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exchange the gems and amulets for an powerful passive ring and let everyone enter dms?

yes 0.29268292682927 29.3% [ 12 ]
no 0.5609756097561 56.1% [ 23 ]
other (write your idea in the thread) 0.14634146341463 14.6% [ 6 ]
Total Votes:[ 41 ]
< 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
vampiroz's avatar

Dangerous Bloodsucker

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vampiroz
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vampiroz
i hate haveing to group up with idiots i just want to play alone!!!!!!!!!!


Calls people idiots. Comes up with this ring idea.



a million sperm and this is the one that makes it to the egg?



you jelly?



says am i jelly. yet we both made it to the egg.

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vaginas
Wut Panda's avatar

Shirtless Noob

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Before I go to sleep, I though of name that fits the ring.

Super ultra supreme ultimate Mt.Fuji flaming tornado cosmic atomic strawberry golden shining roundhouse 360 pelvic thrust pimp ring of GOD
.
vampiroz's avatar

Dangerous Bloodsucker

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Wut Panda
Before I go to sleep, I though of name that fits the ring.

Super ultra supreme ultimate Mt.Fuji flaming tornado cosmic atomic strawberry golden shining roundhouse 360 pelvic thrust pimp ring of GOD
.
haha the bunny has a huge brain for a small head.

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Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

vampiroz
MAIN IDEA:
ring name: ???
passive ability: "abilitys inside dms are underlined" when in dms the weakness of the monsters is you. you will always have an lightsource. when creatures lay an hand on you they will be ignited and burned until they are dead. become as hot as the sun as if it was in the room with you. you will have the strength of kamilia as if you were her equal. (gets stronger the higher the cl) can have an chance each time your enemy melees you for them to be knocked out for an few seconeds aprox: 7-15 sec. (randomly) teleports you directly to the enemy you are attacking(if you are in an instance) your rings recharge a little faster depending on your overall CL very rare chance: able to instantly kill an enemy (only works on minions aka any creature that is not a boss)active ability: revive 1-3 people to full health. recharge rate: ???

Alright, so a number of separate, unique abilities; though I can't tell from the description whether they're intended to work outside of DMS. As far as I can tell, the abilities are as follows:

  • When attacked by enemies, causes persistent DoT 'Burn'; sometimes also causes Sleep?
  • "Strength of Kamila"?
  • Randomly teleports you near enemies as you attack them.
  • Slight decrease in Cooldown times.
  • Rarely produces death effect on enemies being attacked; contractual boss immunity.
  • Can be used to fully revive multiple crewmates.


The biggest, most obvious issue is that this appears to be about 6 different rings, each of which is itself a little 'iffy' in the balance department; if you actually expect it to be balanced against other rings - as you've said - then each of the effects would have to be so weak as to be almost negligible. For comparison, Hornet's Nest currently fulfills more roles than any other ring, at 3 - because this makes it impossible to do any of those roles well, Hornet's Nest is essentially the weakest non-broken (read: non-Taunt) ring in the game right now. In order to balance a ring that does twice that much, it would need to be even worse - and nobody is going to want to trade their Bloodstone Amulets for that.

Now, to examine the effects one-at-a-time: the first one is actually interesting, as the premise of 'damage shields' is do-able, appealing, has a reasonable modicum of flavour in it, and could be balanced pretty reasonably. I'm not sure that the 'knockout' bit actually fits very well, as the concept of sunlight more immediately evokes something like blinding (Accuracy debuff). If I wanted to make it feel special, I'd consider shoehorning the 'death effect' bit to take that place, as it fits better with the premise of making what touches you burst into flames. A weak (nonstackable) DoT with Accuracy buff that activates whenever an enemy hits you would be pretty interesting, and the extra bit would just be rare, occasional 'icing' - this much could be workable as a ring, but I'd argue (as with almost any effect) that it's more interesting as an active buff, than a passive.

"Strength of Kamila" is another vague, evocative description - it doesn't help us to determine what it does, what it affects, or how it would be balanced. If I had to guess, I'd say you intended it as another Fitness effect - a passive buff that is supposed to bring your stats to Kamila's levels. Unfortunately, to balance a ring alongside Fitness that does virtually the same thing, you get virtually the same ring. Nonetheless, you'll have to be a little clearer if you meant that portion to have some kind of mechanical significance.

Randomly teleporting yourself toward enemies sounds as much like a curse, as a blessing. Now, assuming the effect really means that it just teleports you within range of an enemy when using an attack ring on them (so you don't teleport 'next to' enemies when throwing long-range attacks), it's simply a speed boost that's only effective during the 'Auto Move-in-range' effect. I won't say that's not an interesting effect, but it having it function 'at random' makes such an effect a bit too unreliable to really meet its potential. You might be able to balance a ring with exclusively this effect, and it would certainly have some interesting build-around potential, but it's not something I'd be comfortable with tacking onto other effects. Probably worth a ring of its own someday, though.

Decreasing Cooldown times is commonly suggested, but in my opinion it's a bit of a lame ability - the effect would have to be so minor as to be unnoticeable for humans (especially considering the fact that we don't activate rings immediately when they're available), or so short in duration relative to its cooldown that it would simply be a reverse Turtle. Being that this was designed as a Passive, it would obviously need to be the former; I'd at least consider the latter, but I've yet to see any designs for it that really impressed me.

I've considered 'death effects' in the past, and they pose a bit of an issue; you can't make death effects so common as to be predictable, but you can't base a ring around something if you can't do it commonly. I wouldn't suggest any rings that focus on death effects, though slipping them in as minor add-ons to other effects - as above - generates a lot of impact, even without necessitating much predictability. The only way I could see regular use of 'death effects' would be a sort of 'doom clock' ability, that uses the effect after a certain buff duration expires - this would prevent it from showing up effectively against run-of-the-mill enemies, and would probably be even better at evoking the impression of inevitability and power that such a ring asks for. But that's a bit beside the point, I'm afraid. sweatdrop

Fully reviving multiple crewmates is not 'balanced' by any means - it's a strict improvement over Defibrillate, after all. Without vastly higher costs, there's no way to balance a multiple-revive ring against other extant rings. I've suggested an AoE-Defibrillate effect once - called "Sacrifice" - but it dazed the user in return; I don't think that's the direction you'd want to head for this, anyhow. Being that you seemed to consider this a ring to facilitate soloing to begin with, though, I'm not sure why you'd even consider an effect that exclusively applied to other players. It seems to belie the intent of the ring pretty significantly, no? redface
Master_Eselri's avatar

Magical Cutesmasher

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Ring's... overpowered. In anycase, I prefer having it open, but then... the discussion regarding the bloodstones makes it... hard.
vampiroz's avatar

Dangerous Bloodsucker

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vampiroz
MAIN IDEA:
ring name: ???
passive ability: "abilitys inside dms are underlined" when in dms the weakness of the monsters is you. you will always have an lightsource. when creatures lay an hand on you they will be ignited and burned until they are dead. become as hot as the sun as if it was in the room with you. you will have the strength of kamilia as if you were her equal. (gets stronger the higher the cl) can have an chance each time your enemy melees you for them to be knocked out for an few seconeds aprox: 7-15 sec. (randomly) teleports you directly to the enemy you are attacking(if you are in an instance) your rings recharge a little faster depending on your overall CL very rare chance: able to instantly kill an enemy (only works on minions aka any creature that is not a boss)active ability: revive 1-3 people to full health. recharge rate: ???

Alright, so a number of separate, unique abilities; though I can't tell from the description whether they're intended to work outside of DMS. As far as I can tell, the abilities are as follows:

  • When attacked by enemies, causes persistent DoT 'Burn'; sometimes also causes Sleep?
  • "Strength of Kamila"?
  • Randomly teleports you near enemies as you attack them.
  • Slight decrease in Cooldown times.
  • Rarely produces death effect on enemies being attacked; contractual boss immunity.
  • Can be used to fully revive multiple crewmates.


The biggest, most obvious issue is that this appears to be about 6 different rings, each of which is itself a little 'iffy' in the balance department; if you actually expect it to be balanced against other rings - as you've said - then each of the effects would have to be so weak as to be almost negligible. For comparison, Hornet's Nest currently fulfills more roles than any other ring, at 3 - because this makes it impossible to do any of those roles well, Hornet's Nest is essentially the weakest non-broken (read: non-Taunt) ring in the game right now. In order to balance a ring that does twice that much, it would need to be even worse - and nobody is going to want to trade their Bloodstone Amulets for that.

Now, to examine the effects one-at-a-time: the first one is actually interesting, as the premise of 'damage shields' is do-able, appealing, has a reasonable modicum of flavour in it, and could be balanced pretty reasonably. I'm not sure that the 'knockout' bit actually fits very well, as the concept of sunlight more immediately evokes something like blinding (Accuracy debuff). If I wanted to make it feel special, I'd consider shoehorning the 'death effect' bit to take that place, as it fits better with the premise of making what touches you burst into flames. A weak (nonstackable) DoT with Accuracy buff that activates whenever an enemy hits you would be pretty interesting, and the extra bit would just be rare, occasional 'icing' - this much could be workable as a ring, but I'd argue (as with almost any effect) that it's more interesting as an active buff, than a passive.

"Strength of Kamila" is another vague, evocative description - it doesn't help us to determine what it does, what it affects, or how it would be balanced. If I had to guess, I'd say you intended it as another Fitness effect - a passive buff that is supposed to bring your stats to Kamila's levels. Unfortunately, to balance a ring alongside Fitness that does virtually the same thing, you get virtually the same ring. Nonetheless, you'll have to be a little clearer if you meant that portion to have some kind of mechanical significance.

Randomly teleporting yourself toward enemies sounds as much like a curse, as a blessing. Now, assuming the effect really means that it just teleports you within range of an enemy when using an attack ring on them (so you don't teleport 'next to' enemies when throwing long-range attacks), it's simply a speed boost that's only effective during the 'Auto Move-in-range' effect. I won't say that's not an interesting effect, but it having it function 'at random' makes such an effect a bit too unreliable to really meet its potential. You might be able to balance a ring with exclusively this effect, and it would certainly have some interesting build-around potential, but it's not something I'd be comfortable with tacking onto other effects. Probably worth a ring of its own someday, though.

Decreasing Cooldown times is commonly suggested, but in my opinion it's a bit of a lame ability - the effect would have to be so minor as to be unnoticeable for humans (especially considering the fact that we don't activate rings immediately when they're available), or so short in duration relative to its cooldown that it would simply be a reverse Turtle. Being that this was designed as a Passive, it would obviously need to be the former; I'd at least consider the latter, but I've yet to see any designs for it that really impressed me.

I've considered 'death effects' in the past, and they pose a bit of an issue; you can't make death effects so common as to be predictable, but you can't base a ring around something if you can't do it commonly. I wouldn't suggest any rings that focus on death effects, though slipping them in as minor add-ons to other effects - as above - generates a lot of impact, even without necessitating much predictability. The only way I could see regular use of 'death effects' would be a sort of 'doom clock' ability, that uses the effect after a certain buff duration expires - this would prevent it from showing up effectively against run-of-the-mill enemies, and would probably be even better at evoking the impression of inevitability and power that such a ring asks for. But that's a bit beside the point, I'm afraid. sweatdrop

Fully reviving multiple crewmates is not 'balanced' by any means - it's a strict improvement over Defibrillate, after all. Without vastly higher costs, there's no way to balance a multiple-revive ring against other extant rings. I've suggested an AoE-Defibrillate effect once - called "Sacrifice" - but it dazed the user in return; I don't think that's the direction you'd want to head for this, anyhow. Being that you seemed to consider this a ring to facilitate soloing to begin with, though, I'm not sure why you'd even consider an effect that exclusively applied to other players. It seems to belie the intent of the ring pretty significantly, no? redface
well i read your view on my ring and would like to know how you would improve it to help solo-ers. it would be very interesting cause i really like your views of my ring.
vampiroz's avatar

Dangerous Bloodsucker

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Red Kutai
vampiroz
MAIN IDEA:
ring name: ???
passive ability: "abilitys inside dms are underlined" when in dms the weakness of the monsters is you. you will always have an lightsource. when creatures lay an hand on you they will be ignited and burned until they are dead. become as hot as the sun as if it was in the room with you. you will have the strength of kamilia as if you were her equal. (gets stronger the higher the cl) can have an chance each time your enemy melees you for them to be knocked out for an few seconeds aprox: 7-15 sec. (randomly) teleports you directly to the enemy you are attacking(if you are in an instance) your rings recharge a little faster depending on your overall CL very rare chance: able to instantly kill an enemy (only works on minions aka any creature that is not a boss)active ability: revive 1-3 people to full health. recharge rate: ???

Alright, so a number of separate, unique abilities; though I can't tell from the description whether they're intended to work outside of DMS. As far as I can tell, the abilities are as follows:

  • When attacked by enemies, causes persistent DoT 'Burn'; sometimes also causes Sleep?
  • "Strength of Kamila"?
  • Randomly teleports you near enemies as you attack them.
  • Slight decrease in Cooldown times.
  • Rarely produces death effect on enemies being attacked; contractual boss immunity.
  • Can be used to fully revive multiple crewmates.


The biggest, most obvious issue is that this appears to be about 6 different rings, each of which is itself a little 'iffy' in the balance department; if you actually expect it to be balanced against other rings - as you've said - then each of the effects would have to be so weak as to be almost negligible. For comparison, Hornet's Nest currently fulfills more roles than any other ring, at 3 - because this makes it impossible to do any of those roles well, Hornet's Nest is essentially the weakest non-broken (read: non-Taunt) ring in the game right now. In order to balance a ring that does twice that much, it would need to be even worse - and nobody is going to want to trade their Bloodstone Amulets for that.

Now, to examine the effects one-at-a-time: the first one is actually interesting, as the premise of 'damage shields' is do-able, appealing, has a reasonable modicum of flavour in it, and could be balanced pretty reasonably. I'm not sure that the 'knockout' bit actually fits very well, as the concept of sunlight more immediately evokes something like blinding (Accuracy debuff). If I wanted to make it feel special, I'd consider shoehorning the 'death effect' bit to take that place, as it fits better with the premise of making what touches you burst into flames. A weak (nonstackable) DoT with Accuracy buff that activates whenever an enemy hits you would be pretty interesting, and the extra bit would just be rare, occasional 'icing' - this much could be workable as a ring, but I'd argue (as with almost any effect) that it's more interesting as an active buff, than a passive.

"Strength of Kamila" is another vague, evocative description - it doesn't help us to determine what it does, what it affects, or how it would be balanced. If I had to guess, I'd say you intended it as another Fitness effect - a passive buff that is supposed to bring your stats to Kamila's levels. Unfortunately, to balance a ring alongside Fitness that does virtually the same thing, you get virtually the same ring. Nonetheless, you'll have to be a little clearer if you meant that portion to have some kind of mechanical significance.

Randomly teleporting yourself toward enemies sounds as much like a curse, as a blessing. Now, assuming the effect really means that it just teleports you within range of an enemy when using an attack ring on them (so you don't teleport 'next to' enemies when throwing long-range attacks), it's simply a speed boost that's only effective during the 'Auto Move-in-range' effect. I won't say that's not an interesting effect, but it having it function 'at random' makes such an effect a bit too unreliable to really meet its potential. You might be able to balance a ring with exclusively this effect, and it would certainly have some interesting build-around potential, but it's not something I'd be comfortable with tacking onto other effects. Probably worth a ring of its own someday, though.

Decreasing Cooldown times is commonly suggested, but in my opinion it's a bit of a lame ability - the effect would have to be so minor as to be unnoticeable for humans (especially considering the fact that we don't activate rings immediately when they're available), or so short in duration relative to its cooldown that it would simply be a reverse Turtle. Being that this was designed as a Passive, it would obviously need to be the former; I'd at least consider the latter, but I've yet to see any designs for it that really impressed me.

I've considered 'death effects' in the past, and they pose a bit of an issue; you can't make death effects so common as to be predictable, but you can't base a ring around something if you can't do it commonly. I wouldn't suggest any rings that focus on death effects, though slipping them in as minor add-ons to other effects - as above - generates a lot of impact, even without necessitating much predictability. The only way I could see regular use of 'death effects' would be a sort of 'doom clock' ability, that uses the effect after a certain buff duration expires - this would prevent it from showing up effectively against run-of-the-mill enemies, and would probably be even better at evoking the impression of inevitability and power that such a ring asks for. But that's a bit beside the point, I'm afraid. sweatdrop

Fully reviving multiple crewmates is not 'balanced' by any means - it's a strict improvement over Defibrillate, after all. Without vastly higher costs, there's no way to balance a multiple-revive ring against other extant rings. I've suggested an AoE-Defibrillate effect once - called "Sacrifice" - but it dazed the user in return; I don't think that's the direction you'd want to head for this, anyhow. Being that you seemed to consider this a ring to facilitate soloing to begin with, though, I'm not sure why you'd even consider an effect that exclusively applied to other players. It seems to belie the intent of the ring pretty significantly, no? redface
How about an passive ring that can do the following and still remain an decent build without being overpowered
•When attacked by enemies, causes persistent DoT 'Burn'; Slight decrease in Cooldown times; sometimes also causes Sleep
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

vegeta, what does the scouter say about this hypothetical ring's power level
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

vampiroz
well i read your view on my ring and would like to know how you would improve it to help solo-ers. it would be very interesting cause i really like your views of my ring.

One of the hardest things about designing rings for solo players is that just about anything which is good for one player, is good for a Crew - it's actually rather difficult to make rings that specifically enable soloing, because those same rings have to be balanced as they'll be used in a Crew. As such, if you really want to encourage soloing through a ring, you have to impose some sort of restriction that essentially requires it to be used for soloing. Additionally, you have to be mindful of the limited resources a Solo player has available; because they lack Crew support, solo players spend more Stamina and Rage on buffs and healing, compared to an average Crew player - this gives you the opportunity to create effects that are good for soloers because they are resource-light, but also necessitates that you keep any effects for soloers relatively cheap.

An example of a very simple soloist ring would be 'Second Wind' - a mediocre self-only healing ring that has a relatively low Stamina cost, in exchange for a relatively long Cooldown. Because the ring is very Stamina-cheap, it allows solo players to invest their Stamina where they really want to, while not sacrificing that crucial self-healing role. Obviously this isn't the direction you're headed with your suggestions - and it isn't 'flashy' enough to fit the position, anyhow - but it gives an idea of how solo-encouraging effects tend to play out.

The first thought I'd have for a more aggressive ring for soloers is something themed around 'Dueling' - mechanically, something which is more effective the fewer names are on your target's Hate list. Generally players playing together in Crews will accrue Hate collaterally on all engaged enemies, which would reduce the effectiveness of the ring in those situations - however, players playing alone (especially within instances) would be able to use the ring at its full efficiency. Indeed, it might even be possible for such a ring to facilitate an in-Crew 'flanking' strategy, where one 'rogue' Crewmember attacks the few enemies that aren't otherwise engaged, essentially functioning as a soloer within a Crew. Such a tactic would still require some normal Crew structure, to deal with the enemies that do become engaged in groups, and it would be a bit fragile by nature, but it would offer an interesting possibility to role-oriented gameplay, and even offer a easy-to-fit slot for solo-oriented players within Crews. 3nodding

The biggest obstacle is that while you want such a ring to be 'good', you don't want it to be an auto-include - if it's an attack, for instance, you would want the player to make a decision between it and Hack or Mantis, rather than just taking 'the best one'. This means it would need some sort of drawback - particularly one that is relevant for soloers - so that players who seek to take advantage of it have to work a bit harder to do so. Offering a bit more power in exchange for less flexibility is usually fair, but I'm not sure what sort of drawback seems most natural, based on the theme... confused

EDIT: I didn't mention the most obvious soloer ability - effects that work better when there are fewer members in your Crew. To me, that's simply too straightforward and anti-Crew message to be sending in zOMG!, and it offers no potential to work around it within a Crew for interesting interactions; being that it would still face most of the issues that other solo effects already face, I think that such effects would probably just overshoot what we'd like to achieve with them...
vampiroz's avatar

Dangerous Bloodsucker

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vampiroz
well i read your view on my ring and would like to know how you would improve it to help solo-ers. it would be very interesting cause i really like your views of my ring.

One of the hardest things about designing rings for solo players is that just about anything which is good for one player, is good for a Crew - it's actually rather difficult to make rings that specifically enable soloing, because those same rings have to be balanced as they'll be used in a Crew. As such, if you really want to encourage soloing through a ring, you have to impose some sort of restriction that essentially requires it to be used for soloing. Additionally, you have to be mindful of the limited resources a Solo player has available; because they lack Crew support, solo players spend more Stamina and Rage on buffs and healing, compared to an average Crew player - this gives you the opportunity to create effects that are good for soloers because they are resource-light, but also necessitates that you keep any effects for soloers relatively cheap.

An example of a very simple soloist ring would be 'Second Wind' - a mediocre self-only healing ring that has a relatively low Stamina cost, in exchange for a relatively long Cooldown. Because the ring is very Stamina-cheap, it allows solo players to invest their Stamina where they really want to, while not sacrificing that crucial self-healing role. Obviously this isn't the direction you're headed with your suggestions - and it isn't 'flashy' enough to fit the position, anyhow - but it gives an idea of how solo-encouraging effects tend to play out.

The first thought I'd have for a more aggressive ring for soloers is something themed around 'Dueling' - mechanically, something which is more effective the fewer names are on your target's Hate list. Generally players playing together in Crews will accrue Hate collaterally on all engaged enemies, which would reduce the effectiveness of the ring in those situations - however, players playing alone (especially within instances) would be able to use the ring at its full efficiency. Indeed, it might even be possible for such a ring to facilitate an in-Crew 'flanking' strategy, where one 'rogue' Crewmember attacks the few enemies that aren't otherwise engaged, essentially functioning as a soloer within a Crew. Such a tactic would still require some normal Crew structure, to deal with the enemies that do become engaged in groups, and it would be a bit fragile by nature, but it would offer an interesting possibility to role-oriented gameplay, and even offer a easy-to-fit slot for solo-oriented players within Crews. 3nodding

The biggest obstacle is that while you want such a ring to be 'good', you don't want it to be an auto-include - if it's an attack, for instance, you would want the player to make a decision between it and Hack or Mantis, rather than just taking 'the best one'. This means it would need some sort of drawback - particularly one that is relevant for soloers - so that players who seek to take advantage of it have to work a bit harder to do so. Offering a bit more power in exchange for less flexibility is usually fair, but I'm not sure what sort of drawback seems most natural, based on the theme... confused

EDIT: I didn't mention the most obvious soloer ability - effects that work better when there are fewer members in your Crew. To me, that's simply too straightforward and anti-Crew message to be sending in zOMG!, and it offers no potential to work around it within a Crew for interesting interactions; being that it would still face most of the issues that other solo effects already face, I think that such effects would probably just overshoot what we'd like to achieve with them...
what about if the ring is unusable in an crew and is blacked-out and has an lock icon over it so you can use it and know it's not working. like when your dazed from when you were barely revived.
vampiroz's avatar

Dangerous Bloodsucker

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curtneko
vegeta, what does the scouter say about this hypothetical ring's power level
it's over 9000!!!!!!!!
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

vampiroz
curtneko
vegeta, what does the scouter say about this hypothetical ring's power level
it's over 9000!!!!!!!!
/thread
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

vampiroz
what about if the ring is unusable in an crew and is blacked-out and has an lock icon over it so you can use it and know it's not working. like when your dazed from when you were barely revived.

That's precisely what I talked about in my 'edit' portion, just with a harsher 'curve' - it turns off immediately upon hitting 2 Crewmembers, rather than gradually getting weaker as the number of Crewmembers goes up. As it doesn't address any of the issues of the curved-out method, I'd be opposed to it for all the same reasons - simply put, it's a little too straightforward, to the point that it restricts the ring's potential. I think we can facilitate solo-encouraging rings without 'dropping anvils', as it were... sweatdrop
Little Miss Fortune's avatar

Witty Noob

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I like the idea of being able to exchange the bloodstone things for a ring, but I don't like the idea of this particular ring because I don't think DMS should be soloable. Oh, and OP is ******** psychotic
cluelesscreature's avatar

Timid Fairy

Okay, I've read your argument about developers not making this ring overpowered and all. So tell me this:

Why should I give up my hard-earned bloodstone for a measly ring that will only be slightly better than fitness?

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