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Red Kutai


"Dig A Pony" Ring .... Cowboy Set




emotion_kirakira I look forward to the completion of that set. emotion_kirakira



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EDIT: I don't mind the PvP threads, personally; I simply wish they'd be more specific. Even if the developers had the resources to achieve PvP, they've yet to figure out precisely how they'd want to do so. I think there's still plenty of room for discussion on the topic, but I agree that those threads rarely take advantage of that opportunity... sweatdrop



And yes, being SPECIFIC as to what the OP wants is always the key missing component. emotion_drool It's like saying... we should have less lag /thread. scream scream scream scream
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ValKyrie Ragepunk
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"Dig A Pony" Ring .... Cowboy Set




emotion_kirakira I look forward to the completion of that set. emotion_kirakira

Well, the first three elements - Revolver, These Boots, and Lasso - were created more-or-less independently of each other, but they seemed to fit together nicely enough that I hoped to fill in the gaps. I've considered rings along the lines of "High Noon" and "Tumbleweed", but I wasn't able to come up with really stellar mechanics for them - I was hoping "Dig a Pony" might be more obvious, and the name is almost too good to pass up.

That said, I'm still open to suggestions on how one might mechanically represent a pony, because I've yet to come up with anything great. The set already has two damage-dealing rings (Revolver and These Boots) and one Crowd Control (Lasso), meaning the last slot should really be a buff of some kind - but there's not a lot of design space left in simple Footspeed buffs, so I'd like to avoid something like that. I'm confident there's something left usable in there, it's just a matter of mining it out... sweatdrop
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ValKyrie Ragepunk
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"Dig A Pony" Ring .... Cowboy Set




emotion_kirakira I look forward to the completion of that set. emotion_kirakira

Well, the first three elements - Revolver, These Boots, and Lasso - were created more-or-less independently of each other, but they seemed to fit together nicely enough that I hoped to fill in the gaps. I've considered rings along the lines of "High Noon" and "Tumbleweed", but I wasn't able to come up with really stellar mechanics for them - I was hoping "Dig a Pony" might be more obvious, and the name is almost too good to pass up.

That said, I'm still open to suggestions on how one might mechanically represent a pony, because I've yet to come up with anything great. The set already has two damage-dealing rings (Revolver and These Boots) and one Crowd Control (Lasso), meaning the last slot should really be a buff of some kind - but there's not a lot of design space left in simple Footspeed buffs, so I'd like to avoid something like that. I'm confident there's something left usable in there, it's just a matter of mining it out... sweatdrop


I like the idea of a better CC ring. Especially since Lasso sounds like it would be good for mobbing. 8D It would be so lovely to have a CC that can place them in a tight circle, for speed runs.
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ValKyrie Ragepunk
I like the idea of a better CC ring. Especially since Lasso sounds like it would be good for mobbing. 8D It would be so lovely to have a CC that can place them in a tight circle, for speed runs.

The premise for it is essentially a reverse Knockback ring - knocks enemies toward you - that causes a short-term Sleep effect. I think it would make sense to AoE with Rage, which would effectively bring groups of enemies in tightly together, and temporarily incapacitate them.

Of course, all credit for the concept goes to Atrash the Squidmonger, as I believe every element of the design was originally his. I simply loved the idea so much that I co-opted it for use alongside the other designs, since it so perfectly fit the theme... 3nodding
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Starting something new today, that was hinted at yesterday; we'll see how it goes. sweatdrop

Quote:
If zOMG! had a 'Horse Ring', how should it work?


Trying to keep the questions simple, to start; as I mentioned yesterday, the working title for the ring in question is 'Dig a Pony', and I think it makes most sense as a buff - but rather than applying restrictions, I simply want to hear what people think makes the most sense, and what would be the most fun... 3nodding
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Red Kutai

Starting something new today, that was hinted at yesterday; we'll see how it goes. sweatdrop

Quote:
If zOMG! had a 'Horse Ring', how should it work?


Trying to keep the questions simple, to start; as I mentioned yesterday, the working title for the ring in question is 'Dig a Pony', and I think it makes most sense as a buff - but rather than applying restrictions, I simply want to hear what people think makes the most sense, and what would be the most fun... 3nodding
What about a knockback buff? Something that applies a small KB effect to your regular attacks? Mounted fighters are often at an advantage in combat, able to use the added mass of their horse to charge down a foe. In zOMG, this could be used to stun an Animated for a moment. Higher Ranks could stun heavier foes. The knockback wouldn't even have to be that much, just enough to force the monster to reposition its attack stance before it can strike again.
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Starting something new today, that was hinted at yesterday; we'll see how it goes. sweatdrop

Quote:
If zOMG! had a 'Horse Ring', how should it work?


Trying to keep the questions simple, to start; as I mentioned yesterday, the working title for the ring in question is 'Dig a Pony', and I think it makes most sense as a buff - but rather than applying restrictions, I simply want to hear what people think makes the most sense, and what would be the most fun... 3nodding


Since Dig A Pony is a buff i think it would be complimented by a better version of guns guns guns (something quick draw-esque). The cool down times on this "cowboy" set could be faster, lending itself to quicker attacking, CCing etc. 4laugh
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ValKyrie Ragepunk
Since Dig A Pony is a buff i think it would be complimented by a better version of guns guns guns (something quick draw-esque). The cool down times on this "cowboy" set could be faster, lending itself to quicker attacking, CCing etc. 4laugh

The 'Revolver' ring from the same set is similar to what you describe - the ring has a mere 1-second Cooldown, but has a long(er) 'reload' time after 6 shots. This would have a bit of a 'quickdraw' feel, while the reload restriction limits its speed enough that the damage hopefully wouldn't need to feel completely anemic. It was designed as a ring whose 'spike damage' exceeded its damage-per-second, making it more useful in short encounters than in longer ones.
Thard_Verad
What about a Knockback buff?

Interestingly, this is almost the exact inverse of one of the mechanics I was playing with - for a while I've considered representing 'altitude' (as for a flying buff) with Range penalties on incoming attacks, meaning enemies have to be closer to you because you're farther 'up' (the effect would be percentile, so it would never make 'melee' attacks impossible). Both effects achieve the same thing - making enemies move in to hit you - but through different methods.

The issue I have with buffs that grant attack effects is that they tend to discourage 'building around' an effect - I'm worried that having 'the Knockback Buff' would harm Bump's position as 'the Knockback Ring'. It's possible that it would work out well enough, but I'm concerned that it wouldn't actually support the use of Knockback, as intended...
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Interestingly, this is almost the exact inverse of one of the mechanics I was playing with - for a while I've considered representing 'altitude' (as for a flying buff) with Range penalties on incoming attacks, meaning enemies have to be closer to you because you're farther 'up' (the effect would be percentile, so it would never make 'melee' attacks impossible). Both effects achieve the same thing - making enemies move in to hit you - but through different methods.

The issue I have with buffs that grant attack effects is that they tend to discourage 'building around' an effect - I'm worried that having 'the Knockback Buff' would harm Bump's position as 'the Knockback Ring'. It's possible that it would work out well enough, but I'm concerned that it wouldn't actually support the use of Knockback, as intended...
I did have Bump (and raged Hack) in mind, which is why I wanted the effect to be relatively small. Bump sends enemies carreening across the screen, this effect just makes 'em flinch.

Maybe give this a short duration but longer cooldown? (e.g. 2 minute effect, 5 minute reload)

Now that I think about it, having a tiny bit of 'flinching' knockback would make DoT effects pretty brutal. It could improve a Kiter's chances of escape. Throw a Pony-powered Hornet Nest or Fire Rain, then run for it as the monsters get knocked about.
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So buff-wise, what do you have in so far as something to fit stamina regen for the quick bursts of the attack rings? *unless the cost to use is also minimal*
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So buff-wise, what do you have in so far as something to fit stamina regen for the quick bursts of the attack rings? *unless the cost to use is also minimal*

Well, it's worth noting that Ring Sets aren't really designed as a 'combo' - if they work together, that's more a happy coincidence than a feature. They're designed simply to fit their theme, but since the game gives the player 4 more slots to customise their build, they should be able to shore-up any inconsistencies that might show up in them. Players would be able to carry Divinity alongside a Cowboy Set if they felt it ate through Stamina too fast, so I don't think that the Set really needs to self-correct. I'd like to see the game at the point where players can legitimately choose between bringing two sets - and accepting the weaknesses each presents - bringing one set - and using their extra slots to shore up the weaknesses of it - or simply taking advantage of ring synergy without sets. I'm afraid if we make sets too internally synergistic or minimise their weaknesses, it pushes players too strongly toward always using two sets. It's something of a difficult balance, so I can't really be certain.

If I did want to include something in a Cowboy Set to affect Health or Stamina, I'd probably concept it as Saddlebags - which may actually be easier to design around than the horse itself. My first idea is a buff/heal/what-not whose Cooldown is dependent on your movement; moving around constantly causes the ring to cool down faster, allowing you more use from it. Ideally, you would be able to 'combo' the effect with Footspeed buffs, allowing you to build around it in an interesting way.
Thard_Verad

I'm not sure, really. Part of my reluctance may be the fact that the 'Horse Ring' would not actually encourage you to move at all, which seems rather unnatural for the concept. I think we could both agree that a Footspeed buff would be our first thought, but the field is so crowded that I don't really consider that a viable option. However, I feel like it ought to be something movement-related, or it's not really evoking the concept of a mount... redface
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Red Kutai

I'm not sure, really. Part of my reluctance may be the fact that the 'Horse Ring' would not actually encourage you to move at all, which seems rather unnatural for the concept. I think we could both agree that a Footspeed buff would be our first thought, but the field is so crowded that I don't really consider that a viable option. However, I feel like it ought to be something movement-related, or it's not really evoking the concept of a mount... redface
Hm, that's a good point... What about a buff that lets you continue moving from A to B without stopping when you attack? That way kiters won't expose themselves to mob damage if they toss their water balloon. Might be tricky to code it, but we're after concepts here, right?
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Thard_Verad
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I'm not sure, really. Part of my reluctance may be the fact that the 'Horse Ring' would not actually encourage you to move at all, which seems rather unnatural for the concept. I think we could both agree that a Footspeed buff would be our first thought, but the field is so crowded that I don't really consider that a viable option. However, I feel like it ought to be something movement-related, or it's not really evoking the concept of a mount... redface
Hm, that's a good point... What about a buff that lets you continue moving from A to B without stopping when you attack? That way kiters won't expose themselves to mob damage if they toss their water balloon. Might be tricky to code it, but we're after concepts here, right?

I considered something almost like that, but it came across more as a debuff than a buff - an effect that caused the player to move constantly, and uncontrollably. The issue, I think, is less the difficulty of programming it - Fear works similarly, after all - but more the difficulty of designing it in such a way that people would actually want and be able to use it. Additionally, it's worth noting that attacking-while-moving is only a problem if you're using a keyboard; if you click-to-move, you can attack freely while continuing toward your destination, making it seem less like a ring and more like a natural game option.

I think there's probably somewhere to go with the not-entirely-voluntary motion option, but it looks like something of a tough field to design for - certainly worth looking into further, but I'm not-at-all sure we'll find what we're hoping to...
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Red Kutai

I considered something almost like that, but it came across more as a debuff than a buff - an effect that caused the player to move constantly, and uncontrollably. The issue, I think, is less the difficulty of programming it - Fear works similarly, after all - but more the difficulty of designing it in such a way that people would actually want and be able to use it. Additionally, it's worth noting that attacking-while-moving is only a problem if you're using a keyboard; if you click-to-move, you can attack freely while continuing toward your destination, making it seem less like a ring and more like a natural game option.

I think there's probably somewhere to go with the not-entirely-voluntary motion option, but it looks like something of a tough field to design for - certainly worth looking into further, but I'm not-at-all sure we'll find what we're hoping to...
On click-to-move, that's almost what happens. Your character still stops to attack, and enemies chasing you can get in their own strike in that moment. Even if you click immediately to move again, you're still exposed for a second.

Going overboard idea: Auto-move, dodge buff (more with higher rage rank), accuracy debuff (less with higher rank), Set bonus gives the Cowboy attacks a range boost.
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Thard_Verad
Red Kutai

I considered something almost like that, but it came across more as a debuff than a buff - an effect that caused the player to move constantly, and uncontrollably. The issue, I think, is less the difficulty of programming it - Fear works similarly, after all - but more the difficulty of designing it in such a way that people would actually want and be able to use it. Additionally, it's worth noting that attacking-while-moving is only a problem if you're using a keyboard; if you click-to-move, you can attack freely while continuing toward your destination, making it seem less like a ring and more like a natural game option.

I think there's probably somewhere to go with the not-entirely-voluntary motion option, but it looks like something of a tough field to design for - certainly worth looking into further, but I'm not-at-all sure we'll find what we're hoping to...
On click-to-move, that's almost what happens. Your character still stops to attack, and enemies chasing you can get in their own strike in that moment. Even if you click immediately to move again, you're still exposed for a second.

Going overboard idea: Auto-move, dodge buff (more with higher rage rank), accuracy debuff (less with higher rank), Set bonus gives the Cowboy attacks a range boost.

I seemed to remember it being smoother, but I suppose you're right - still makes it a little difficult to sell auto-move as an investment-worthy feature, particularly one worth building a ring around. Because really, apart from that it would just be Ghost with an Accuracy Debuff (which is hard enough to justify on a ring designed to enable attacking), and that tiny moment of extra movement hardly seems to justify creating a whole ring.

I like the idea of automating movement somehow, I'd just like something that seems to actually do something on its own - not that enabling kiting isn't a worthwhile endeavour, but the effect just doesn't feel like it's worth a ring slot, at present. I'd like it to do something more visible, even if that something is relatively difficult to take advantage of...

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