Suggestions to fix the Balance Issue [Now with Ghi!]

[Valheita]

The Great Big Ring Balance Debate

Basically, I'm going to lay out a great big list of what I think needs fixin' to balance the rings, and you guys can tell me what you think.

Bear in mind, a lot of these challenge the "zOMG! should be hard" mind-set. I like to think of it as... heavily encouraging the use of buffs. =P

General Rings

• 20% reduction in Stamina Cost ( based on lowest Stamina Cost ) for all non-buffs that cost more than 4 and appropriate shifts in cooldown. This means that the already used rings such as Hack and Mantis are unchanged, but rings such as Fire Rain and Dervish which aren't as strong receive the efficiency boost they so badly need.
  
• Increase the ranges of all short ranged rings to being approximately 4 Avatar Widths. ( The same range as GGGuns and Hot Foot ). This doesn't apply to melee rings.
  
• Increase the magnitude of added on debuff effects from attacks.
  
• Allow bosses to be affected by Crowd Control, but with a low chance of activation. (Willpower needs fixin' anyway methinks. Iron Will doesn't seem to do a lot)
  
• Make AoE buffs only affect your crew members, and not require a target to launch. (Second part is optional)

Specific Rings

• Change Diagnose so that it shares it's healing. I.E it heals 350 to 1 person, or 250 to 2 people, or 150 to 3+ people. This still puts it's HPS below Bandage, but it's more crew handy.
  
• Alternatively to the above, make Diagnose remove active debuffs on the targets. This is if the above is too hard to code.
  
• GGGuns should have no additional debuff, but features small bleeding damage. Keep the AoE
  
• Shuriken should feature it's accuracy debuff at all RRs. Keep the AoE
  
• Hot Foot should have it's total damage higher than comparably spammable ranged rings, as it deals it's damage over time. It should also maintain it's debuff at all RRs. Keep the AoE
  
• Shark Attack should loose it's root effect and should consider having it's attack delay reduced.
  
• Adrenaline should become:
  

  Adrenaline

  You inject your ally with adrenaline, giving them the surge of power they need to survive.
  
  Range: Ally Only
  Duration: ---
  Stamina Cost: 5-6 Stamina
  Cooldown: 5 seconds
  
  RR1 -> 5 Stamina Restored
  RR2 -> 10 Stamina Restored
  RR3 -> 20 Stamina Restored
  RR4 -> 40 Stamina Restored

  
  
• Knife Sharpen should become:
  

  Soul Sharpen

  You strengthen the souls of your allies, making them more resilient to effects which would otherwise weaken them. Higher Rage Ranks can also make attacks bounce right off their buff souls.
  
  Range: Self + Allies
  Duration: 15 minutes
  Stamina Cost: 9-10 Stamina
  Cooldown: 15 seconds
  
  RR1 -> ??? Debuff Resistance
  RR2 -> ??? Debuff Resistance + ??? Reflection
  RR3 -> ??? Debuff Resistance + ??? Reflection
  RR4 -> ??? Debuff Resistance + ??? Reflection

  
  
• Turtle should have it's armour value increased to 75% at RR1 and 100% at RR4. Since Armour Pool is calculated after Persistent this means it'll still be valuable to have Persistent, as it'll make the pool last longer.
  
• Gumshoe should make higher rage ranks feature a Root effect.
  
• Taunt needs to become a full blown Crowd Control. Make it so the Animated cannot use "Secondary Abilities" such as healing, or make it so the Animated will ignore other players for the next x seconds. It's current hate building effect isn't working very well.
  
• Healing Halo should gain a polisher "Ghi Amp" type bonus when used with rage. Up to say... 10-25% more effective at RR4, rather than it's Weight Bonus.
  
• Fleet Feet should have it's stamina cost drastically reduced to allow it to be really used at the last minute.
  
• Duct Tape needs to feature a Health Pool, so it's not just "One attack and it's gone"
  

Ring-Sets

• Change the ability to one that isn't already covered by a buff! Some examples follow
  
• Pirate - Increases the amount of gold earned from defeating an enemy or opening a chest.
  
• Demon - Regains a small amount of Stamina when an enemy is defeated nearby. Say, 2 stamina for each enemy you've damaged that's killed on screen.
  
• Athlete - Regains Stamina at 50% of the normal standing rate while still in combat.
  
• Angel - Increases the rewards from a quest chain (provided Angel was equipped for all of the tasks)
  

Ghi Replacement

What if, instead of player-set Ghi buffs that developed over time, we had associated with each ring a passive stat boost that was affected by C.L. and the G bar.

So basically your "Ghi Boosts" would become relative to what rings you had equipped. This would also assist the role of specialisation in zOMG!. As rings associated with one archetype could benefit that archetype.

For example... Taunt, Turtle and Teflon Spray could all boost Max HP slightly when equipped. Wish, Bandage and Diagnose could boost Dodge. Mantis, GGGuns and Slash could boost Accuracy. Hack, Dervish and Fire Rain could boost... Persistent Armour?

Since this would also benefit ring balance, I've dropped it as a footnote here, rather than making a new thread.

I'm going to need one post after this one, btw. Just one though, then you guys can post.

[Valheita]

User Suggestions

Valheita

My suggestion is... people read this thread and respond =D

Lobotryas

I'm unsure of how big Turtle's armor pool is. I hope that if the devs increase damage reduction to 90-100% then they decrease armor pool proportionally so there would be a higher chance of Turtle ending before 30 seconds are out.

Saburoo

I'd say maybe only 60% at rr1... (then rr2 would be 70, rr3 80, and rr4 100) but also have a nerf in it's stamina cost? Why do we need so much stamina for our panic button?

Saburoo

Iunno much about Healing Halo, maybe it could offer a small max health bonus at full rage? That'd make more sense IMO

Bladeglory

The Way of the Sword
~~~0==}|3ladeglory~~~

I'm gonna leapfrog off of (I think it was) Taylor's idea and say that ranged rings should be improved by letting you run after using them. As it is now, they're quite frustrating to avoid damage with, since you have to press a key to run after using them. However, we'd be able to kite the enemies too easily if we didn't have to stop, unless they got a speed boost. (which would affect the entire game)

So, instead, make it so that a ranged ring temporarily stops movement, but re-instates it after the ring has fired. This would make kiting with ranged rings much more enjoyable, yet let animated still catch up with us before we kill them.

The downside of carrying all ranged rings is still that they're weak and practically worthless in close range combat. So if you run into enemies, you're still screwed. It's only if you get a jump on them that you'd have the advantage.

NEEDS MOAR TAX PLZ

While we are at the to-change list, I'd like to include that there needs to be a permanent accuracy/attack/defense buff(s) when you reach story line plot points; having iron lungs by being blessed by the spoilerspoiler should show outwardly too, even if its just to keep your accuracy or something up.
A CL10 with 0G'hi is still missing 30-50% of the time, regardless of his ambient G'hi boost milestones that he reached.
The storyline buffs make sense, and make you feel like you actually accomplished something with the arduous fight rather than just "oh lol you get a ring half your current CL, toss it in the bag and never use it".

HotRed_Streak

Like I said... a ghi stamina boost makes the most sense to me, since we already have an hp boost, etc.

This would hopefully happen along with a reduction in the huge amount of time it takes to get any ghi boosts built up.

DeathWyrmNexus

... Okay, time to throw down the ideas and s**t.

Summarized version

Accessory ideas

A form of specialization in the vein of special passive abilities that you can't normally get. It could even be expanded into the idea of Epic Recipes, items that require a lot of resources as well as special boss drops. Powers could be like element effects like Ice = Slow, Fire = DoT, Shadow = Life leech, etc etc... Or things like Bonuses to certain ring types like healing or attacks, etc.

One could even expand the idea into Bracelets in the vein of accessories in 90% of Rpgs. Two bracelets and one amulet. Permutations to make your own class.

Basic Ghi revamp idea

Basic concept is removing the time grind and replace it with player controlled farming. You can spend orbs, a readily available currency, and choose which stat to level when. It keeps in canon of your body absorbing Ghi over time but giving you control.

Rings work as skills that give stats but you can also choose to increase Ghi too. Want more ring drops, boost luck. Want more base health, boost it. Obviously this will require more responsibility with your growth but I feel that players have the brain to figure out what they want and go from there.

Specialized Ghi Idea

My specialized version, which can be implemented outside of my others, is a Ghi version of the accessory idea. Essentially you gain access to Ghi bonuses or as somebody else put it earlier as perks. XD

[Z741]

Seconded on further revising Willpower and Taunt. I've been made a meal to Walkers even if my crewmates carry taunt in the hive. ._.

Would Healing Halo still have its current weight gain, or would that be changed as well?

[Valheita]

Z741

Seconded on further revising Willpower and Taunt. I've been made a meal to Walkers even if my crewmates carry taunt in the hive. ._.

Would Healing Halo still have its current weight gain, or would that be changed as well?

The idea I put forward would see it's Weight gain removed, and replaced with the Ghi-Amp effect.

[Z741]

Valheita

Z741

Seconded on further revising Willpower and Taunt. I've been made a meal to Walkers even if my crewmates carry taunt in the hive. ._.

Would Healing Halo still have its current weight gain, or would that be changed as well?

The idea I put forward would see it's Weight gain removed, and replaced with the Ghi-Amp effect.

Oh, right. Darn speed reading. x_x

Wouldn't that make the G'hi Amps less of a commodity, though? I mean, I could imagine people ditching paid-for +50% in favor of a free +25% boost...

And interesting bit about the Angel set. It'd be quite the challenge to code, would it?

[Valheita]

Z741

Valheita

Z741

Seconded on further revising Willpower and Taunt. I've been made a meal to Walkers even if my crewmates carry taunt in the hive. ._.

Would Healing Halo still have its current weight gain, or would that be changed as well?

The idea I put forward would see it's Weight gain removed, and replaced with the Ghi-Amp effect.

Oh, right. Darn speed reading. x_x

Wouldn't that make the G'hi Amps less of a commodity, though? I mean, I could imagine people ditching paid-for +50% in favor of a free +25% boost...

And interesting bit about the Angel set. It'd be quite the challenge to code, would it?

It could make them less worthwhile. Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of the 10% myself.. But with that being said, based on recent events, I don't think the power-ups are selling very well anyway.

And yeah.. Angel could be pretty tricky to code. Though, if you add an extra box to the quest's data which has a boolean called "Angel" it's set to null by default, then at each task completion it checks for the Angel set and puts it as true if it's null and Angel is equipped, or false if Angel isn't equipped.. then when the quest is completed, it checks for whether it says true or false and grants the rewards as appropriate.

[fyerolight]

I like the ring suggestions, but I don't like very much the set suggestions. I don't know, maybe it's just me because I don't like ring sets in general.

[Valheita]

fyerolight

I like the ring suggestions, but I don't like very much the set suggestions. I don't know, maybe it's just me because I don't like ring sets in general.

Now is it the suggestions themselves you don't like, or just the idea of sets?

I don't much mind the idea of sets, I just think the current bonuses are pretty worthless. Extra gold on the other hand.. that's always welcome =D

[Lobotryas]

Interesting ideas, but could you offer any justification as to why these changes actually need to occur? For example, I think GGG is fine as it is; why add a DOT to it?

Valheita

Turtle should have it's armour value increased to 75% at RR1 and 100% at RR4. Since Armour Pool is calculated after Persistent this means it'll still be valuable to have Persistent, as it'll make the pool last longer.

I think there may be some misunderstanding here. As far as I can see, persistent armor and armor pool are two completely separate entities. If you have both kinds of armor on you when you take damage then the incoming damage would first get reduced by a percentage of one type of armor and then by a percentage of another type of armor.

I'm unsure of how big Turtle's armor pool is. I hope that if the devs increase damage reduction to 90-100% then they decrease armor pool proportionally so there would be a higher chance of Turtle ending before 30 seconds are out.

Valheita

• Demon - Regains a small amount of Stamina when an enemy is defeated nearby.
  
• Angel - Increases the rewards from a quest chain (provided Angel was equipped for all of the tasks)

The Demon set needs specifications on its effectiveness radius and how much stamina it will grant you per kill. As it is, the set sounds pretty broken.

Angel set is interesting, but I'd rather the devs go through the game and up the base quest reward instead of forcing people to wear a specific set. On top of that I imagine monitoring that people completed the quest with the set on will be next to impossible since players can log off or change rings in order to pursue other events while in the middle of a quest.


Edit: I'd say I also disagree with the proposed Healing Halo change. Now what would be cool is if we had a (for example) Mountain Dew EXXTREME NPC in Barton who would give you Mountain Dew. You then "get charged" by doing the Dew and receive a 10% bonus to your attacks for 15-20 minutes.

[Z741]

Ah, but what would the specifications with Angel set be? You have to wear it from start until finish of a quest, or only when you turn said quest in? ... not to mention new players not knowing set bonuses, much less having all of the required rings.

And lol, Mountain Dew Extreme. xD More sponsorship money for Gaia?

[Valheita]

Lobotryas

Interesting ideas, but could you offer any justification as to why these changes actually need to occur? For example, I think GGG is fine as it is; why add a DOT to it?

Valheita

Turtle should have it's armour value increased to 75% at RR1 and 100% at RR4. Since Armour Pool is calculated after Persistent this means it'll still be valuable to have Persistent, as it'll make the pool last longer.

I think there may be some misunderstanding here. As far as I can see, persistent armor and armor pool are two completely separate entities. If you have both kinds of armor on you when you take damage then the incoming damage would first get reduced by a percentage of one type of armor and then by a percentage of another type of armor.

I'm unsure of how big Turtle's armor pool is. I hope that if the devs increase damage reduction to 90-100% then they decrease armor pool proportionally so there would be a higher chance of Turtle ending before 30 seconds are out.

Valheita

• Demon - Regains a small amount of Stamina when an enemy is defeated nearby.
  
• Angel - Increases the rewards from a quest chain (provided Angel was equipped for all of the tasks)

The Demon set needs specifications on its effectiveness radius and how much stamina it will grant you per kill. As it is, the set sounds pretty broken.

Angel set is interesting, but I'd rather the devs go through the game and up the base quest reward instead of forcing people to wear a specific set. On top of that I imagine monitoring that people completed the quest with the set on will be next to impossible since players can log off or change rings in order to pursue other events while in the middle of a quest.

Hmm. Well, justification is largely subjective for many of them. In this case, GGGuns was given DoT as it's balancing factor against the debuffs of Hot Foot and Shuriken.

The reasoning behind the change to ranged rings was because a lot of them are seen as comparatively worthless because of their lower DPS/DPE. I don't think this will fully address that, but I would like to think it helps a bit.

Now, regarding Turtle.. I probably wasn't very clear. Persistent Armour's percentage is taken off first, which would mean that Turtle's armour pool would indeed last longer if you have the Persistent on as well. As you pretty much stated. As for the damage pool ending... Yeah, I can accept that. It's not much of an armour pool if it never depletes. I'll stick that in the user suggestion section.

Personally, I was thinking 2 stamina per enemy (which has been hit by the player) killed on screen. I wouldn't expect this to be too broken, though perhaps I could have explained the ideas better. I'll amend that shortly.

They -could- just up the quest reward, but I'm trying to think of advantages for Ring Sets here, not more general changes xd It's the first that sprang to mind. Additionally, logging off shouldn't be a problem if it's treated as a quest-related boolean value as per my discussion with Z.

@EDIT: On what grounds do you disagree?

[fyerolight]

Valheita

fyerolight

I like the ring suggestions, but I don't like very much the set suggestions. I don't know, maybe it's just me because I don't like ring sets in general.

Now is it the suggestions themselves you don't like, or just the idea of sets?

I don't much mind the idea of sets, I just think the current bonuses are pretty worthless. Extra gold on the other hand.. that's always welcome =D

The bonuses are good, its just the fact that for some/most sets you are forced to use some "useless" rings, IMO. But the bonuses you said are quite good/useful.

[Saburoo]

How come Val makes all the really awesome threads these days? Not fair talk2hand

I think all ranged rings should be buffed just a tad in damage dealt, because atm they are wimpy wimpy wimpy compared to the hefty hefty hefty melee rings.

Low chance for CC on bosses, DO WANT, I mean, we might actually see some all out CCers if we did that, as long as it wasn't as broken as when tape or cat almost always hit a boss and they were cake ;O

Adrenaline would finally make ******** sense, and, you know, be useful, and knife sharpen doesn't look bad. Wayyyyy better then the sucky debuffs that do nothing that we have atm xd

I'd say maybe only 60% at rr1... (then rr2 would be 70, rr3 80, and rr4 100) but also have a nerf in it's stamina cost? Why do we need so much stamina for our panic button?

Yeeeeessssssssssss on taunt.

Iunno much about Healing Halo, maybe it could offer a small max health bonus at full rage? That'd make more sense IMO

I'm afraid a balance with duct tape would mean... a balance for the way enemies use tape on us *shudders*

[Saburoo]

Valheita

Personally, I was thinking 2 stamina per enemy (which has been hit by the player) killed on screen. I wouldn't expect this to be too broken, though perhaps I could have explained the ideas better. I'll amend that shortly.

2 stamina per enemy? Any limits on that? Like, demon=fire rain, fire rain in Hive hitting lots of shockroaches=god set in the Hive.

I mean, taking advantage of fire rain while taking down those walkers and striders... almost infinite stamina for the majority of the wave, no thanks.

[Z741]

@ Duct-Taping: There's already Lorelei with her Sleep abilities..... not to mention EB. o_o