and requirements to follow; if your love is genuine, you will do it naturally. And, God works through us and enables to do his good works in this world.
A person who believes their own deeds can save them is really doing things for selfish reasons; not out of love, but out of trying to save their own skin. And even if a person who decides to save themselves in this way really can avoid doing any sinful actions, they still have the sins they've committed in their past that they can't just erase. And they still have the sins of their heart and thoughts, that they will continue to commit their whole life. They can never live up to the perfection required to be found innocent against perfect justice. And in any case, no matter how "perfect" they can get themselves to be, they are still guilty of hating God because they reject Jesus Christ. Whoever rejects the Son also rejects the Father. (John 5:23)
Faith without works is dead, but works are not the source of salvation; God's grace is the source, which enables us to overcome our sin and gives us the desire to do good. "Believe," not just say you believe, but really "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." (Acts 16) "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10) |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:24 am
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-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden P E T T O S Moon Maiden, where did you get that info? That Christ did those things? Biblical scholars. Where else? neutral I mean come on. Most people in their youth played pranks on kids. It's a normal common occurrence. Just because Christ was the son of God didn't mean he couldn't have a normal childhood or try to. neutral
It sounds abit farfetched...the following text is one of two events we know about Jesus's childhood, the other one is when He was born.
The Boy Jesus at the Temple
41Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. 42When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. 43After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
49"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" 50But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
51Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:09 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:10 pm
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-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden ferret658 divineseraph ferret658 -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden I have to agree with divine, he's got a point. Holy crap, Hell froze over. o.o Well that's what it says in the Bible. God made it simple because He knew that we're all idiots who like to show off our works. If you believe it, you are in. And you're in for good. I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people? Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"? NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood. I have to agree with Divine once again. Just saying you believe in Christ isn't going to get your ticket to heaven nor will it save you. Faith without works is a dead faith. neutral
Oh, so my grampa who died last night - a two week old Christian who was unconcsious for the last week and a half of his life isn't going to heaven because he didn't do anything for God because he couldn't? Wow. just wow. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:19 pm
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-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Crimson Racoon It would be impossible for Biblical scholars to have anything to say about Jesus' childhood, because Jesus' childhood isn't in the Bible. Therefore it isn't Biblical. The only information on Jesus' youth that's in the Bible is how he was born, and the time he was left behind in Jerusalem and he stayed in the temple. Other than this, there's nothing. Whatever Jesus' childhood was like, he went through it without ever sinning, and that's really all that's important to know about it. Define not biblical. There could be something in the Banned Books that could very well tell us more. Or there are more accounts in the Bible than what we know of. http://mi.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=115However Jesus may have been sinless but he was still a boy. And as we all know, boys like causing trouble. They like making pranks, and things like that. Who's to say that Jesus didn't do the same? How were you when you were a child Crim? Or you Pettos?
Not Biblical means it's not of the Bible. There are other writings that claim to be about Jesus' life, but they were written a hundred or more years after the fact. The churches at the time they were written rejected them (when they were even aware of them) because they could tell they weren't truthful accurate accounts of Jesus' life, and were just made up.
The link you provide is to a religious university, not a Christian one but Mormon. Not that that necessarily discredits it, but it's worth pointing out that this is obviously not from a Christian perspective.
But even besides that, the article actually disagrees with your claim that Jesus was a "trickster" in his youth. The article is simply discussing different things that were written, at various times, about Jesus as a child. So just because it's describing what some of these writings say, doesn't mean it actually supports any of them as being true.
In fact, it criticizes the ones in particular that you are referring to. The article says they were written after the fact, and that they were merely "a mass of popular fables" and "unabashed daydreams." Obviously, the author doesn't give much merit to their accuracy. So it's incorrect to say this author claims that Christ was a "trickster" in his youth.
-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden If works aren't the source of salvation then how are we to be like Christ? What is the point in calling ourselves Christians? neutral
We are called to be like Christ, but none of us will do that perfectly. When God saves us and gives us his Holy Spirit, we are given a new nature and become capable of overcoming sin by God's grace. As we continue in life, we gradually become more and more like Christ as God works in us through our experiences and trials. But it's never completed until we are with God in heaven, completely without sin. All of this is done through God's grace.
We don't call ourselves Christian because we claim to be just like Christ, that would be pretty arrogant. We're called Christians because we follow Christ, and we belong to him. Again, we strive to be like Christ, by God's grace, but if we think that somehow that will "earn" us heaven, then we're really not being like Christ at all. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:24 pm
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Crimson Raccoon We are called to be like Christ, but none of us will do that perfectly. When God saves us and gives us his Holy Spirit, we are given a new nature and become capable of overcoming sin by God's grace. As we continue in life, we gradually become more and more like Christ as God works in us through our experiences and trials. But it's never completed until we are with God in heaven, completely without sin. All of this is done through God's grace. We don't call ourselves Christian because we claim to be just like Christ, that would be pretty arrogant. We're called Christians because we follow Christ, and we belong to him. Again, we strive to be like Christ, by God's grace, but if we think that somehow that will "earn" us heaven, then we're really not being like Christ at all.
Couldn't have said it better myself. mrgreen |
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:42 pm
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:49 pm
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