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 Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:57 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:23 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:13 pm
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8Ares8 My personal answer.
- Point B: The Greeks idea of Hades was actually close to what the bible describes through bits&pieces in the bible--- For the saints and prophets etc... went to be with God but not in heaven, every one else that died before Christ did or never heard of Him went to a place of waiting...
Prophets and believers of the "Old Testament" times were sent to Abraham's Bosom (Luke 16). So, I agree with this point.
8Ares8 - Point A: The Bible says that there is no time after death... ergo everyone that never heard of Christ would be in the same place at the same time... Main point: when Christ was gone for those three days till He rose He preached to those in waiting those who accepted Him went to heaven those who didn't went to hell.
The work of Christ after his crucifixion was final, done, complete. I don't see Abraham's Bosom opened to those who never heard the gospel. Not to mention, there is no personal freewill to accept Christ. Those who believe have be predestined to accept Christ according to God's sovereign will. (Eph 1:3-14) |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:45 am
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Reformed Baptist 8Ares8 My personal answer.
- Point B: The Greeks idea of Hades was actually close to what the bible describes through bits&pieces in the bible--- For the saints and prophets etc... went to be with God but not in heaven, every one else that died before Christ did or never heard of Him went to a place of waiting...Prophets and believers of the "Old Testament" times were sent to Abraham's Bosom (Luke 16). So, I agree with this point. 8Ares8 - Point A: The Bible says that there is no time after death... ergo everyone that never heard of Christ would be in the same place at the same time... Main point: when Christ was gone for those three days till He rose He preached to those in waiting those who accepted Him went to heaven those who didn't went to hell. The work of Christ after his crucifixion was finally, done, complete. I don't see Abraham's Bosom opened to those who never heard the gospel. Not to mention, there is no personal freewill to accept Christ. Those who believe have be predestined to accept Christ according to God's sovereign will. (Eph 1:3-14)
were you really a Baptist?
ya know
I dated a baptist once
that girl was crazy
she...nevermind...I'm off topic again
but really? |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:19 pm
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lordstar were you really a Baptist?
she...nevermind...I'm off topic again
but really?
*sigh* But really... predestination happened...
Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Oh yaaa!! whee |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:28 pm
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Reformed Baptist lordstar were you really a Baptist?
she...nevermind...I'm off topic again
but really?Yes, I am a Baptist. *wait...* Make that a "Reformed" Baptist. wink *sigh* But really... predestination happened... Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. Oh yaaa!! whee
So if everyone is predestined to accept Jesus or not, what is the point in doing anything since everything is already determined to happen? |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:35 pm
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divineseraph Reformed Baptist lordstar were you really a Baptist?
she...nevermind...I'm off topic again
but really?Yes, I am a Baptist. *wait...* Make that a "Reformed" Baptist. wink *sigh* But really... predestination happened... Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. Oh yaaa!! whee So if everyone is predestined to accept Jesus or not, what is the point in doing anything since everything is already determined to happen?
not this again
rolleyes |
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:55 am
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lordstar divineseraph Reformed Baptist lordstar were you really a Baptist?
she...nevermind...I'm off topic again
but really?Yes, I am a Baptist. *wait...* Make that a "Reformed" Baptist. wink *sigh* But really... predestination happened... Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. Oh yaaa!! whee So if everyone is predestined to accept Jesus or not, what is the point in doing anything since everything is already determined to happen? not this again rolleyes
I'm sorry, I enjoy stirring up critical thinking.
Was it Socrates who said that a life unanalyzed is a life not worth living? |
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:44 am
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divineseraph So if everyone is predestined to accept Jesus or not, what is the point in doing anything since everything is already determined to happen?
As it is written: "I loved Jacob but hated Esau." What then are we to say? Is there injustice on the part of God? Of course not! For he says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I will, I will take pity on whom I will." So it depends not upon a person's will or exertion, but upon God, who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "This is why I have raised you up, to show my power through you that my name may be proclaimed throughout the earth."
Consequently, he has mercy upon whom he wills, and he hardens whom he wills. You will say to me then, "Why (then) does he still find fault? For who can oppose his will?" But who indeed are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Will what is made say to its maker,"Why have you created me so?" Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for a noble purpose and another for an ignoble one? What if God, wishing to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the abhorrent vesssels made for destruction? This was to make known the riches of his glory to the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared previously for glory. - Romans 9:13-23
Some emphasis added... |
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:05 am
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IcarusDream divineseraph So if everyone is predestined to accept Jesus or not, what is the point in doing anything since everything is already determined to happen? As it is written: "I loved Jacob but hated Esau." What then are we to say? Is there injustice on the part of God? Of course not! For he says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I will, I will take pity on whom I will." So it depends not upon a person's will or exertion, but upon God, who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "This is why I have raised you up, to show my power through you that my name may be proclaimed throughout the earth." Consequently, he has mercy upon whom he wills, and he hardens whom he wills. You will say to me then, "Why (then) does he still find fault? For who can oppose his will?" But who indeed are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Will what is made say to its maker,"Why have you created me so?" Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for a noble purpose and another for an ignoble one? What if God, wishing to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the abhorrent vesssels made for destruction? This was to make known the riches of his glory to the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared previously for glory. - Romans 9:13-23 Some emphasis added...
But that's my point- If the predestination applies to human beings, then it was our very DESTINY to deny God or accept God. It was not a choice or act, there was no acceptance possible since before we were even born. Firstly, reasonably, why would God claim to give us free will, if that free will is to follow a set course in time? And if we are indeed pre determined to do what we will do, how can God fault us, knowing that we are but automatons in his machine? |
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:17 pm
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divineseraph lordstar divineseraph Reformed Baptist lordstar were you really a Baptist?
she...nevermind...I'm off topic again
but really?Yes, I am a Baptist. *wait...* Make that a "Reformed" Baptist. wink *sigh* But really... predestination happened... Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. Oh yaaa!! whee So if everyone is predestined to accept Jesus or not, what is the point in doing anything since everything is already determined to happen? not this again rolleyes I'm sorry, I enjoy stirring up critical thinking. Was it Socrates who said that a life unanalyzed is a life not worth living?
I enjoy a good bout of critical thinking
I just remember what it was like last time this matter came up
but then again we do have some new faces yes? |
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:01 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:31 pm
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Hence:
"The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth" - John 1:9-14
and
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him" - John 14:6-7
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