Welcome to Gaia! ::

*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

Back to Guilds

 

 

Reply Debate and Discussion
Hell: Is it eternal? Goto Page: 1 2 3 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Submit

Tornadomaster_Auron

Tornadomaster_Auron's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:59 pm
I recently met a Christian woman who proclaimed that "There is no such thing as an eternal hell."

She says "Even though we may sin, and even though men may not even accept him, he still forgives them. He would never send them to a place of eternal damnation. He is just like a good father, always forgiving his children."

This disturbed me. She was basically saying that even if a man were to be a child molester or a serial killer, he'd get into Heaven eventually? If that is the kind of Heaven that I am destined to go to, I would rather sit in Hell than go there. I refuse to believe in a God who would give those people a free pass into Heaven. Jesus may have bought my ticket to Heaven for me, but I have to make it worth it, by accepting him.

Am I a bad Christian for thinking like this?  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:36 am
As long as they repent from their sins and believe in Jesus as their lord and savior they go to Heaven.  

Neferet -House of Night-

Neferet -House of Night-'s avatar


No place like 127 0 0 1

No place like 127 0 0 1's avatar

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:41 am
well unfortunately, there is such thing as eternal hell...maybe she was thinking of purgatory? even though shes christian o.o  
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:21 am
No place like 127 0 0 1 Wrote:
well unfortunately, there is such thing as eternal hell...maybe she was thinking of purgatory? even though shes christian o.o
Purgatory is a Catholic concept and they're still Christian btw.

However if they repent and accept Jesus they can go to Heaven. I've heard that from different Christians. However they still think gays can go to hell..o.o Which makes no sense to me.  

Neferet -House of Night-

Neferet -House of Night-'s avatar


Tornadomaster_Auron

Tornadomaster_Auron's avatar

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:24 pm
You're missing the point: Is Hell really eternal? Do we get punished then after we've had our licks we go to Heaven, scarred from those punishments?  
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:19 pm
Tornadomaster_Auron Wrote:
You're missing the point: Is Hell really eternal? Do we get punished then after we've had our licks we go to Heaven, scarred from those punishments?


The answer to your question is simple. According to the Bible, yes, hell is eternal. According to the words of Jesus himself, hell is a real place and is eternal, and once someone is there, they can never get out. The Christian belief in Hell based on what the Bible says about it.

There are about a dozen verses in the New Testament that say Hell is eternal. Just looking up the word "hell" in any Bible concordance or index will get you to them. Here's one, a quote from Jesus in Matthew 25 about the final judgment after the second coming of Christ:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.



Hell is a terrible place, but we can escape the punishment we deserve through the saving grace of God by accepting Jesus Christ as our savior, because he paid the penalty for us and cleared the way to God. =)  

Crimson Raccoon

Crimson Raccoon's avatar


lordstar

lordstar's avatar

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:20 am
Tornadomaster_Auron Wrote:
I recently met a Christian woman who proclaimed that "There is no such thing as an eternal hell."

She says "Even though we may sin, and even though men may not even accept him, he still forgives them. He would never send them to a place of eternal damnation. He is just like a good father, always forgiving his children."

This disturbed me. She was basically saying that even if a man were to be a child molester or a serial killer, he'd get into Heaven eventually? If that is the kind of Heaven that I am destined to go to, I would rather sit in Hell than go there. I refuse to believe in a God who would give those people a free pass into Heaven. Jesus may have bought my ticket to Heaven for me, but I have to make it worth it, by accepting him.

Am I a bad Christian for thinking like this?


Yup
you should go repent before you loose your free pass  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:47 am
Tornadomaster_Auron Wrote:
You're missing the point: Is Hell really eternal? Do we get punished then after we've had our licks we go to Heaven, scarred from those punishments?


Are you sure people go to hell to be punished? Is vengeance a godly virtue? Are we all to be thrown away like garbage once judged as broken?

It seems to me that the concept of hell was created by man to control the population

face it dude
we are all born broken, will live perhaps the best we can trying constantly to make up for our shortcomings, and we will all die broken...unless there is some holy person/people that can forgive sins (so many issues with this concept I don't even know were to start...nonetheless it is BS)

Its like River says...the bible is broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP2Ar-kjwCo  

lordstar

lordstar's avatar


promised_child

promised_child's avatar

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:19 pm
lordstar Wrote:
Tornadomaster_Auron Wrote:
You're missing the point: Is Hell really eternal? Do we get punished then after we've had our licks we go to Heaven, scarred from those punishments?


Are you sure people go to hell to be punished? Is vengeance a godly virtue? Are we all to be thrown away like garbage once judged as broken?

It seems to me that the concept of hell was created by man to control the population

face it dude
we are all born broken, will live perhaps the best we can trying constantly to make up for our shortcomings, and we will all die broken...unless there is some holy person/people that can forgive sins (so many issues with this concept I don't even know were to start...nonetheless it is BS)

Its like River says...the bible is broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP2Ar-kjwCo


River?!?! seriously?!?!
Yes Hell is eternal
yes it is a place of punishment
yes it is a place of judgement
but it is sooo easy to avoid
If you were arrested, tried and convicted of murder, regardless of your guilt in that particular crime, and the Judges son stood before his father and said, send me to prison in his place, if that is what he chooses.

i know it doesn't happen that way in our earthly justice systems, but that is exactly what Jesus did. EVERY sin holds the same weight as every other sin, and they all hold the same punishment; death.

but the good news is that the Judges Son paid the price. we don't have to go to hell, but once there you can never leave. Because it was your choice.

does that make sense?  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:03 am
promised_child Wrote:
lordstar Wrote:
Tornadomaster_Auron Wrote:
You're missing the point: Is Hell really eternal? Do we get punished then after we've had our licks we go to Heaven, scarred from those punishments?


Are you sure people go to hell to be punished? Is vengeance a godly virtue? Are we all to be thrown away like garbage once judged as broken?

It seems to me that the concept of hell was created by man to control the population

face it dude
we are all born broken, will live perhaps the best we can trying constantly to make up for our shortcomings, and we will all die broken...unless there is some holy person/people that can forgive sins (so many issues with this concept I don't even know were to start...nonetheless it is BS)

Its like River says...the bible is broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP2Ar-kjwCo


River?!?! seriously?!?!
Yes Hell is eternal
yes it is a place of punishment
yes it is a place of judgement
but it is sooo easy to avoid
If you were arrested, tried and convicted of murder, regardless of your guilt in that particular crime, and the Judges son stood before his father and said, send me to prison in his place, if that is what he chooses.

i know it doesn't happen that way in our earthly justice systems, but that is exactly what Jesus did. EVERY sin holds the same weight as every other sin, and they all hold the same punishment; death.

but the good news is that the Judges Son paid the price. we don't have to go to hell, but once there you can never leave. Because it was your choice.

does that make sense?


1) River is fantastic and her logic is solid
2) You forgot to tell us how to avoid hell

If man lives constantly in sin (as such is unavoidable)
and none with sin may enter the kingdom of God
how is it possible to be saved

think about sin as a linear function
every time the slate is wiped clean is a zero
however to enter the kingdom of God our only window is the instant of a zero

and the probability for making that window is the lim of the function as it approaches the point

as in zero
doesn't happen
at all
ever

all in all
I put my faith elsewhere  

lordstar

lordstar's avatar


Crimson Raccoon

Crimson Raccoon's avatar

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:27 pm
lordstar Wrote:
promised_child Wrote:
lordstar Wrote:
Tornadomaster_Auron Wrote:
You're missing the point: Is Hell really eternal? Do we get punished then after we've had our licks we go to Heaven, scarred from those punishments?


Are you sure people go to hell to be punished? Is vengeance a godly virtue? Are we all to be thrown away like garbage once judged as broken?

It seems to me that the concept of hell was created by man to control the population

face it dude
we are all born broken, will live perhaps the best we can trying constantly to make up for our shortcomings, and we will all die broken...unless there is some holy person/people that can forgive sins (so many issues with this concept I don't even know were to start...nonetheless it is BS)

Its like River says...the bible is broken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP2Ar-kjwCo


River?!?! seriously?!?!
Yes Hell is eternal
yes it is a place of punishment
yes it is a place of judgement
but it is sooo easy to avoid
If you were arrested, tried and convicted of murder, regardless of your guilt in that particular crime, and the Judges son stood before his father and said, send me to prison in his place, if that is what he chooses.

i know it doesn't happen that way in our earthly justice systems, but that is exactly what Jesus did. EVERY sin holds the same weight as every other sin, and they all hold the same punishment; death.

but the good news is that the Judges Son paid the price. we don't have to go to hell, but once there you can never leave. Because it was your choice.

does that make sense?


1) River is fantastic and her logic is solid
2) You forgot to tell us how to avoid hell

If man lives constantly in sin (as such is unavoidable)
and none with sin may enter the kingdom of God
how is it possible to be saved

think about sin as a linear function
every time the slate is wiped clean is a zero
however to enter the kingdom of God our only window is the instant of a zero

and the probability for making that window is the lim of the function as it approaches the point

as in zero
doesn't happen
at all
ever

all in all
I put my faith elsewhere


Okay, but you're arguing against a false, misrepresented form of Christianity. Your logic is sound, but it is based on the false premise that only a limited number of specific sins are forgiven when a person asks God to forgive them; and so since we continually sin we would need to constantly be asking for forgiveness or else we go to hell for even one sin that we forgot to confess. But that's not how it works at all, that isn't what Christians believe and it isn't what the Bible teaches, so you're following a straw-man argument.

Forgiveness for sin comes from faith in Christ. Christ's sacrifice was final, and paid the penalty for all sin: past, present, and future. It's not each individual prayer a person makes confessing their sins that wipes their slate clean, it's the work of Jesus Christ. We can be saved from hell by the gift of God's salvation, by grace and through faith. If you receive that gift of salvation through faith in Christ, your sin will be placed on him; he has already paid the penalty for it. You don't need to worry about going to hell if you die before confessing a particular sin, because even though you sinned that doesn't mean your faith in Christ had to disappear. It's the grace of God through faith, not our individual prayers of confession, that lets us appear sinless before God in judgment.

Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. - Acts 10:43. Forgiveness for all our sin is given from the moment we put our faith on Christ.  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:56 am
Alright now we are getting somewhere

there is no need for confession
and I’ll make another stretch and say that we do not require assistance to be forgiven as we can constantly ask for forgiveness ourselves

that is to say
the faithful are not required to worship in a church or specific holy place and men of faith serve as mentors and or guides but in no way require interaction with for our own salvation

taking this a bit further
donating to a church is not necessary in any way
and the notion that salvation can be purchased as believed rather strongly in years long past is totally bogus

now then
if salvation is through faith in Christ
is baptism or confirmation necessary?
I'm thinking no as faith is all that is necessary?

I am also interested in what happens at the moment of death
in that moment are we still able to choose salvation or can we only do so while we are alive

and do we actually ask for forgiveness or is it defacto contingent upon faith  

lordstar

lordstar's avatar


promised_child

promised_child's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:14 am
lordstar Wrote:
Alright now we are getting somewhere

there is no need for confession
and I’ll make another stretch and say that we do not require assistance to be forgiven as we can constantly ask for forgiveness ourselves

that is to say
the faithful are not required to worship in a church or specific holy place and men of faith serve as mentors and or guides but in no way require interaction with for our own salvation

taking this a bit further
donating to a church is not necessary in any way
and the notion that salvation can be purchased as believed rather strongly in years long past is totally bogus

now then
if salvation is through faith in Christ
is baptism or confirmation necessary?
I'm thinking no as faith is all that is necessary?

I am also interested in what happens at the moment of death
in that moment are we still able to choose salvation or can we only do so while we are alive

and do we actually ask for forgiveness or is it defacto contingent upon faith


you are awesome, lordstar! you almost always give me something to work with!

1. He wasnt talking about a confession to a priest (were you raised catholic?) you are right there, confessing to a human does absolutely nothing. it isnt even about the confession of sin, it is the repentance.

2. baptism is a public declaration. Jesus was baptised.

3. Brother Kenneth Haggin actually died 3 times when he was 13, the third time, he prayed on the way to hell and was saved. and resurected. so yes it is possible, but i would advise against waiting that long.

also I didnt forget, i was just being cryptic ;p
it was in the story of the judge  
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:00 am
promised_child Wrote:
lordstar Wrote:
Alright now we are getting somewhere

there is no need for confession
and I’ll make another stretch and say that we do not require assistance to be forgiven as we can constantly ask for forgiveness ourselves

that is to say
the faithful are not required to worship in a church or specific holy place and men of faith serve as mentors and or guides but in no way require interaction with for our own salvation

taking this a bit further
donating to a church is not necessary in any way
and the notion that salvation can be purchased as believed rather strongly in years long past is totally bogus

now then
if salvation is through faith in Christ
is baptism or confirmation necessary?
I'm thinking no as faith is all that is necessary?

I am also interested in what happens at the moment of death
in that moment are we still able to choose salvation or can we only do so while we are alive

and do we actually ask for forgiveness or is it defacto contingent upon faith


you are awesome, lordstar! you almost always give me something to work with!

1. He wasnt talking about a confession to a priest (were you raised catholic?) you are right there, confessing to a human does absolutely nothing. it isnt even about the confession of sin, it is the repentance.

2. baptism is a public declaration. Jesus was baptised.

3. Brother Kenneth Haggin actually died 3 times when he was 13, the third time, he prayed on the way to hell and was saved. and resurected. so yes it is possible, but i would advise against waiting that long.

also I didnt forget, i was just being cryptic ;p
it was in the story of the judge


I was raised catholic...even went to catholic school
nun for a teacher and everything

rather acward seeing as I am of jewish blood

1) I know I know...but I really wanted to make that jump

I was thinking more along these lines
The act of confession is between person and "holy person"
Asking God for forgivness although essentialy the same prosses is between a person and God

I tryied seperating the two events out to make a stronger point

2) But is it required?

3) Thanks for clearing that up

4) Good story and all but it really don't explain much of anything outside of the context carried with the story  

lordstar

lordstar's avatar


promised_child

promised_child's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:20 pm
lordstar Wrote:
promised_child Wrote:
lordstar Wrote:
Alright now we are getting somewhere

there is no need for confession
and I’ll make another stretch and say that we do not require assistance to be forgiven as we can constantly ask for forgiveness ourselves

that is to say
the faithful are not required to worship in a church or specific holy place and men of faith serve as mentors and or guides but in no way require interaction with for our own salvation

taking this a bit further
donating to a church is not necessary in any way
and the notion that salvation can be purchased as believed rather strongly in years long past is totally bogus

now then
if salvation is through faith in Christ
is baptism or confirmation necessary?
I'm thinking no as faith is all that is necessary?

I am also interested in what happens at the moment of death
in that moment are we still able to choose salvation or can we only do so while we are alive

and do we actually ask for forgiveness or is it defacto contingent upon faith


you are awesome, lordstar! you almost always give me something to work with!

1. He wasnt talking about a confession to a priest (were you raised catholic?) you are right there, confessing to a human does absolutely nothing. it isnt even about the confession of sin, it is the repentance.

2. baptism is a public declaration. Jesus was baptised.

3. Brother Kenneth Haggin actually died 3 times when he was 13, the third time, he prayed on the way to hell and was saved. and resurected. so yes it is possible, but i would advise against waiting that long.

also I didnt forget, i was just being cryptic ;p
it was in the story of the judge


I was raised catholic...even went to catholic school
nun for a teacher and everything

rather acward seeing as I am of jewish blood

1) I know I know...but I really wanted to make that jump

I was thinking more along these lines
The act of confession is between person and "holy person"
Asking God for forgivness although essentialy the same prosses is between a person and God

I tryied seperating the two events out to make a stronger point

2) But is it required?

3) Thanks for clearing that up

4) Good story and all but it really don't explain much of anything outside of the context carried with the story

i know, but i was tired  
Reply
Debate and Discussion

Goto Page: 1 2 3 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games