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Mage The Red's avatar

Tricky Demon

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WideEyed
I wonder if there might have been a discussion before launching DMS as to the benefits of making it "easier" to finish, thereby keeping people satisfied and engaged, vs making it ridiculously hard to complete and distracting the majority from the fact that there wasn't anything new being added to the game.
Honestly, this point right here would make the most sense, since it's obvious that we won't be seeing any new content for quite a while. From what little information that we do know, zOMG wasn't getting all of the attention it needs. So DMS was a way to appease the players, but keep them held over until something can be done, and content can be worked on.

Or at least, that's what I would do.
WideEyed's avatar

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GoDoFuNdO



with a proper crew and aggro method GR and kam 1+2 can be done in under 3 hours!! wink


omnileech


Hmmm....
OK then, perhaps I should have said it would take an minimum of six to seven hours for an average Crew.

I'm pretty sure you guys are more the exception to the rule, than would be the average Crew.

Most times I go into DMS, it's at 11.4 for YM, then if we move on to GR, the Crew (and I don't have a regular GR Crew, so it's always random) will regroup in the Null, change a few Rings, and power up as far as they can.
From then on, it's anybody's guess how we do, but to be honest, it's not usually all that good.

I've been in Crews where Green Rooms were completely doable, and we made good time, and I've been in Crews that sailed through Yellow, but failed to survive even the first GR after multiple attempts.

There's always going to be the elite players, who will make anything look easy, but the bulk of any group of people are not going to fit into that category, and will find the task at hand to be an awful lot harder than those at the upper end of the curve.
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

WideEyed
I honestly think the whole "difficulty and duration" issue may be far more complex than many of us consider it to be.
Even before DMS was released, zOMG! had been suffering from an appaling lack of dedicated resources from a Dev time standpoint.
I find myself wondering if the ridiculously high numbers of Shorbs and Ingredients required to basically "finish" DMS, might not have been a kind of "after-thought"...a modification of the original setup that may have been made once the people working on it realised that there would be nothing new coming for zOMG! for an excruciatingly long time, if ever.

Had the Shorb requirements followed the established pattern of incrementing by one with each new level, and the Ingredients required for the Epic Recipes been "reasonable", an awful lot of people would have finished DMS by now, and would once more be howling for new content.

I wonder if there might have been a discussion before launching DMS as to the benefits of making it "easier" to finish, thereby keeping people satisfied and engaged, vs making it ridiculously hard to complete and distracting the majority from the fact that there wasn't anything new being added to the game.

I think you're quite right that they considered the importance of stretching their content, so much so that I don't think it was even an afterthought - I believe one of the main goals in creating DMS was creating an area that would 'last'. My issue with DMS has never been that I don't feel they completed their goals, but that I don't think their goals were altogether worthwhile, to begin with. sweatdrop

The issue I have is not that they stretched content, either; I accept that as a necessary evil - though it should be avoided where unnecessary - especially in the game's presently resource-strapped position. My issue, rather; is what they stretched. DMS is, at its heart, precisely the same as every other zOMG! area, except harder (stretching) and more time-consuming (more stretching). If they had chosen quality over quantity, and stretched out something that was genuinely interesting, I'd be fine with it. As-is, they simply took precisely what zOMG! already offers, slapped a higher 'price tag' on it, and assumed that made it somehow more valuable. I'm fine with stretching where it needs to occur, but you should be sure you have something worth stretching before you do it...
Memory Haunts You's avatar

Rainbow Hunter

I can see how, like WideEyed and Mage stated, it would be necessary for DMS to "keep us busy for a long time" for lack of nearby-future updates to the game.

But does it succeed to fulfill this purpose?

Not for all players. Yes, there is a group of players who "keep busy" trying to "beat" DMS and leveling up all of their rings, and crafting the epics.
But there are also two other groups of people:

- the people for whom it was almost too easy. People who had the necessary skill, dedication AND time to give the new instance their "all" the moment it was released, but who are now already through with it and bored with it.

- the people for whom it is just too tedious. They have stopped playing because the demand of time, effort and concentration was above what they wanted to put in. They progressed too slowly and became demotivated; or they felt like it was "something they could never do".


So, I think the matter is a bit more complicated than just stating "DMS is too hard". I think the problem is that DMS does not have the necessary differentiation to appeal to differently-wired people.
WideEyed's avatar

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Red Kutai
WideEyed
I honestly think the whole "difficulty and duration" issue may be far more complex than many of us consider it to be.
Even before DMS was released, zOMG! had been suffering from an appaling lack of dedicated resources from a Dev time standpoint.
I find myself wondering if the ridiculously high numbers of Shorbs and Ingredients required to basically "finish" DMS, might not have been a kind of "after-thought"...a modification of the original setup that may have been made once the people working on it realised that there would be nothing new coming for zOMG! for an excruciatingly long time, if ever.

Had the Shorb requirements followed the established pattern of incrementing by one with each new level, and the Ingredients required for the Epic Recipes been "reasonable", an awful lot of people would have finished DMS by now, and would once more be howling for new content.

I wonder if there might have been a discussion before launching DMS as to the benefits of making it "easier" to finish, thereby keeping people satisfied and engaged, vs making it ridiculously hard to complete and distracting the majority from the fact that there wasn't anything new being added to the game.

I think you're quite right that they considered the importance of stretching their content, so much so that I don't think it was even an afterthought - I believe one of the main goals in creating DMS was creating an area that would 'last'. My issue with DMS has never been that I don't feel they completed their goals, but that I don't think their goals were altogether worthwhile, to begin with. sweatdrop

The issue I have is not that they stretched content, either; I accept that as a necessary evil - though it should be avoided where unnecessary - especially in the game's presently resource-strapped position. My issue, rather; is what they stretched. DMS is, at its heart, precisely the same as every other zOMG! area, except harder (stretching) and more time-consuming (more stretching). If they had chosen quality over quantity, and stretched out something that was genuinely interesting, I'd be fine with it. As-is, they simply took precisely what zOMG! already offers, slapped a higher 'price tag' on it, and assumed that made it somehow more valuable. I'm fine with stretching where it needs to occur, but you should be sure you have something worth stretching before you do it...


It would be foolish of me to argue any of your points, although I do kind of like DMS.
While it may or may not be "canon", depending upon one's perception, it does fit with the rest of the game IMO, and it's an enjoyable, if tangental, addition.
The difficulty is, again IMO, manageable, and welcome after countless runs through the rest of zOMG!.
The fact that virtually every existing area of the game had been "neutered" to the point of being little more than Farming Speed-Runs for Gold, seemed to me to cry out for something that made zOMG! challenging again, and for the vast majority of us, DMS is exactly that.
I still find DMS to be engaging and enjoyable, provided I'm lucky enough to find a solid Crew, but as I've said before, the amount of time it takes for an average Crew to do a complete run through, makes it extremely difficult, not only to find a Crew that is competent and will stay the entire time, but for myself as well.
I generally don't have hours and hours to spend working my way through.
I know it's been said before, but it would have been nice if there could have been a second Portal added that allowed you to go straight to Kamila.
I've played an awful lot of DMS since it opened, but I've only faced Kamila's first form once, and Blood Lust twice, and short of getting an Invite to a Crew that's there already, and the timing being sufficiently fortuitous that I can play for three or four hours straight, I can't see it happening again any time soon.
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

WideEyed
It would be foolish of me to argue any of your points, although I do kind of like DMS.
While it may or may not be "canon", depending upon one's perception, it does fit with the rest of the game IMO, and it's an enjoyable, if tangental, addition.
The difficulty is, again IMO, manageable, and welcome after countless runs through the rest of zOMG!.
The fact that virtually every existing area of the game had been "neutered" to the point of being little more than Farming Speed-Runs for Gold, seemed to me to cry out for something that made zOMG! challenging again, and for the vast majority of us, DMS is exactly that.
I still find DMS to be engaging and enjoyable, provided I'm lucky enough to find a solid Crew, but as I've said before, the amount of time it takes for an average Crew to do a complete run through, makes it extremely difficult, not only to find a Crew that is competent and will stay the entire time, but for myself as well.
I generally don't have hours and hours to spend working my way through.
I know it's been said before, but it would have been nice if there could have been a second Portal added that allowed you to go straight to Kamila.
I've played an awful lot of DMS since it opened, but I've only faced Kamila's first form once, and Blood Lust twice, and short of getting an Invite to a Crew that's there already, and the timing being sufficiently fortuitous that I can play for three or four hours straight, I can't see it happening again any time soon.

I'm glad you like DMS. Make no mistake, I'm not-at-all upset that it's giving people an opportunity to enjoy the game a little more. 3nodding

I should admit that some of my bias against DMS may be unwarranted; while the gameplay used for DMS obviously existed prior to it (it would work anywhere in the game; it's just not necessary or efficient), DMS is the first area - perhaps excluding the Coliseum - that intentionally appeals to it. While the tactics have always existed 'on paper' - which is the only way I play zOMG!, apparently - they are 'new' in a more practical sense. It's always been possible for players to take on enemies much stronger than themselves, but this is one of the first time it's been intentionally facilitated. I'm not exactly one for practicality or novelty to begin with, but I should at least give credit where credit is due... sweatdrop
II_Kisame_II's avatar

Genius

It's not too hard or too pro, it's tedious and boring as ********.
Myrielle's avatar

Perfect Saint

It's an evil gold/cash sink. emotion_donotwant
/wired to be cheap
Ryo Kazuka's avatar

Loyal Friend

Ehh not even bother
lydrea's avatar

Magical Bookworm

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Myrielle
It's an evil gold/cash sink. emotion_donotwant
/wired to be cheap


I agree with you...
People need to pay 749 GC / 500K+ to enter that place?
S**T
Ryouhana Suiren's avatar

Interesting Browser

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Ryo_Kazuka
Deadmans Shadows is too hard?

That's what she said xd
SimplyABreeze's avatar

Sparkly Nerd

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tedious and time consuming..If you're a 10 it WILL be hard.I was in a crew of mostly 10.(somethings) and it was difficult to get past the very 1st room under the entrance..
illumimi's avatar

Fuzzy Fatcat

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At first is seems hard because monsters target you. However once you get to higher lvls its no biggy, it does take a very long time though.

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