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ive watched fishing scores off and on since the hour it came out...

from casual observation, intensive play, and a lot of discussion, I have concluded that Gaia battle will experience identical shifts from playable to pointless.

reading journals about people who complained about their moms and spending "only" 16 hours that day getting thousands of fish, all for a pixel trophy...

with battle, it will be much worse.

there aren't four or five people dedicated to this. There were 40 or more people like this back in 2005, and in 2007-2008, I can only imagine the numbers have grown.

What's the point of having a system where the first 200 "hot spots" of power and prestige are occupied by people who have no lives? its just like the exchange whore problem of wealth.

There are hundreds of exchange whores who post nothing but profits and emoticons, just like pollwhores, click bump smily face...

it would be a miracle to see Gaia developers make a game where becoming elite doesn't require becoming a mechanized automaton or depleting intelligence to that of a moronic toddler.
Anthon Noire
ive watched fishing scores off and on since the hour it came out...

from casual observation, intensive play, and a lot of discussion, I have concluded that Gaia battle will experience identical shifts from playable to pointless.

reading journals about people who complained about their moms and spending "only" 16 hours that day getting thousands of fish, all for a pixel trophy...

with battle, it will be much worse.

there aren't four or five people dedicated to this. There were 40 or more people like this back in 2005, and in 2007-2008, I can only imagine the numbers have grown.

What's the point of having a system where the first 200 "hot spots" of power and prestige are occupied by people who have no lives? its just like the exchange whore problem of wealth.

There are hundreds of exchange whores who post nothing but profits and emoticons, just like pollwhores, click bump smily face...

it would be a miracle to see Gaia developers make a game where becoming elite doesn't require becoming a mechanized automaton or depleting intelligence to that of a moronic toddler.
There will always be those who play more than others. Not everyone holds the same interest in every activity and some naturally deviate to either extreme. I have no interest in fishing and frankly don't care who has the top spot. Being the best only holds prestige if there's either an interest in usurping the position or an admiration and envy of the accomplishment. Like any other good or service, its worth is based purely on what someone else is willing to do to attain it.
To separate noobs and others you would need zones that only let you in if you are at a certain rank, like in priston tale.
Zodiac 64
To separate noobs and others you would need zones that only let you in if you are at a certain rank, like in priston tale.


or intellectual barriers can be applied to certain zones or abilities.

One of the things that oldschool rolepalyers might remember is the restriction of Paladin. In first edition, the Paladin was one of the most powerful classes ever created. In 3rd edition, it would have a CR modifier of lke +11. The abilities, in summery, included 90% immunity to entire schools of magic and psionics, 100% immunity to several effects including possession and fear, enormous resistances to most everything else, higher attack ratios than fighters, the ability to function into the negatives, healing powers, summoning powers, and with a few supplements, the ability to raise the dead. By 22nd level you could invoke wishes and negate artifact special effects with a holy avenger, and wield power on any plane of existence. A lance in your hands could easily slay a dragon in 1 hit, and you might be riding anything ranging from a pegasus to a silver dragon.
you had the Charisma of kings and the leadership abilities of a military general, and the authority of both a God and a Noble.

ok, so you had this uber character class, so why didn't everyone play them?

because they had both direct and indirect restrictions in place. The restrictions and codes of ethics, along with being De facto leader of party, and being able to properly negotiate politics, strategy, and clerical magic meant that most Game Masters in their right minds wouldn't let most people near the class.

The alignment restrictions were so high that a wide variety of things would prevent a party from forming. If someone used poison they were defaulted to evil and if the Paladin adventured with evil they lost their powers. So they would have to leave the party on the alignment shift of poison use or kill the party member.

this is just one example of one restriction of one class.

Anti Paladins were harder to play than paladins, they weren't as powerful but they were allowed to use poisons and the dark side of their spells to dubious ends. Anti Paladins and 'Paladins had an indestructable force that braught them together and required them to battle.

- point is, you dont get to play these every day, and if you play them wrong, you lose them.

Kensai of the first edition were horridly powerful, in many ways, moreso than paladins, with Damage output/round similar to nuclear weapons, a 13th level Kensai had something like a 90% chance of slaying a God, in round 1. I've seen damage outputs actually surpass that of entire Pantheons, but ive also seen how difficult it is to play them.

The mechanics alone to generate the damage can take a solid hour to clarify, and involve differential calculus. The honor code is so strict you are more likely to see characters commit suicide than get past level 5, and in order to level, you had to hunt down and defeat someone of equal or higher level of the same class (this stopped making sense at the particularly high levels, but is vaguely similar to Afro Samurai).

The psionicist, being saved for last, is a class so tweaky that it became notorious at conventions and in RPGA almost entirely banned. The cheif problems of the class were

1. to the ordinary observer of average intellect, it sucked
2. to the ordinary dungeon master, it was a game breaker
3. to the average player, it was too complex to understand
4. in the hands of an experienced player, it was unmatched in gaming.

Psionicists were, bar none, the most powerful things in gaming history - their power was only held in check by the whim of the GM. We are talking about a class too powerful for free form. Only the game mechanics bind them, and those are mutable.

Of ocurse, out of 27 players, you might get 2 that can function with a psionicist, and 1 that can get any value of playing them. The chief mechanic in operation that makes them too powerful:

psionicsts offensive powers are easily overcome, and infact, weaker than that of a Bard, but they are compared to the wizard (the ones that can turn mice into dragons and counteract god curses with wishes) in overall power.

Well, the wizard's offensive power is exponentially higher than the bard, and psionicists dont wield weapons worth a damn, so where is this "overall power" coming from?

Defense.

The purpose of the DM is very often "kill the players, if they surive, they gain exp". Plotlines are sometimes added, but more often than not, its a hackfest.

Only problem is: Psionicists are ******** invulnerable. No, really! They have a power to counteract every single offensive ability in the game, including ones the GM just happens to "make up" on the spot. "immune to psionics" abilities have no effect whatsoever on psionics that target the psionicist or inanimate objects, and it goes down hill from there...
psionicists, also, unlike everyone else, are allowed to level in the middle of an adventure, and keep leveling, and since DMs give out EXP to survivors only, and Psionicsts cant die, it creates a viscious loop where forced or elective retirement is the only sane thing to do. (the alternative is to kill them early before they get too powerful.. gee, where have i heard that line before..?).


the point might not be obvious, but i listed three classes, with increasing power and specialization, and each required more and more skill to play and advance, while in the hands of the average person, it would fail entirely.

thus i suggest some of the more tweaky abilities to have quest-like requirements or skill sets otherwise unlikely with "noobs".

there are three divisions we normally ue in a person,

mental
spiritual
physical

right? spiritual can be substituted for the philosophical, but the basic notions are tests.

A physical test might be endurance (in order to accomplsih this task you would have to probably stay logged in actively killing for 12+ hours) or manual dexterity/timing (like fishing/cars) and so on.

With a mental test, you can do things that require a lot of risky math (like a stock market system where pattern recognition helps), a simon says "memory" deal, spelling or memorization of lines, and so on.


philosophical/spiritual quests might search for deeper meaning in the quests, and requre a person to make moral decisions in the plot line, like choosing between greater power and the greater good, test loyalty, exact poverty limitations, or require you to understand the fundamental principle of Plato's cave.

higher level specialties would require higher difficulty quests, and patterns (such as performing several quests of a similar nature for a particularly effective ability).
i get the fact that everyone should start out equal on the opening day but after that there should be no resets also be kind to noobs! EVERYONE was a noob once in the game! so pepole who play other games like rs stop making fun of NOOBS thats the main problem with mmos today to many pepole make fun of noobs and ruin it for new players
claytonctc
i get the fact that everyone should start out equal on the opening day but after that there should be no resets also be kind to noobs! EVERYONE was a noob once in the game! so pepole who play other games like rs stop making fun of NOOBS thats the main problem with mmos today to many pepole make fun of noobs and ruin it for new players


for a lot of people who arrived with no system in place, they had to create their own system, some relied on posting, some on roleplaying mechanics, some on wealth acquisition.

For many of these people, the new system is a reset.
Kurenai Gekijou
More winey noobs will always come in, so there's no point in helping today's winey babies.

oh my god what are you? four? it doesn't matter what shopuld and should not be, the fact is that everyone will start out the same.

here, think about this for a second.

what if gaia decided to compensate for the lack of newbies' experience by starting them off with better stats and rings than other users?
so if they weren't helped out in the response that you answered then how would you feel if the situation that i provided came true. you would have no right to complain would you? no, but that wouldn't stop you now would it? everyone deserves equal treatment, even noobs. oh, and anyone who criticizes noob like you just did then you are probably one yourself because it doesn't matter how old your account is, it matters how you act and you are the paradigm for a noob.
YES. I congratulate you on your logic and predictions. I hope this Battle System drowns.
Penn Almasy
YES. I congratulate you on your logic and predictions. I hope this Battle System drowns.


i hope to see you in the battle field o so soon


edit: if you whant to win egenst jet lee or jacky chan couse you have a stick wit spikes il me rolling in your grave rofl fore being a spoild litel prinsses

also i whana know who have ever seen a game that reward some one fore weiting fore the game to be relesed whit auto lvl 100 wile the dude who yost herd of it and bot it to see how it is starts on nolmal lvl1

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claytonctc
i get the fact that everyone should start out equal on the opening day but after that there should be no resets also be kind to noobs! EVERYONE was a noob once in the game! so pepole who play other games like rs stop making fun of NOOBS thats the main problem with mmos today to many pepole make fun of noobs and ruin it for new players


Making fun of noobs(annoying players usally just starting..or even some long lasting players) is ok

Making fun of newbs (New players) is not
Quote:
also i whana know who have ever seen a game that reward some one fore weiting fore the game to be relesed whit auto lvl 100 wile the dude who yost herd of it and bot it to see how it is starts on nolmal lvl1



lets look at some similar examples:

University: Early Decision - you fill out the application early, and the scores you need to get in are reduced, allowing you to get a better education by showing up early.

MMO beta testing - people showing up early test before the actual release also tend to be the first to aquire power before the national release, but run a higher risk of loss or bugs

Standing in line at the bank on a friday - people get access to their money sooner and can pay bills before the shops close down, often allowing them avoid high interest rates or additional late fees

standing in line for the movies - people who come first garantee the best seat, and the opportunity to maximize their enjoyment without hearing all about the movie from others before seeing it. Also, standing in this line assures that tickets won't be sold out.

table top roleplaying games - by showing up early you usually get greater selection on abilities and character design, access to plot, and become the determining factor as to what classes/types/levels others get to play

classes at school - by showing up early you can ask professors questions before the class starts that allow you to sovle problems before grading or testing begins. You can also use the extra time to do homework before it is late.

work at school - early work is often credited with bonus points, allowing you to maximize your GPA which later determines your job and salary.

political clubs - often political leadership is based upon the first groups to attend who then layout the plans of the future. This tends to happen even though the actual positions, constitution, etc., have yet to be created.


the list goes on...
you seem to think that it will be a race to see who can be the best in a certain amount of time. well, sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not. I highly doubt it if anyone but those who feel the need to compensate for being complete losers in real life will take the battle system so seriously that they will play day in and day out until they reach the level cap. (which I can see you doing stare )


and in your last post, all those examples are from real life about not procrastinating, and not about starting everyone from block 1. it'd kind of be like making the 18 year olds drudge through the general credits while those who are 25 could skip them without consequence just because they've been around longer.
Anthon Noire
for a lot of people who arrived with no system in place, they had to create their own system, some relied on posting, some on roleplaying mechanics, some on wealth acquisition.

For many of these people, the new system is a reset.
how in the world do you figure that?
gaia won't suddenly delete all the forums, all of the other games guilds and junk, everything will still be available. it's not a "reset" at all, it's an addition. and I'm willing to guess that they figure a way to make it so you earn just as much gold per minute as you would if you spent that time posting or whatnot, so that inflation is avoided as much as possible. just because there's a new addition to a house doesn't mean that the res of it has to be destroyed, or it doesn't even mean that you have to go into the new portion of the house, it's just there for you to enjoy if you choose it.

You work hard enough and you'll gain what you want.
You make it sound like the people ahead of the others are cheating.
It's like being angry at the kid who always gets As in class while you get Cs.
Regarding the author of this thread. If I'm gathering this correctly your argument is that because there will be an elite eventually that all arguments about being fair are pointless. I'll assume somewhere in your thinking is a reward for those who have been on Gaia longer or somesuch. If this is wrong I'm in the dark about what your point is. Anyways assuming I've got the gist of your argument I find its basic idea wrong.

The Battle System will not be all of Gaia, it will be a big optional feature like any of the games are but it essentially should be self contained. The point is not that there will be an elite eventually in the game, but that we are not importing one automatically from the rest of Gaia. And while there will be an elite it will be for putting effort into the game itself, so that there is a distinction between the general Gaian elite (olbies who have say a Ninja Headband they can sell to raise gold) and the BS elite, and that the former can not get a radical head-start on becoming the latter.

Its one thing to get into a race after its started, its another to get to start running before the starting gun goes off.

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