Welcome to Gaia! ::

*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

Back to Guilds

 

 

Reply Debate and Discussion
Biblical Womanhood and Manhood, Feminism, and the Family Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Submit

We Dont Negotiate

We Dont Negotiate's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:20 am
I for one would "hate" to have any form of Submissive wife,the very idea that i should somehow have a "final decision" is proposterous, i mean im an idiot, i was sixteen before i could safely use the Washing machine...i once washed the dishes with Bleech

A woman should have an equal say in any relationship in all decisions and all aspects, besides the "practicallity" of a stay at home wife is a bit silly, it relys on finding a husband that can bring in such a huge wage that they could support what is for all intents and purposes there lazy wife.

My mom and dad both worked for there entire adult lives, and we scraped by, if one of them had decided to stop we would have been below the poverty line by a large margin. They both worked 9-5 and we worked together to keep the house spotless , we all cooked the meals, did the garden. No stay at home mom was needed.

In case you havent noticed the cost of living is not cheap, and anyone who thinks that they can be a stay at home wife in this day and age is frankly living in LaLa world , unless they catch themself a "very very" well of husband. I mean even Doctors and Teachers would have trouble supporting a family being the only source of income.

The Verses you have used to support your claims of Submissiveness i noticed are both OT verses, which were rules in place for "The jews" and the jewish tribes, they do not relate to the modern world.

blergh  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:14 am
We Dont Negotiate Wrote:
I for one would "hate" to have any form of Submissive wife,the very idea that i should somehow have a "final decision" is proposterous, i mean im an idiot, i was sixteen before i could safely use the Washing machine...i once washed the dishes with Bleech

A woman should have an equal say in any relationship in all decisions and all aspects, besides the "practicallity" of a stay at home wife is a bit silly, it relys on finding a husband that can bring in such a huge wage that they could support what is for all intents and purposes there lazy wife.

My mom and dad both worked for there entire adult lives, and we scraped by, if one of them had decided to stop we would have been below the poverty line by a large margin. They both worked 9-5 and we worked together to keep the house spotless , we all cooked the meals, did the garden. No stay at home mom was needed.

In case you havent noticed the cost of living is not cheap, and anyone who thinks that they can be a stay at home wife in this day and age is frankly living in LaLa world , unless they catch themself a "very very" well of husband. I mean even Doctors and Teachers would have trouble supporting a family being the only source of income.

The Verses you have used to support your claims of Submissiveness i noticed are both OT verses, which were rules in place for "The jews" and the jewish tribes, they do not relate to the modern world.

blergh

First of all, both of the verses I cited (Ephesians 5:21-33 & Colossians 3:19-21) are from the New Testament ... and I can't find anywhere where I cited a verse from the Old Testament. smilies/icon_confused.gif

Second of all ... I have to sigh. And refer you to this article: The Marks of Manhood, by Dr. Albert Mohler.

And thirdly, there are ways to survive on single-income households. I personally grew up and currently live with a single mom, and we get along all right. I think it just depends on what you spend your money on. In our current society, where each member of the household has to have their own TV, game console, iPod, computer, cell phone, etc., of course no one could survive on a single income!

I didn't have my own bedroom until I was 13, and that was only because we were lucky enough to find a house with enough bedrooms. I would be more than willing to share a room with my sister now if we couldn't find a big enough house in our price range. Plus, if I didn't stay at home, my mom would go nuts.
 

Mountain Rose

Mountain Rose's avatar


SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar

Wheezing Lunatic

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:34 am
We Dont Negotiate Wrote:
A woman should have an equal say in any relationship in all decisions and all aspects, besides the "practicallity" of a stay at home wife is a bit silly, it relys on finding a husband that can bring in such a huge wage that they could support what is for all intents and purposes there lazy wife.
I just want to take a moment to point out that just because a woman does not have a professional career doesn't mean that she's lazy. My mother did not work after my second sister (third child) was born, but she also raised six children...if that's not a 24/7/365 job, then I don't know what is.

That aside, however, I do agree with you. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a job that can support an entire household. I was on the verge of homelessness several times when I had only my income to live off. That was just for myself, mind you. If I'd had to support a spouse and a child(ren), we would have been on the streets. And I was by no means living lavishly. I didn't own much more than a few changes of clothes, a matress, and some make-shift shelves.

Even now that I'm done with school and my household is supported by two incomes and still living by no means lavishly, we could not survive on only one of those incomes. We live in a big city, and big cities are expensive.

OP, I'm a little unclear as to whether or not you think that every woman should be a baby-making second-class citizen, or if you're simply saying that you personally aspire to be a stay-at-home mother.  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:48 am
Mountain Rose Wrote:
We Dont Negotiate Wrote:
I for one would "hate" to have any form of Submissive wife,the very idea that i should somehow have a "final decision" is proposterous, i mean im an idiot, i was sixteen before i could safely use the Washing machine...i once washed the dishes with Bleech

A woman should have an equal say in any relationship in all decisions and all aspects, besides the "practicallity" of a stay at home wife is a bit silly, it relys on finding a husband that can bring in such a huge wage that they could support what is for all intents and purposes there lazy wife.

My mom and dad both worked for there entire adult lives, and we scraped by, if one of them had decided to stop we would have been below the poverty line by a large margin. They both worked 9-5 and we worked together to keep the house spotless , we all cooked the meals, did the garden. No stay at home mom was needed.

In case you havent noticed the cost of living is not cheap, and anyone who thinks that they can be a stay at home wife in this day and age is frankly living in LaLa world , unless they catch themself a "very very" well of husband. I mean even Doctors and Teachers would have trouble supporting a family being the only source of income.

The Verses you have used to support your claims of Submissiveness i noticed are both OT verses, which were rules in place for "The jews" and the jewish tribes, they do not relate to the modern world.

blergh

First of all, both of the verses I cited (Ephesians 5:21-33 & Colossians 3:19-21) are from the New Testament ... and I can't find anywhere where I cited a verse from the Old Testament. smilies/icon_confused.gif

Second of all ... I have to sigh. And refer you to this article: The Marks of Manhood, by Dr. Albert Mohler.

And thirdly, there are ways to survive on single-income households. I personally grew up and currently live with a single mom, and we get along all right. I think it just depends on what you spend your money on. In our current society, where each member of the household has to have their own TV, game console, iPod, computer, cell phone, etc., of course no one could survive on a single income!

I didn't have my own bedroom until I was 13, and that was only because we were lucky enough to find a house with enough bedrooms. I would be more than willing to share a room with my sister now if we couldn't find a big enough house in our price range. Plus, if I didn't stay at home, my mom would go nuts.


A) I Appologise they are indeed NT i was so blinded by rage i somehow missed this. But even so the writer of Esphians, was not Jesus he was a man, giving commentry on how "he thought" woman should act, in accordance to what a male dominate sociaty would want.

Convineantly in the councill when they decided what books to use for the NT and what books not to, they missed out books such as the Gospel of Judas or the Gospel of Paul, both of which portrayed woman in a highly valube and dominant role, disobaying there husbands left right and center overthrowing poor decisions and being Rewarded for it.

Seems to me just another example of early Male Chauvanism.

B) That article has no relevance whatsoever, are you questioning my manhood? or are you trying to back up your veiw that the Man must be the breadwinner. If the latter is the case, i point you to the fact that the article is in terms to "The Biblical veiw of manhood" not the "Realistic veiw of the world".

Yes there are way's to "survive" on single paerant income ive no dout, but from what you described...it was a hard life and i personally would want to give my children and family as comfterble a life as possible, and if i could do this by getting a job i would very much do so.

Plus i point you to "Todays" current Financial market, were banks are going Bust , major retail outlets are dropping of like flys (Just Yesterday two MAJOR British firms went into Admin) , where in my area at least the price of milk and other commoditys has gone up 30-40% in the past two years while wages barely raised 4%. Where the price of getting a House/flat or appartment is Astronomicle and the Bills to pay a Mortgage or Rent is at an all time high, where "everyone" i know is tightning there belt just to scrape by

This horfficly expensive financial time isnt going to pass by next year, or the year after..were going to be dealing with this for a long time.

It is not the Era for the stay at home wife, no matter how dreamy it might be, it is the Era of Practicallity and very very few, are going to be fourtunate enough to be able to Stay at home playing House.

C) Why do you belive that men should have the final role in Decisions? i mean im a Guy and all so i might not know, but even "i" veiw that as demeening to the Equality youve fought to get.  

We Dont Negotiate

We Dont Negotiate's avatar


Mountain Rose

Mountain Rose's avatar

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:04 am
We Dont Negotiate Wrote:
Mountain Rose Wrote:
We Dont Negotiate Wrote:
I for one would "hate" to have any form of Submissive wife,the very idea that i should somehow have a "final decision" is proposterous, i mean im an idiot, i was sixteen before i could safely use the Washing machine...i once washed the dishes with Bleech

A woman should have an equal say in any relationship in all decisions and all aspects, besides the "practicallity" of a stay at home wife is a bit silly, it relys on finding a husband that can bring in such a huge wage that they could support what is for all intents and purposes there lazy wife.

My mom and dad both worked for there entire adult lives, and we scraped by, if one of them had decided to stop we would have been below the poverty line by a large margin. They both worked 9-5 and we worked together to keep the house spotless , we all cooked the meals, did the garden. No stay at home mom was needed.

In case you havent noticed the cost of living is not cheap, and anyone who thinks that they can be a stay at home wife in this day and age is frankly living in LaLa world , unless they catch themself a "very very" well of husband. I mean even Doctors and Teachers would have trouble supporting a family being the only source of income.

The Verses you have used to support your claims of Submissiveness i noticed are both OT verses, which were rules in place for "The jews" and the jewish tribes, they do not relate to the modern world.

blergh

First of all, both of the verses I cited (Ephesians 5:21-33 & Colossians 3:19-21) are from the New Testament ... and I can't find anywhere where I cited a verse from the Old Testament. smilies/icon_confused.gif

Second of all ... I have to sigh. And refer you to this article: The Marks of Manhood, by Dr. Albert Mohler.

And thirdly, there are ways to survive on single-income households. I personally grew up and currently live with a single mom, and we get along all right. I think it just depends on what you spend your money on. In our current society, where each member of the household has to have their own TV, game console, iPod, computer, cell phone, etc., of course no one could survive on a single income!

I didn't have my own bedroom until I was 13, and that was only because we were lucky enough to find a house with enough bedrooms. I would be more than willing to share a room with my sister now if we couldn't find a big enough house in our price range. Plus, if I didn't stay at home, my mom would go nuts.


A) I Appologise they are indeed NT i was so blinded by rage i somehow missed this. But even so the writer of Esphians, was not Jesus he was a man, giving commentry on how "he thought" woman should act, in accordance to what a male dominate sociaty would want.

Convineantly in the councill when they decided what books to use for the NT and what books not to, they missed out books such as the Gospel of Judas or the Gospel of Paul, both of which portrayed woman in a highly valube and dominant role, disobaying there husbands left right and center overthrowing poor decisions and being Rewarded for it.

Seems to me just another example of early Male Chauvanism.

B) That article has no relevance whatsoever, are you questioning my manhood? or are you trying to back up your veiw that the Man must be the breadwinner. If the latter is the case, i point you to the fact that the article is in terms to "The Biblical veiw of manhood" not the "Realistic veiw of the world".

Yes there are way's to "survive" on single paerant income ive no dout, but from what you described...it was a hard life and i personally would want to give my children and family as comfterble a life as possible, and if i could do this by getting a job i would very much do so.

Plus i point you to "Todays" current Financial market, were banks are going Bust , major retail outlets are dropping of like flys (Just Yesterday two MAJOR British firms went into Admin) , where in my area at least the price of milk and other commoditys has gone up 30-40% in the past two years while wages barely raised 4%. Where the price of getting a House/flat or appartment is Astronomicle and the Bills to pay a Mortgage or Rent is at an all time high, where "everyone" i know is tightning there belt just to scrape by

This horfficly expensive financial time isnt going to pass by next year, or the year after..were going to be dealing with this for a long time.

It is not the Era for the stay at home wife, no matter how dreamy it might be, it is the Era of Practicallity and very very few, are going to be fourtunate enough to be able to Stay at home playing House.

C) Why do you belive that men should have the final role in Decisions? i mean im a Guy and all so i might not know, but even "i" veiw that as demeening to the Equality youve fought to get.

In response to A: As it so happens, I'm basing my arguements on the Bible, what was kept in at the Council of Nicaea, and the belief that everything in the Bible was inspired by God.

In my personal opinion, God knew how influential the Bible would become, and therefore influenced man to choose the books that were chosen. The others were left out for a reason, obviously unknown to anyone but God.

In response to B: I apologize. I was not questioning your manhood, personally. I simply think it is fascinating that our society is pretending to raise up leaders, with seminars, retreats, and high school clubs specially dedicated to it, and yet men are not even expected to be leaders in their own households.

The economy is never certain. There were many stay-at-home moms during the Great Depression, my great-grandmother one of them. Of course, it was very hard for even a man to find a job, but I think that stay-at-home moms would have persisted still.

I heard a talk-show host on the radio the other day say that the size of houses has doubled and the size of familes has halved. I don't think everyone needs a TV, or even a computer, though my family is obviously blessed enough to have both. I think that people are just too pressured; they think they need to have all these things, when really they can do very well without them.

In response to C: First of all, feminists were not fighting for equality, they were fighting for the right to be men, in a sense. Christ had given us the greatest form of equality ("There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28, NLT). That doesn't mean that there is no difference between men and women because there certainly are differences; it just makes women as important as men. We are no longer property; we are equally children of God and just as worthy of his inheritance.

Spiritually, there is no difference between us; we are equal. Physically and emotionally, however, we are quite different, and we have different roles as God's creations. Just a reminder of God's curses after The Fall (Genesis 3:16-19, NLT, emphasis added):

Quote:
Then he said to the woman,

“I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy,
and in pain you will give birth.
And you will desire to control your husband,
but he will rule over you.


And to the man he said,

“Since you listened to your wife and ate from the tree
whose fruit I commanded you not to eat,
the ground is cursed because of you.
All your life you will struggle to scratch a living from it.
It will grow thorns and thistles for you,
though you will eat of its grains.
By the sweat of your brow
will you have food to eat

until you return to the ground
from which you were made.
For you were made from dust,
and to dust you will return.”

 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:17 am
SinfulGuillotine Wrote:
OP, I'm a little unclear as to whether or not you think that every woman should be a baby-making second-class citizen, or if you're simply saying that you personally aspire to be a stay-at-home mother.

I do need to clarify this. Truly, I aspire to be a stay-at-home mom, but not because that's the only thing I think I could do with my life or because it's the only thing I think will make me happy. I want to be one because I think that the Bible gave specific instructions to women. "These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children, to live wisely and be pure, to work in their homes, to do good, and to be submissive to their husbands. Then they will not bring shame on the word of God" (Titus 2:4-5, NLT, emphasis added).

Some other verses I believe in whole-heartedly (albeit, out of order):
1 Timothy 2:9-15
1 Corinthians 11:8-12
Ephesians 5:21-33
Colossians 3:19-21
Genesis 3:16-19
Proverbs 31:10-31
 

Mountain Rose

Mountain Rose's avatar


SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar

Wheezing Lunatic

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:06 am
Mountain Rose Wrote:
SinfulGuillotine Wrote:
OP, I'm a little unclear as to whether or not you think that every woman should be a baby-making second-class citizen, or if you're simply saying that you personally aspire to be a stay-at-home mother.

I do need to clarify this. Truly, I aspire to be a stay-at-home mom, but not because that's the only thing I think I could do with my life or because it's the only thing I think will make me happy. I want to be one because I think that the Bible gave specific instructions to women. "These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children, to live wisely and be pure, to work in their homes, to do good, and to be submissive to their husbands. Then they will not bring shame on the word of God" (Titus 2:4-5, NLT, emphasis added).

Some other verses I believe in whole-heartedly (albeit, out of order):
1 Timothy 2:9-15
1 Corinthians 11:8-12
Ephesians 5:21-33
Colossians 3:19-21
Genesis 3:16-19
Proverbs 31:10-31
That still doesn't exactly answer my question. I wasn't asking what your specific reasons for wishing to be a stay-at-home mother are, but rather, if these are simply the reasons and ways in which you personally feel it is right to live your life, or if you also believe that all women should adhere to your beliefs.

I have a great deal of respect for women who choose to be homemakers, not so much because I feel "that's how it should be," but simply because parenting is effing hard, and I think that men and women alike who put a great deal of time and effort into having a strong family unit are to be commended. But I also recognise that not everyone, be they male or female, is cut out for that sort of lifestyle, and I certainly don't think that women should be bound by their ovaries to never be anything other than a wife and mother.

I was talking to my own mother about a similar topic recently. I have a great deal of love and respect for that woman for raising me and my five siblings and being our primary care-giver (while our father was the primary financial support), but honestly, she gave up a couple of really beautiful gifts to be a "good wife and mother." She was quite a talented pianist and teacher before having three (and eventually six) children to look after pushed that profession out of her life. And she'd never admit it, but I do think that she regrets that. She was raised in a family with very traditional, old-fashioned values where the path she took was really the only way to retain the respect of her family, so she was trapped, and I think that's very unfortunate.

Not to say that it's always unfortunate to need to make sacrifices for the sake of one's family, since needing to make sacrifices comes with the territory of having responsibilities towards others, but I just think it's sad that anyone should have to choose between maintaining the respect and love of their family or persuing a career they love. I've been faced with that choice, and it's not one that I would wish on anyone.

Also, not all women (or people in general) are cut out for married family life, whether that means being the "head of the household" or being a stay-st-home mother. You speak of the differences between men and women, but what of the differences between individuals of both sexes?  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:58 am
SinfulGuillotine Wrote:
Mountain Rose Wrote:
SinfulGuillotine Wrote:
OP, I'm a little unclear as to whether or not you think that every woman should be a baby-making second-class citizen, or if you're simply saying that you personally aspire to be a stay-at-home mother.

I do need to clarify this. Truly, I aspire to be a stay-at-home mom, but not because that's the only thing I think I could do with my life or because it's the only thing I think will make me happy. I want to be one because I think that the Bible gave specific instructions to women. "These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children, to live wisely and be pure, to work in their homes, to do good, and to be submissive to their husbands. Then they will not bring shame on the word of God" (Titus 2:4-5, NLT, emphasis added).

Some other verses I believe in whole-heartedly (albeit, out of order):
1 Timothy 2:9-15
1 Corinthians 11:8-12
Ephesians 5:21-33
Colossians 3:19-21
Genesis 3:16-19
Proverbs 31:10-31
That still doesn't exactly answer my question. I wasn't asking what your specific reasons for wishing to be a stay-at-home mother are, but rather, if these are simply the reasons and ways in which you personally feel it is right to live your life, or if you also believe that all women should adhere to your beliefs.

I have a great deal of respect for women who choose to be homemakers, not so much because I feel "that's how it should be," but simply because parenting is effing hard, and I think that men and women alike who put a great deal of time and effort into having a strong family unit are to be commended. But I also recognise that not everyone, be they male or female, is cut out for that sort of lifestyle, and I certainly don't think that women should be bound by their ovaries to never be anything other than a wife and mother.

I was talking to my own mother about a similar topic recently. I have a great deal of love and respect for that woman for raising me and my five siblings and being our primary care-giver (while our father was the primary financial support), but honestly, she gave up a couple of really beautiful gifts to be a "good wife and mother." She was quite a talented pianist and teacher before having three (and eventually six) children to look after pushed that profession out of her life. And she'd never admit it, but I do think that she regrets that. She was raised in a family with very traditional, old-fashioned values where the path she took was really the only way to retain the respect of her family, so she was trapped, and I think that's very unfortunate.

Not to say that it's always unfortunate to need to make sacrifices for the sake of one's family, since needing to make sacrifices comes with the territory of having responsibilities towards others, but I just think it's sad that anyone should have to choose between maintaining the respect and love of their family or persuing a career they love. I've been faced with that choice, and it's not one that I would wish on anyone.

Also, not all women (or people in general) are cut out for married family life, whether that means being the "head of the household" or being a stay-st-home mother. You speak of the differences between men and women, but what of the differences between individuals of both sexes?


If I asked any true Christian if they thought everyone in the world should turn to Christ, wouldn't they automatically say yes? I was trying to put my answer delicately because of course I think it's every woman's duty as a child of God to be a helpmeet to their husband and to realize their responsibilities in the home. However, I am slightly realistic, in that, I know that will never happen. I know that no matter how many Christian women return home, there will always be people who think it's wrong or stupid.

Many people give up things they love to follow God. They give up having sex outside of marriage, drugs, lazy-ing around all day, and sometimes even their family (parents and siblings, I mean) to submit to God's will for their lives. And they do regret it at times. Ask a former drug addict if there was ever a time after he became a Christian when he felt that he just had to have another ... I don't know drug lingo, but you get what I'm saying? Besides, God sometimes gives people the opportunity to use their talents in their natural roles. Here's a quote from Anna Sofia Botkin and Elizabeth Botkin's book, So Much More:


Quote:
Our father, a very gifted artist, had to lay aside his love of painting in order to focus on his church and family duties. Our mother forfeited a life as a professional musician in order to devote herself to her husband and children. God has often provided them with avenues to use these abilities within the lives they have chosen, but they had to be willing to forsake these to follow Him (Matthew 19:29).


And as far as people not being "cut out for married life," I think I'll just quote one of my favorite books, Getting Serious About Getting Married, by Debbie Maken:

Quote:
The Bible is clear: It is God's will for people to marry ... Genesis 1:26-28 and 2:8-25 reveal that God mandated marriage not just for his people, but for the entire world. Marriage remains God's revealed will (revealed in his Word, the Bible, as what he wants), even if as a culture we have made [the attainment of God's will] an elusive, secret, perpetual guessing game. Scripture states that "God created man in his own image ... male and female he created them" (Genesis 1:27). This means that the male-female union is for God's own glory; marriage reflects his image far better than either sex individually. Because God made us "male and female," we were neither designed nor intended to be completed only by God on this side of heaven; the full expression of maleness and femaleness is found in marriage, not merely relationships with other individuals.


Maken goes on in the next chapter to say that there are, of course, exceptions to that rule, but that they are few (Matthew 9:11-12 states the only kinds of singles the Bible condones).  

Mountain Rose

Mountain Rose's avatar


Mountain Rose

Mountain Rose's avatar

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:33 am
Read an interesting article on manhood today. Pretty sad, really.

Why I Am Leaving Guyland
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:56 am
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 5:21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.

As far as I am concerned, submitting to a male authority because they are male is not something I am required to do. Submitting to earned authority is something I will do.

The way I see it is that Galatians 3:28 is the promise, is the ideal of what we should be - one. There is a unity in Christ and a unity with Christ, and once we are fully in God's will there is no need of submission, for we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

As for anti-feminism, while I am not an extremist, I would describe myself as a feminist. And a liberal Christian besides. I believe Christ to be a feminist for his time, and while some cultural contamination has entered the bible, overall it is not anti-feminist.  

Sybil Unrest

Sybil Unrest's avatar


Mountain Rose

Mountain Rose's avatar

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:15 am
Sybil Unrest Wrote:
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 5:21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.

As far as I am concerned, submitting to a male authority because they are male is not something I am required to do. Submitting to earned authority is something I will do.

The way I see it is that Galatians 3:28 is the promise, is the ideal of what we should be - one. There is a unity in Christ and a unity with Christ, and once we are fully in God's will there is no need of submission, for we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

As for anti-feminism, while I am not an extremist, I would describe myself as a feminist. And a liberal Christian besides. I believe Christ to be a feminist for his time, and while some cultural contamination has entered the bible, overall it is not anti-feminist.

Thanks for your opinion. Although I disagree, I have nothing in particular to say. smilies/icon_xd.gif  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:38 am
BTW, this is my main account now. Mountain Rose is now my mule. Thank you. smilies/icon_xp.gif  

Miss Pagan Rose

Miss Pagan Rose's avatar

Playful Bibliophile

11,800 Points
  • Invisibility 100
  • Lavish Tipper 200
  • Risky Lifestyle 100

Miss Pagan Rose

Miss Pagan Rose's avatar

Playful Bibliophile

11,800 Points
  • Invisibility 100
  • Lavish Tipper 200
  • Risky Lifestyle 100
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:43 am
Here's a cool article that I came across on Vision Forum. It's from their "Uniting Church and Family" section of articles.

Our Church Youth Group

Uniting Church and Family
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:30 am
Yet another interesting article from Vision Forum Ministries! smilies/icon_whee.gif

Christian Graduations and Young Ladies
 

Miss Pagan Rose

Miss Pagan Rose's avatar

Playful Bibliophile

11,800 Points
  • Invisibility 100
  • Lavish Tipper 200
  • Risky Lifestyle 100

Miss Pagan Rose

Miss Pagan Rose's avatar

Playful Bibliophile

11,800 Points
  • Invisibility 100
  • Lavish Tipper 200
  • Risky Lifestyle 100
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:19 am
I wrote a blog. smilies/icon_whee.gif

The Mega-Church Versus The Family-Integrated Church
 
Reply
Debate and Discussion

Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games