Double Standard

[ChibiLi]

I feel there's a double standard with pro-choircers.

They feel that they're obligated to kill and/or abandon the notion of being mothers, yet when a man decides to CHOOSE not to be a father, he's an inconsiderate a*****e? What about the woman who decided to kill her child? So she's NOT inconsiderate?

Listen pro-choice people (who I doubt are in this guild), I have an ultamadam(sp?) for you. Either give men an equal chance of wanting to be a father or not, or shut the (beep) up about wanting a choice.

Women can't make children by themselves. It's scientifically impossible. So give men a damn chance too (and I am aware that I'm not addressing all situations 3nodding )

Ok. Ranting over. Back to cuteness. heart

 

[ChibiLi]

Oops. sweatdrop

Can the guild staff member person move my topic? I'm so hopelessly ditzy that I slightly posted this in the wrong forum. I'm so sorry guys, I'm really not that smart, y'know gonk

 

[Tarrou]

Done and done. Welcome to the debate subforum.  

[ChibiLi]

Tarrou

Done and done. Welcome to the debate subforum.

xd Hahaha thanks!

 

[ChibiLi]

; 3;

 

[lordstar]

ChibiLi

I feel there's a double standard with pro-choircers.

They feel that they're obligated to kill and/or abandon the notion of being mothers, yet when a man decides to CHOOSE not to be a father, he's an inconsiderate a*****e? What about the woman who decided to kill her child? So she's NOT inconsiderate?

Listen pro-choice people (who I doubt are in this guild), I have an ultamadam(sp?) for you. Either give men an equal chance of wanting to be a father or not, or shut the (beep) up about wanting a choice.

Women can't make children by themselves. It's scientifically impossible. So give men a damn chance too (and I am aware that I'm not addressing all situations 3nodding )

Ok. Ranting over. Back to cuteness. heart

I am pro-choice (figures doesn't it)

your right
there is a doubble standard

I'm not sure how to go about giving men the same opertunity to choose

how about a man must be informed before the end of the 4th week and should sign a contract by the end of week 6

in the event there is no contract then the man is released from liability and it becomes the responsibility of the woman

how does that sound (I know its not perfect)
so lets talk about it shall we  

[Mein Kulturkampf]

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.  

[lordstar]

Mein Kulturkampf

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.

I was talking about getting a signed document with the default being no
The choice over an abortion is for women alone, however, a man should have the choice to not give support.

I think it makes more sense to have the default be no so that there is no question about approval.

Also with a time frame we can avoid last minute changing of the mind  

[ChibiLi]

Mein Kulturkampf

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.

That's not like how it sounds at all. It sounds exacly like what men are going through currently.

gonk That didn't even make any sense!!

And again, why only the woman's choice? She didn't fertilize the baby all by herself. The baby was created by the woman AND man. Therefore, just as much as it's the woman's responsibility, men should have just as much say in it.

 

[ChibiLi]

lordstar

Mein Kulturkampf

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.

I was talking about getting a signed document with the default being no
The choice over an abortion is for women alone, however, a man should have the choice to not give support.

I think it makes more sense to have the default be no so that there is no question about approval.

Also with a time frame we can avoid last minute changing of the mind

Ok you made it make waaay more sense. So THATS how to eliminate the double standard. Too bad it's about abortion though stressed

 

[lordstar]

ChibiLi

lordstar

Mein Kulturkampf

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.

I was talking about getting a signed document with the default being no
The choice over an abortion is for women alone, however, a man should have the choice to not give support.

I think it makes more sense to have the default be no so that there is no question about approval.

Also with a time frame we can avoid last minute changing of the mind

Ok you made it make waaay more sense. So THATS how to eliminate the double standard. Too bad it's about abortion though stressed

How to explain it?
Retaining ones rights shall not undermine the rights of another.
its rare to not contradict this statement and so we must figure out what rights come first

in the case of abortion the man has the right to property (Its a technicality so just roll with me on this one)

the woman has the right to life and the use of her own body (kinda attached to it ya know)

you see a man doesn’t have the right to control the property of the woman even if it means not having his rights to his own property inside (there are no granted easements)

not my best explanation but I think we can work through it  

[divineseraph]

But where is the fetus's right to life? All people were once feti, and all feti are people in a stage of development. The fetus was given no choice in it's creation, and is now given no choice even in whether or not it gets to live.  

[lordstar]

divineseraph

But where is the fetus's right to life? All people were once feti, and all feti are people in a stage of development. The fetus was given no choice in it's creation, and is now given no choice even in whether or not it gets to live.

A fetus has no rights. Personally I would say we should give full citizenship along with all the rights associated with citizenship to all things. This does not work does it? That would mean a cabbage has the right not to be eaten. So being a bit more selective about what we grant rights to, let’s say only humans get rights. If that is so than an infant would be able to vote and in theory be able to survive without any mandatory help. This doesn’t work does it? What age do US citizens become full citizens? 16, 18, 21? The answer is 25 oddly enough. If anyone cares to disagree try and rent a car...don't work so well. (age discrimination is the most prominent form of discrimination in the US followed by sexual orientation, then sex, then color, then creed [aprox. so just roll with me on this one]) Who has rights, when do they get them, and what are they? This is going to get just a bit hairy really quick here.  

[promised_child]

lordstar

Mein Kulturkampf

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.

I was talking about getting a signed document with the default being no
The choice over an abortion is for women alone, however, a man should have the choice to not give support.

I think it makes more sense to have the default be no so that there is no question about approval.

Also with a time frame we can avoid last minute changing of the mind

why should the default be no? my father was at the hospital when i was born, then 3 years later he wanted a paternity test. 99.987678998654% chance his kid, then he was ordered to pay 300 in child support. he put himself on welfare. 300 went to 25. we couldnt even afford shoes. if a woman doesnt decide by the 9th month, its usually because she wants the baby. men should be the same way.  

[lordstar]

promised_child

lordstar

Mein Kulturkampf

If you mean giving men a choice as to whther she gets the abortion or not, then absolutely no. That is the woman's choice only.

If you mean giving men a choice as to whether they have to pay child support, then yes. However, the defaulkt would be "yes", the man wants to pay child support. The burden would be on the man to find the woman and make clear to her he doesn't want the child, with an exception being if the woman is avoiding the man in an effort to get child support. Once the child is born, whatever the father has chosen he is stuck with. He cannot get a divorce three years later and say "oh, no moar kiddie nao plz"; that's like the mother murdering the three-year-old.

That better? Now men have exactly as much choice as women when it comes to babies affecting their life.

I was talking about getting a signed document with the default being no
The choice over an abortion is for women alone, however, a man should have the choice to not give support.

I think it makes more sense to have the default be no so that there is no question about approval.

Also with a time frame we can avoid last minute changing of the mind

why should the default be no? my father was at the hospital when i was born, then 3 years later he wanted a paternity test. 99.987678998654% chance his kid, then he was ordered to pay 300 in child support. he put himself on welfare. 300 went to 25. we couldnt even afford shoes. if a woman doesnt decide by the 9th month, its usually because she wants the baby. men should be the same way.

It doesn't matter if there is any biological mach at all really. Think about property rights. I know I sound rather heartless and very disconnected but that’s how law works. Now think about this. What would happen if a man decided to change their answer from No to Yes? How about Yes to No?

Under the proposed system a Yes will always be a Yes, however, there is nothing stopping a man from changing his mind about a No

How do you think a new law such as the proposed will effect future decision making on all parties?