Welcome to Gaia! ::

*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

Back to Guilds

 

 

Reply Debate and Discussion
is their really a god? Goto Page: 1 2 3 ... 4 5 6 7 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Submit

is their a god
  there is
  none
View Results

swakikiki

swakikiki's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:37 pm
enlighten me please smilies/icon_heart.gif  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:39 pm
with the problems that we have right now... we cant stop ourselves to ask if there is a real god... this is because sometimes we feel that we are all alone where there's nobody up above hu guide us in the decisions we make... so wats your point of view...
smilies/icon_question.gif smilies/icon_idea.gif  

swakikiki

swakikiki's avatar


ioioouiouiouio

ioioouiouiouio's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:43 pm
Yes, there is a God.

When we ask ourselves 'How could God let all this bad stuff happen?' we are suffering from a lack of faith. Not 'Faith' as in the religeous sense, but faith in God like a parent has faith in their child. the 'You can do it! I know you can!' type of Faith. God has a plan, and, when things look dark, just remember that it will all work out in the end. It may not be while you are alive, but it will happen.  
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:48 pm
My good man, this is a most unanswerable question.

If a god exists, the god is fully capable of making it appear as though they don't exist. If a god doesn't exist, we are fully capable of imagining that one does.  

Mechanism

Mechanism's avatar


Cielcakes

Cielcakes's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:45 am
Yes, their is a God. Most people don't believe that their is one because they either want proof (like they want to actually see Him, but they can't because they would die if they did.) or something bad happened in their life that makes them think, "If their was a god, then he wouldn't have let this happen." or something else like that......at least, that's what I think.  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:50 am
Necropolia Wrote:
Most people don't believe that there is one because they either want proof (like they want to actually see Him, but they can't because they would die if they did.)

-A lack of belief in a god is the 'default'.
-YHWH is not the 'default' god.

IMHO, it makes perfect sense to simply disregard claims that one has no reason to believe.  

Mechanism

Mechanism's avatar


Fushigi na Butterfly

Fushigi na Butterfly's avatar

5,750 Points
  • Hygienic 200
  • Citizen 200
  • Flatterer 200
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:14 am
Well, to think that we are here by mere chance is just ... eerie, and mind-boggling. It's hard to comprehend. It just makes more sense that there is a God that created everything.

There is only one possible combination of amino acids that gives life. One in The chance of 100 amino acids aligning in exactly the right order is one chance in one
followed by 158 zeroes or something similar. Edward Conklin, a biologist, has said that: "The probability of life originating from accident [or chance] is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a print shop."


The first identifiable life is found as fossil evidence in the Cambrian layer of rock, supposedly 500,000,000 (five hundred million) years old. That are no known fossil evidences in the two layers underneath. There have been billions of fossils found in this one layer alone and all have been of a highly complex nature. No one has found any fossil evidence of a development of life from a single cell ...

It is now known that complex plants existed in the Cambrian Period, which, on the evolutionary time scale, 200 million years or so before even simple land plants are supposed to have evolved.

Evolutionists claim that mutations are the changes that account for
the changes in species, yet scientists know that about ninety-nine out of one hundred mutations produce inferior creatures, such as the two headed snake, that "wouldn't last in the wild." If this is true, then the fossilized remains of these ninety-nine unsuccessful mutations should be found among fossils, as well as the successful ones found so abundantly. The fossil record reveals no fossil remains of known mutations.


The bee and the flower both had to appear at precisely the same time
or the earlier would not be able to survive.


The hunted animal and its predator, the hunter, had to "evolve" at
precisely the same time, or either the world would be over- populated by the hunted animal, if it "evolved" first, or with large quantities of fossils of the hunter if it "evolved" before its food supply "evolved."


So those are just some arguments against evolution. If we didn't evolve, what other option is there? And the reason it seems that bad things happen and that God isn't there is because of sin. We have free will; we aren't puppets. God isn't going to control us. With the example of 9/11- sure, God could have stopped that. But He gave those terrorists the same free will He gave everyone, and they chose to use it for bad.  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:03 am
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
Well, to think that we are here by mere chance is just ... eerie, and mind-boggling. It's hard to comprehend. It just makes more sense that there is a God that created everything.

False dilemma, Fush.
Nonexistence of a god does not imply that we're here by chance. In fact, the events which led to our existence are a result of natural processes and patterns. It's more than likely that life will occur in a universe of this magnitude.
Anyway, even assuming that the world as we know it was caused by something, is this thing necessarily intelligent? Is it necessarily humanlike? Is it necessarily YHWH?

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
There is only one possible combination of amino acids that gives life. One in The chance of 100 amino acids aligning in exactly the right order is one chance in one
followed by 158 zeroes or something similar.

Nah. Basically, each protein has a different combination of amino acids, and there are many thousands of different proteins within one species. the proteins in modern organisms are very complicated, but not necessarily so. The minimum requirement for abiogensis is a self-replicating molecule; theoretically, some fairly simple organic RNA and DNA molecules can do this. It has been shown that organic molecules do form quite naturally in an environment like what the early Earth's probably was.

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
The first identifiable life is found as fossil evidence in the Cambrian layer of rock, supposedly 500,000,000 (five hundred million) years old. That are no known fossil evidences in the two layers underneath. There have been billions of fossils found in this one layer alone and all have been of a highly complex nature. No one has found any fossil evidence of a development of life from a single cell ...

This is for a very simple reason.
Single cells don't fossilize well.

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
It is now known that complex plants existed in the Cambrian Period, which, on the evolutionary time scale, 200 million years or so before even simple land plants are supposed to have evolved.

Yah? Your point?

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
Evolutionists claim that mutations are the changes that account for the changes in species, yet scientists know that about ninety-nine out of one hundred mutations produce inferior creatures, such as the two headed snake, that "wouldn't last in the wild." If this is true, then the fossilized remains of these ninety-nine unsuccessful mutations should be found among fossils, as well as the successful ones found so abundantly. The fossil record reveals no fossil remains of known mutations.

Actually, the vast majority of mutations have no real effect.
Quick note, most evolution occurs when the environment changes and variations which are already present become more frequent, not when variations just happen to make an organism fitter.

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
The bee and the flower both had to appear at precisely the same time or the earlier would not be able to survive.

Eh, not really.
Prototype flowers that used other pollinators, and prototype bees, that got food from other sources, could have easily existed.

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
The hunted animal and its predator, the hunter, had to "evolve" at
precisely the same time, or either the world would be over- populated by the hunted animal, if it "evolved" first, or with large quantities of fossils of the hunter if it "evolved" before its food supply "evolved."

Most predators prey on many different types of animal, and likewise for prey; those few species which are very specialized and only have one prey could've evolved via a prototype species that had a different prey.

Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
So those are just some arguments against evolution. If we didn't evolve, what other option is there? And the reason it seems that bad things happen and that God isn't there is because of sin. We have free will; we aren't puppets. God isn't going to control us. With the example of 9/11- sure, God could have stopped that. But He gave those terrorists the same free will He gave everyone, and they chose to use it for bad.

Eh, firstly, you hardly disproved evolution.
Secondly, jumping to the conclusion that YHWH created us is a bit hasty, dontcha think?

Anyway, sorry for my quick reply. I'm sure you could get much more thorough answers for your objections from talk.origins or similar.  

Mechanism

Mechanism's avatar


Sage~of~Water

Sage~of~Water's avatar

850 Points
  • Dressed Up 200
  • Hygienic 200
  • Member 100
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:07 pm
Yes there is a God.

I agree with Cometh The Inquisitor, he is right. God gives us tests of our faith. Are you new to Christianity? It sounds like what a newcomer would say.


Bad things happen to the best of people all through history. The first things people that have just become Christians should realize is that God loves us. No matter how horrible things get God is with us. Now I do agree with Fushigi na Butterfly.

We are not a mistake, or made by "chance," God loves His people He will never leave His people/Creation. God is always there, you can always pray to Him. He understands frustration and sin, He is a Just God and Loving.


Why do bad things happen to His people? Well, some theologians belive that He does it to punish us for our sin and for drifting away from him.


This is my veiw on this subject, and there is always hope in the darkest of hours for God is there with you... I understand how you feel angry and frusterated but we all get doubts about certain things.


Thanks for listening,

Sage~of~Water


P.S. If you have any questions on what I have just stated to you, you are free to pm me any time. God bless you and yours.  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:29 pm
Mechanism Wrote:
IMHO, it makes perfect sense to simply disregard claims that one has no reason to believe.


Interestingly enough, there is no actual reason for gravity. It exists anyways, though.

Just an FYI.  

ioioouiouiouio

ioioouiouiouio's avatar


Tarrou

Tarrou's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:58 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Wrote:
Interestingly enough, there is no actual reason for gravity. It exists anyways, though.

Just an FYI.

Actually, according to general relativity, gravity is the result of mass and energy creating a curve in space-time.  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:01 pm
Well, we believe there is. At least, I do. There are a lot of reasons that are hard to explain.

And a common question from skepticals of our religion is, "If God is so good and benevolent, then why does he let us suffer like this in the World?"

That's where my signature comes in. If the world didn't suck, we'd fall off.
 

A Menina Pianista

A Menina Pianista's avatar


Fushigi na Butterfly

Fushigi na Butterfly's avatar

5,750 Points
  • Hygienic 200
  • Citizen 200
  • Flatterer 200
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:49 pm
Mechanism Wrote:
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
It is now known that complex plants existed in the Cambrian Period, which, on the evolutionary time scale, 200 million years or so before even simple land plants are supposed to have evolved.

Yah? Your point?


First off, does that even make sense? That would be like saying that humans "evolved" before chimps (or whatever it is we're supposed to have come from. (oh yay, now I sound like an idiot -_-)). It's like ... devolving. Is that a word? I hope so. -_-;

Mechanism Wrote:
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
Evolutionists claim that mutations are the changes that account for the changes in species, yet scientists know that about ninety-nine out of one hundred mutations produce inferior creatures, such as the two headed snake, that "wouldn't last in the wild." If this is true, then the fossilized remains of these ninety-nine unsuccessful mutations should be found among fossils, as well as the successful ones found so abundantly. The fossil record reveals no fossil remains of known mutations.

Actually, the vast majority of mutations have no real effect.
Quick note, most evolution occurs when the environment changes and variations which are already present become more frequent, not when variations just happen to make an organism fitter.


Just most? Not all? What about certain genetic disorders? Those are just mutations too, aren't they? They weren't always there, it might not even be in the family. But suddenly, a gene gets all whacked out and does something weird and you have a baby with a disorder. It's all the same. Two-headed snakes and babies with disorders- random mutations, neither of which would probably survive "in the wild".

Mechanism Wrote:
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
The bee and the flower both had to appear at precisely the same time or the earlier would not be able to survive.

Eh, not really.
Prototype flowers that used other pollinators, and prototype bees, that got food from other sources, could have easily existed.


Did they?

Mechanism Wrote:
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
The hunted animal and its predator, the hunter, had to "evolve" at
precisely the same time, or either the world would be over- populated by the hunted animal, if it "evolved" first, or with large quantities of fossils of the hunter if it "evolved" before its food supply "evolved."

Most predators prey on many different types of animal, and likewise for prey; those few species which are very specialized and only have one prey could've evolved via a prototype species that had a different prey.


Again. Could have. Maybe. Did they?

Mechanism Wrote:
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
So those are just some arguments against evolution. If we didn't evolve, what other option is there? And the reason it seems that bad things happen and that God isn't there is because of sin. We have free will; we aren't puppets. God isn't going to control us. With the example of 9/11- sure, God could have stopped that. But He gave those terrorists the same free will He gave everyone, and they chose to use it for bad.

Eh, firstly, you hardly disproved evolution.
Secondly, jumping to the conclusion that YHWH created us is a bit hasty, dontcha think?


No.  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:55 pm
Tangled Up In Blue Wrote:
Cometh The Inquisitor Wrote:
Interestingly enough, there is no actual reason for gravity. It exists anyways, though.

Just an FYI.

Actually, according to general relativity, gravity is the result of mass and energy creating a curve in space-time.


yes, but I don't think to many people know about space-time, so I simplified it.

People really don't know why stuff exists for things like physics (E.I. space-time, Newtonian Physics, all them other schools of physics...). All we know is that they DO exist, and build our knowledge upon this fact.

The same goes for God, there is no real reason why He exists, but He does and ideology must be built around that fact.  

ioioouiouiouio

ioioouiouiouio's avatar


ioioouiouiouio

ioioouiouiouio's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:58 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly Wrote:
Did they?


Every time you say that, you disprove your own arguement. If you have some brilliant way of proving, without a reasonable doubt, that God exists, then please share it with us. If not, then please stp using the 'lack of definitive facts' arguement to disprove something.  
Reply
Debate and Discussion

Goto Page: 1 2 3 ... 4 5 6 7 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get Items
Get Gaia Cash
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games