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I have an idea for what we did yesterday.


Do several runs and each time having our CL different. Each run last 2-3 hours depending on when we start.

Example:
1st run-10.8
2nd run- 10.9
3rd run- 11
4th run 11.1
etc.

I know it will take a long time to get all of the information, but it's not like any of us have anything else to do. So I figure we all have the time to do it. sweatdrop
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I like this thread and I like the idea behind it as well keep up the errrr good work? Can I say that?


ValKyriePunk20
Shinju_hashimfo
ValKyriePunk20

I got informed that there was some testing for DMS? What exactly is this myth that were solving?


I really love your guys work on the drop rates! 3nodding But I want to tackle one of the mysterious white whales of DMS... The supposed idea that with certain map generations in GM, you can hit HPR in less than two rooms. eek


Just wanted to say that I was in a crew that did this, its never happened again to me but its true eek

Once when I was doing GR's with Rama, Val, and other Gaia family we had a map that took us there is 4 rooms, but it took hours to find it because we missed the room that took us there, so we ended up doing most of the map. xd
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Shinju_hashimfo
I have an idea for what we did yesterday.


Do several runs and each time having our CL different. Each run last 2-3 hours depending on when we start.

Example:
1st run-10.8
2nd run- 10.9
3rd run- 11
4th run 11.1
etc.

I know it will take a long time to get all of the information, but it's not like any of us have anything else to do. So I figure we all have the time to do it. sweatdrop


Oh I like this idea. It would definitely be a way to get more accurate numbers and I'd totally be down to do it if you're in ^_^

The variable would be speed, though. Unless the team was constant and their performance was held equal.

I think the main question is, are we trying to test how many orbs the team can get in 2-3 hours or are we trying to judge the orb-per-kill ratio.

Variables that would affect the trials would include:
-The amount of 'restarts' where the team runs into GR's and has to start over (this adds random amounts of time).
-The number of Big Dogs and NF's the teams run into.
-Players going afk or taking breaks

I am definitely down to do this, and think we can make it work. I just think it's important to decide now what we plan on observing ^_^
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Shinju_hashimfo
I have an idea for what we did yesterday.


Do several runs and each time having our CL different. Each run last 2-3 hours depending on when we start.

Example:
1st run-10.8
2nd run- 10.9
3rd run- 11
4th run 11.1
etc.

I know it will take a long time to get all of the information, but it's not like any of us have anything else to do. So I figure we all have the time to do it. sweatdrop


Oh I like this idea. It would definitely be a way to get more accurate numbers and I'd totally be down to do it if you're in ^_^

The variable would be speed, though. Unless the team was constant and their performance was held equal.

I think the main question is, are we trying to test how many orbs the team can get in 2-3 hours or are we trying to judge the orb-per-kill ratio.

Variables that would affect the trials would include:
-The amount of 'restarts' where the team runs into GR's and has to start over (this adds random amounts of time).
-The number of Big Dogs and NF's the teams run into.
-Players going afk or taking breaks

I am definitely down to do this, and think we can make it work. I just think it's important to decide now what we plan on observing ^_^

Let's try orb-per-kill ratio with the lower CL first. And then go from there and see what happens. I'll leave the planning up to you. I just thought it was a good idea.
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Shinju_hashimfo

Let's try orb-per-kill ratio with the lower CL first. And then go from there and see what happens. I'll leave the planning up to you. I just thought it was a good idea.


Sounds like a plan! ^_^
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Shinju_hashimfo

Let's try orb-per-kill ratio with the lower CL first. And then go from there and see what happens. I'll leave the planning up to you. I just thought it was a good idea.


Lux Fortuna
Sounds like a plan! ^_^


Got any particular timeframe in mind as to when you want to test again?
I'm being wayyy too wordy again. redface
What I meant to say is:

When? biggrin
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Shinju_hashimfo

Let's try orb-per-kill ratio with the lower CL first. And then go from there and see what happens. I'll leave the planning up to you. I just thought it was a good idea.


Lux Fortuna
Sounds like a plan! ^_^


Got any particular timeframe in mind as to when you want to test again?
I'm being wayyy too wordy again. redface
What I meant to say is:

When? biggrin


Perhaps tonight if Shinju has time. I'll be super busy with major papers I need to write, but I can find time to play if others will be on.
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I'll talk to someone and if they want to do it as well then I'll organize it. I'll keep you updated.

Owlie


WideEyed and I want, too. (She has expressed interest in it in the other topic.)


I'm assuming you all have Major Luck Boosts (if not then said players would have to bow out).

If this is the case then the tentative team will be: Lux, Owlie, Mem, Wide

I'll ask Shinju if she's interested. We can find another player rather easily. I'll just see which of my friends is available or something. I guess I wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty again. Time to wipe the rust off my rings xD

I'll see if you guys are free tomorrow.


I do have the major luck boost, let me know what time you're thinking of doing this. After 10 central is when i usually have the most uninterrupted computer time.

I'm like... 4 or 5 pixel bars away from major accuracy. It's taking forever.
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I'll talk to someone and if they want to do it as well then I'll organize it. I'll keep you updated.

Owlie


WideEyed and I want, too. (She has expressed interest in it in the other topic.)


I'm assuming you all have Major Luck Boosts (if not then said players would have to bow out).

If this is the case then the tentative team will be: Lux, Owlie, Mem, Wide

I'll ask Shinju if she's interested. We can find another player rather easily. I'll just see which of my friends is available or something. I guess I wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty again. Time to wipe the rust off my rings xD

I'll see if you guys are free tomorrow.


I do have the major luck boost, let me know what time you're thinking of doing this. After 10 central is when i usually have the most uninterrupted computer time.

I'm like... 4 or 5 pixel bars away from major accuracy. It's taking forever.


Sounds good ^_^ Sounds about the time we'd play if we do it tonight.

I know what you mean about accuracy -__- my tcl is like 100k and I still don't have it. Talk about grinding =
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I'll talk to someone and if they want to do it as well then I'll organize it. I'll keep you updated.

Owlie


WideEyed and I want, too. (She has expressed interest in it in the other topic.)


I'm assuming you all have Major Luck Boosts (if not then said players would have to bow out).

If this is the case then the tentative team will be: Lux, Owlie, Mem, Wide

I'll ask Shinju if she's interested. We can find another player rather easily. I'll just see which of my friends is available or something. I guess I wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty again. Time to wipe the rust off my rings xD

I'll see if you guys are free tomorrow.


I do have the major luck boost, let me know what time you're thinking of doing this. After 10 central is when i usually have the most uninterrupted computer time.

I'm like... 4 or 5 pixel bars away from major accuracy. It's taking forever.


Sounds good ^_^ Sounds about the time we'd play if we do it tonight.

I know what you mean about accuracy -__- my tcl is like 100k and I still don't have it. Talk about grinding =


Awesome. I'm kinda pissed I missed the first round of testing emo

So since you can gain Ghi exp from just talking and walking around (from what I understand), I've been wondering at what average TC people usually get major accuracy. I just checked, I'm at 80011.
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WideEyed and I want, too. (She has expressed interest in it in the other topic.)


I'm assuming you all have Major Luck Boosts (if not then said players would have to bow out).

If this is the case then the tentative team will be: Lux, Owlie, Mem, Wide

I'll ask Shinju if she's interested. We can find another player rather easily. I'll just see which of my friends is available or something. I guess I wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty again. Time to wipe the rust off my rings xD

I'll see if you guys are free tomorrow.


I do have the major luck boost, let me know what time you're thinking of doing this. After 10 central is when i usually have the most uninterrupted computer time.

I'm like... 4 or 5 pixel bars away from major accuracy. It's taking forever.


Sounds good ^_^ Sounds about the time we'd play if we do it tonight.

I know what you mean about accuracy -__- my tcl is like 100k and I still don't have it. Talk about grinding =


Awesome. I'm kinda pissed I missed the first round of testing emo

So since you can gain Ghi exp from just talking and walking around (from what I understand), I've been wondering at what average TC people usually get major accuracy. I just checked, I'm at 80011.


I remember back in the day Little Miss Fortune got hers at like 20k tcl because that's all she did was chill on GB near a palm-tree talking to tons of people.

I've never really just sat in game talking so I imagine the average is around 90-100k.
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Shinju_hashimfo


IM IN
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Lux Fortuna
Earlier today a group of us went into DMS to test vary cl drop ratios. Here is what we found after about an hour of doing yellow rooms.

(Crew members: Lux Fortuna, Shinju_hashimfo, Brooklyn Rage Mage, Memory Haunts You, parf, azphyxxxiate)

CL 10.8 received 61 Shadow Orbs

CL 10.9 received 55 Shadow Orbs

CL 11.0 received 54 Shadow Orbs

CL 11.1 received 56 Shadow Orbs

CL 11.2 received 52 Shadow Orbs

CL 11.4 received 49 Shadow Orbs

Notes on the study:


*Anomalies: After the fact I realized that our 10.8 player did not have a major luck boost. This does not contradict the data, though, because she in fact received the -most- drops. The only way this would negatively affect the data would be if there is an inherent glitch in the luck system and there is no reason to believe that this is the case.

*Weaknesses of the Study:
-Very small sample size
-Short period of time
-Possibility that varying cl's within a group affect orb drop-rates (however unlikely the possibility for this is).

Conclusions:
While I realize that this is a small sample size over a short duration of time the data can still be open to offer guiding advice.

-While the cl 10.8 received significantly more orbs than anyone else in the crew, it was expected that the 10.9 would exhibit similar results, however she suffered from 10% less drops than the cl 10.8 and her orb drops were practically identical to the 11.0, 11.1, and 11.2. I mostly attribute this to the small sample size and short duration, though.

-There seemed to be no significant difference between cl's 10.9-11.2.

-The cl 11.4 received the least amount of drops but this could have been a result of the short period of time. More research would be necessary in order to reach a stronger conclusion.

The numbers suggest that the optimal range for reaping maximum drops per kill is cl 10.8 from this (small) study. However, it is my contention that a team of 11.4's would move much more quickly than a team of 10.8's and would also undergo much less pressure. Coupled with the ease and respectable orb drops it seems to be in the best interest of the team to play at cl 11.4 for the fastest run while still receiving a good orb-drop ratio.

Follow-up Study:
-Compare the orb drop difference between cl 11.4's and 11.5's


Those results are kind of what I would have expected tbh.
I've always found my drop rate to be significantly better when I ran with Crews who were well above me.
Some of my best drop rates were in the early days of SS when I was a full cl point below my Crewmates.

So overall, the only question that remains for me, would be 11.4 being the best level.
I fully appreciate the incresed time and difficulty that accompanies fighting Animated above your cl, but seeing as your cl11.1 test subject received a significantly better drop rate than the 11.4, do you think the additional time and difficulty of going in at 11.1 would be offset by the increaased drop rate?
Red Kutai's avatar

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Lux Fortuna
*Anomalies: After the fact I realized that our 10.8 player did not have a major luck boost. This does not contradict the data, though, because she in fact received the -most- drops. The only way this would negatively affect the data would be if there is an inherent glitch in the luck system and there is no reason to believe that this is the case.

If we know the Luck of the players involved, it wouldn't be impossible for us to adjust the 10.8 value by the percentile difference. As you point out, though, it being the top data point makes this a little unnecessary.
Quote:
*Weaknesses of the Study:
-Very small sample size
-Short period of time
-Possibility that varying cl's within a group affect orb drop-rates (however unlikely the possibility for this is).

Sample sizes will always be a concern with these types of tests; the more information available, the better. Still, assuming around a 60% rate of orb drops, naturally, this test would only be about a hundred data points for each CL value. Unfortunately, I know DMS expects quite a large time investment for even that, so one can't really complain.

The one big concern in that respect, though, is that all of these results are roughly within the same value range - in limited-sample experiments, we tend to rely on very large distinctions from which to draw conclusions. In this set, the total range is only 12 - altogether, that's about 20% of our maximum value, which could reasonably be explained through the randomness of the system. Elsewhere in the game, overleveled players receive only half their normal drops, and those are the kinds of differentials I would be hoping to see in a small-scale experiment.
Quote:
Conclusions:
While I realize that this is a small sample size over a short duration of time the data can still be open to offer guiding advice.

-While the cl 10.8 received significantly more orbs than anyone else in the crew, it was expected that the 10.9 would exhibit similar results, however she suffered from 10% less drops than the cl 10.8 and her orb drops were practically identical to the 11.0, 11.1, and 11.2. I mostly attribute this to the small sample size and short duration, though.

-There seemed to be no significant difference between cl's 10.9-11.2.

-The cl 11.4 received the least amount of drops but this could have been a result of the short period of time. More research would be necessary in order to reach a stronger conclusion.

From the data at-hand, there appears to be a downward correlation between CL and orb drops; however, given the small differences in the middle of the data range, those values could just as easily have supported an upward or neutral correlation, had the two endpoint values change significantly - and given the random nature of the study, such changes can't be entirely ruled-out. As you point out, it would take more research to strongly determine where those endpoints should lie.

I may simply not be recalling it, but did you have a hypothesis for how you expected drops to function, before performing the experiment? I've heard before that 10.8 was considered the 'sweet spot', and that drops above it were reduced, but I've never heard by how much or whether the distinction was boolean (affects players above 10.8 equally) or scalar (affecting CL 11.4 players more severely, as the data tentatively suggests). Would you mind illucidating on how you suspect the system works, so we have a better idea of how the data is supporting or defying expectations?
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Lux Fortuna
*Anomalies: After the fact I realized that our 10.8 player did not have a major luck boost. This does not contradict the data, though, because she in fact received the -most- drops. The only way this would negatively affect the data would be if there is an inherent glitch in the luck system and there is no reason to believe that this is the case.

If we know the Luck of the players involved, it wouldn't be impossible for us to adjust the 10.8 value by the percentile difference. As you point out, though, it being the top data point makes this a little unnecessary.
Quote:
*Weaknesses of the Study:
-Very small sample size
-Short period of time
-Possibility that varying cl's within a group affect orb drop-rates (however unlikely the possibility for this is).

Sample sizes will always be a concern with these types of tests; the more information available, the better. Still, assuming around a 60% rate of orb drops, naturally, this test would only be about a hundred data points for each CL value. Unfortunately, I know DMS expects quite a large time investment for even that, so one can't really complain.

The one big concern in that respect, though, is that all of these results are roughly within the same value range - in limited-sample experiments, we tend to rely on very large distinctions from which to draw conclusions. In this set, the total range is only 12 - altogether, that's about 20% of our maximum value, which could reasonably be explained through the randomness of the system. Elsewhere in the game, overleveled players receive only half their normal drops, and those are the kinds of differentials I would be hoping to see in a small-scale experiment.
Quote:
Conclusions:
While I realize that this is a small sample size over a short duration of time the data can still be open to offer guiding advice.

-While the cl 10.8 received significantly more orbs than anyone else in the crew, it was expected that the 10.9 would exhibit similar results, however she suffered from 10% less drops than the cl 10.8 and her orb drops were practically identical to the 11.0, 11.1, and 11.2. I mostly attribute this to the small sample size and short duration, though.

-There seemed to be no significant difference between cl's 10.9-11.2.

-The cl 11.4 received the least amount of drops but this could have been a result of the short period of time. More research would be necessary in order to reach a stronger conclusion.

From the data at-hand, there appears to be a downward correlation between CL and orb drops; however, given the small differences in the middle of the data range, those values could just as easily have supported an upward or neutral correlation, had the two endpoint values change significantly - and given the random nature of the study, such changes can't be entirely ruled-out. As you point out, it would take more research to strongly determine where those endpoints should lie.

I may simply not be recalling it, but did you have a hypothesis for how you expected drops to function, before performing the experiment? I've heard before that 10.8 was considered the 'sweet spot', and that drops above it were reduced, but I've never heard by how much or whether the distinction was boolean (affects players above 10.8 equally) or scalar (affecting CL 11.4 players more severely, as the data tentatively suggests). Would you mind illucidating on how you suspect the system works, so we have a better idea of how the data is supporting or defying expectations?


My theory was that at 11.0 and below the drops would be the same. We've heard it time and time again about how most 10.0's practically get a drop at every kill so I thought it would be unnecessary for them to scale it so long as you were at--or below-- the enemy cl.

There still needs to be more testing done, but it's entirely possible that the lower you are from the enemy cl, the better your drops (down to 10.0, of course).



Also, with regard to the luck anomaly parf--the 10.8-- had 16 luck while the rest of us had 18. Eh I forget if I checked before or after buffs or whatever, but I know she had 2 less luck naturally than the rest of us.

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