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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:09 pm
Something has been bothering me for a while.

A couple months ago a girl that goes to my church started having seizures, the kind where one whole side of your body twitches every few seconds. This has been going on for a while now, and as far as I know, it has continued to the present.

But here's the thing... almost everyone in the church has been praying for her to be healed. Laying on hands, prayer, everything. I can't recall the scripture offhand, but I remember hearing that Jesus said that if we believe him, then we would be able to cast out demons and heal like he did.

I can't speak for the faith of everyone in my church, but I know there are at least some that have strong faith, and it has been starting to bother me more and more. Isn't there another scripture that tells us to lay on hands and pray? So why do I get the impression that it just isn't working like it's suppost to?

I just wonder, is there something that we're missing? Whatever people have to add I would like to hear. If it's true that Jesus has passed his ability to heal on to us (and I think it is), then I think we should know how to access it. Maybe the way with think about faith and the world has changed too much in recent times? More than just this one case though, if Jesus did pass the ability to heal onto us, we should be the people that others come to for healing.

I was looking through my bible just before making this post, and I came up with a short list here from the NLT that are related to the topic:

Luke 8:43-48
43 And there was a woman in the crowd who had had a hemorrhage for twelve years. She had spent everything she had on doctors [fn] and still could find no cure
44 She came up behind Jesus and touched the fringe of his robe. Immediately, the bleeding stopped
45 "Who touched me?" Jesus asked. Everyone denied it, and Peter said, "Master, this whole crowd is pressing up against you."
46 But Jesus told him, "No, someone deliberately touched me, for I felt healing power go out from me."
47 When the woman realized that Jesus knew, she began to tremble and fell to her knees before him. The whole crowd heard her explain why she had touched him and that she had been immediately healed.
48 "Daughter," he said to her, "your faith has made you well. Go in peace."

Luke 9:49-50
49 John said to Jesus, "Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons. We tried to stop him because he isn't in our group."
50 But Jesus said, "Don't stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you."

Luke 17:6
"Even if you had faith as small as a mustard seed," the Lord answered, "you could say to this mulberry tree, `May God uproot you and throw you into the sea,' and it would obey you!

Mat 21:21-22
21 Then Jesus told them, "I assure you, if you have faith and don't doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, `May God lift you up and throw you into the sea,' and it will happen.
22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:31 am
What she has isn't demons but a serious psychological condition called Epilepsy. Epilepsy is when you have seizures that make your whole body twitch. It also can make you have delusions of grandeur. What she needs isn't "faith healing" but to see a psychologist, and or a neurologist. I don't believe in faith healing because the conditions for these things are serious psychological disorders and people mistake them for demons. People did that back when the Bible was written because they had no idea what went on in the human mind nor did they have the understanding for it. Those that claimed to see demons or looked like they were possessed by demons probably had schizophrenia or epilepsy. It's best to look up both and treatments for both for this girl at your church it can and will help here.  

Neferet -House of Night-

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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:47 am
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
What she has isn't demons but a serious psychological condition called Epilepsy. Epilepsy is when you have seizures that make your whole body twitch. It also can make you have delusions of grandeur. What she needs isn't "faith healing" but to see a psychologist, and or a neurologist. I don't believe in faith healing because the conditions for these things are serious psychological disorders and people mistake them for demons. People did that back when the Bible was written because they had no idea what went on in the human mind nor did they have the understanding for it. Those that claimed to see demons or looked like they were possessed by demons probably had schizophrenia or epilepsy. It's best to look up both and treatments for both for this girl at your church it can and will help here.


I should of mentioned that she had been seeking traditional medical treatments also, and that to my knowledge, none of those have worked.

Aside from that, if it is a symptom that comes from something in the physical body (chemical imbalance, nerves misfiring, etc) I think it would fall under the disease portion, if not the demons portion.  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:42 am
i dont think its demons.....there was a girl who went to my school has epilepsy quite often, and it was certain foods that caused it, like e.g. lamb and stuff (probably body rejecting certain food). She has to avoid those food and take medication.  

No place like 127 0 0 1

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Neferet -House of Night-

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:54 am
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
What she has isn't demons but a serious psychological condition called Epilepsy. Epilepsy is when you have seizures that make your whole body twitch. It also can make you have delusions of grandeur. What she needs isn't "faith healing" but to see a psychologist, and or a neurologist. I don't believe in faith healing because the conditions for these things are serious psychological disorders and people mistake them for demons. People did that back when the Bible was written because they had no idea what went on in the human mind nor did they have the understanding for it. Those that claimed to see demons or looked like they were possessed by demons probably had schizophrenia or epilepsy. It's best to look up both and treatments for both for this girl at your church it can and will help here.


I should of mentioned that she had been seeking traditional medical treatments also, and that to my knowledge, none of those have worked.

Aside from that, if it is a symptom that comes from something in the physical body (chemical imbalance, nerves misfiring, etc) I think it would fall under the disease portion, if not the demons portion.
It's not a disease. It's a disorder of the CNS or Central Nervous System. Read the articles on it: http://www.epilepsy.com/EPILEPSY/epilepsy_brain . I believe the "cure" for epliepsy is medication but a split brain surgery. I can't remember. >.<. But there is also another article on the history of Epliepsy one of which comes from the Bible and tells of Jesus healing a young man that has epilepsy. http://www.epilepsy.com/EPILEPSY/history  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:34 am
Just because someone is prayed for, doesn't mean they will be healed.

They will be healed (through traditional medicine, or miraculously) if GOD decides to heal them - and sometimes he doesn't.

2 Corinthians 12:7-10
And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

Sometimes it is for the greater good that a person is not healed.

God isn't a celestial slot machine, put prayer in one way and out comes a healing.  

Sybil Unrest

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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:10 pm
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
ShideKnight Wrote:
Dark Angel Rai Wrote:
What she has isn't demons but a serious psychological condition called Epilepsy. Epilepsy is when you have seizures that make your whole body twitch. It also can make you have delusions of grandeur. What she needs isn't "faith healing" but to see a psychologist, and or a neurologist. I don't believe in faith healing because the conditions for these things are serious psychological disorders and people mistake them for demons. People did that back when the Bible was written because they had no idea what went on in the human mind nor did they have the understanding for it. Those that claimed to see demons or looked like they were possessed by demons probably had schizophrenia or epilepsy. It's best to look up both and treatments for both for this girl at your church it can and will help here.


I should of mentioned that she had been seeking traditional medical treatments also, and that to my knowledge, none of those have worked.

Aside from that, if it is a symptom that comes from something in the physical body (chemical imbalance, nerves misfiring, etc) I think it would fall under the disease portion, if not the demons portion.
It's not a disease. It's a disorder of the CNS or Central Nervous System. Read the articles on it: http://www.epilepsy.com/EPILEPSY/epilepsy_brain . I believe the "cure" for epliepsy is medication but a split brain surgery. I can't remember. >.<. But there is also another article on the history of Epliepsy one of which comes from the Bible and tells of Jesus healing a young man that has epilepsy. http://www.epilepsy.com/EPILEPSY/history


Well... there you go. Demon or disease or disorder, it's all the same in the end, don't you think? I suspect the categories only matter to science anyways.

I had a friend in middle school and high school who had epilepsy. I think she had taken medicine as well... and then just ended up getting the surgery to stop her seizures.

By the way... nice avatar changes ^_^

Sybil Unrest Wrote:
Just because someone is prayed for, doesn't mean they will be healed.

They will be healed (through traditional medicine, or miraculously) if GOD decides to heal them - and sometimes he doesn't.

2 Corinthians 12:7-10
And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

Sometimes it is for the greater good that a person is not healed.

God isn't a celestial slot machine, put prayer in one way and out comes a healing.


Yes, but at the same time the whole faith is based around the idea that God has a heart for us to heal us and make us whole. It is said that complete healing will not come until Heaven, but it is also said that we can begin to receive his blessings here on Earth, and health is suppost to be one of those blessings, right?

My intuition says that something might be in the way, that's all. I mean, if there is something in the way, then we should get rid of it so we can build God's kingdom on Earth more effectively.  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:33 pm
XD The problem is sitting right there! God did NOT "pass on" his healing ability. We have no ability at all. Never have. He does all the healing, not us. No matter HOW strongly you believe it, it ain't gonna happen.

The sooner you realise that, the better. We. Are. Powerless. Through GOD all things are possible. Not through man-who-god-gave-impressive-healing-abilities. XD

And, as far as I know, there isn't anywhere in the bible that says praying or laying-on-of-hands will cure you every time. It's God's powers and God's choice. You can believe all the right things and in all the right amounts and do all the right things.... and still nothing will happen. It is through God's grace that it happens at all.

She's like that for a reason. It doesn't matter why, only that God has a purpose. Trying to heal her before God is ready will only result in failure.

But don't give up! I'm not saying that at all! I'm just saying: Don't rely on prayer to heal everything.

That's what God gave us Doctors for!! XD

If you want to pray, pray that the doctors find out what is wrong with her and find a way to cure it.


Btw, I'm praying for her too. ^w^  

Aquiella

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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:43 pm
But... there are instances of the apostles and Paul healing and casting out demons in the Gospels and in Acts, if I heard right. As I quoted above, there are actual comments Jesus made that point to Him passing on ability to us. Plus, isn't there an instruction for prayer and laying on hands?

I don't mean to propose that we have power apart from God, what I propose is that He wants to bless us and heal us, and is holding back for a reason... a good reason, I am sure. I want to know what that reason is, and I want to try and get it out of the way.

Edit: And, thanks for the prayers. I'm sure she'd appreciate it ^_^  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:04 pm
...that's not what I meant. smilies/icon_sweatdrop.gif

It is prolly just not in God's will at the moment. If /god wants to heal her, He'll do it in His own time, not anyone elses.

...and you completely dodged my "God allows doctors for a reason" comment. XD  

Aquiella

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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:34 pm
Aquiella Wrote:
...and you completely dodged my "God allows doctors for a reason" comment. XD


Hehehe... so I did.

Well, I suppose if God has chosen doctors to be the way to do things these days, then there's a good reason for it, but honestly it just seems like a needless step.

It's just that, like I said, I bet there is a more direct way to go about things....  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:05 pm
The direct way isn't always the best/safest way.

(I love analogies. smilies/icon_heart.gif )
A girl is walking down the street. She sees a truck coming. In the path of the truck is a small boy.

She has ONLY these two choices.

The Indirect Way: Shout to the kid to get out of the way. (Downside: kid may react slow and get mooshed.)

Direct Way: Run over and push the kid out of the street yourself. (downside: she gets hit by the truck. possibly wounded. probably fatally.)

The direct way may seem like a good idea at the time, but may ultimately end up being wrong.  

Aquiella

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ShideKnight

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:18 pm
Meh... lives are on the line eaither way. I just don't know, there doesn't seem to be any good reason why things wouldn't work directly. If not all the time, then at least when it's okay for them to work out that way... you know?  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:49 pm
*smile* The Lord has a purpose. It will be taken care of in God's time.

If her being like that has an effect on whether or not someone gets saved, would you still cure her?

I have a paralyzed left arm. Bike vs. Truck incident a week before my 10th birthday.

My Dad kept having churches lay hands on me and pray for me to be healed. With no results.

But if I HAD been healed, I wouldn't have met many of the awesome friends I have today. I wouldn't have gotten my little brother saved. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you guys. The doctor's wouldn't have caught my Mom's lung disease early enough to treat it.

My Mom would be dead if I'd been healed.

Do you still think I should have been healed? Do you still think your friend should?

Don't worry about it. God has a plan! And I've read the ending. We win. smilies/icon_heart.gif

btw, it's been almost 10 years since it happened. I have no regrets. And I have no problem's with daily life! I adapted. She will too, given the chance and the time.  

Aquiella

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Ricette

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:41 pm
Well none of you are doctors so none can say whats up. I am not a doctor either and while a lot of epilepsy is triggered by things and is hard ot find the right medications for, it can be controlled. Its not something to be healed or cured with prayer and laying of hands. Thats just bogus and stupid. Yes we can heal, thorugh music, love and laughter, and medical science. She may have a really ersistant and stubborn form of epilepsy and there are ways to help. BUt yeah none of us are doctors and we don't have her patient files in front of us so we relaly can't say that medicines will never work. And Aquiella, whikle yes things happen and go for a reason, leaving it all up to God is not the way to do it. And well, agian we can heal. Not wiht layingo f hands and a lot of useless prayer, but through science and our own ingenuity. Herbs, medications, treatments. We can heal, just not in the wonderous biblical way.  
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