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Berryfarmer
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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Without the restrictions everything would con purple to you, which means no orbs, loot or least importantly gold would drop from enemies. Tell me how a restriction that forces you to con yellow, blue, or green to an enemy makes it harder to get items.


That is sorta true but your HP are generally reduced because of the restriction which is a disadvantage that you have.
Purple Pimp Crusader's avatar

Quotable Lunatic

Not having unlimited heath is only a disadvantage if you don't want to actually play the game.

There are plenty of ways to increase your health, and the Animated don't have near the healing ability the players have. You have superior armament, superior defenses, superior health recovery, superior thinking ability (the animated don't even have a really dumb AI, just a program that allows target-attack and nothing else), and you're complaining because you don't have insanely high health as well?

I'm not trying to be mean, but please, seriously think about this. It's possible to solo most instances on hard if you're smart about it- slightly lower base health is a minuscule disadvantage at worst.

Also, your health does not 'gradually reduce' because of restrictions. Base health is CLx100, period. Your ghi health boost gradually decreases as your ghi meter empties, but that has nothing to do with level restrictions.
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Berryfarmer
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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Without the restrictions everything would con purple to you, which means no orbs, loot or least importantly gold would drop from enemies. Tell me how a restriction that forces you to con yellow, blue, or green to an enemy makes it harder to get items.


That is sorta true but your HP are generally reduced because of the restriction which is a disadvantage that you have.


Even though you decrease your health by capping yourself, there are generally ways of raising it while remaining at the same CL.
You could use Meat or Sweetheart, or get the Ghi hp boost.
The issue of HP = CL x 100 has never really been a problem in zOMG.
If you find yourself dying too much because of low hp, you are probably facing too many monsters or too strong ones.
To put things in perspective, by lowering your CL you get:
Disadvantage: Low hp (mitigated in various ways)
Advantage: You get loot from monsters that would otherwise be purple; You get to actually play a game, instead of PUSH BUTTON, WATCH MOB DIE, PROFIT dramallama
Think about it.
Memory Haunts You's avatar

Rainbow Hunter

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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Exactly. The fact that it all shouldn't be too easy, is kind of the point. 3nodding
A game needs to be a bit of a challenge, after all.
Valheita's avatar

Vicious Nerd

10,600 Points
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Memory Haunts You
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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Exactly. The fact that it all shouldn't be too easy, is kind of the point. 3nodding
A game needs to be a bit of a challenge, after all.
Does it?
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

Valheita
Memory Haunts You
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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Exactly. The fact that it all shouldn't be too easy, is kind of the point. 3nodding
A game needs to be a bit of a challenge, after all.
Does it?

If you want to appeal to the majority of people who seek to play games... Yes, yes it does. whee

Winning is more meaningful with a challenge. The gameplay itself is more dramatic. Apart from those users like yourself and mine, who enjoy the game primarily as an expressive outlet, it certainly is the case that challenge increases the value of gameplay. And so long as you're reasonably careful to ensure that that challenge doesn't significantly obstruct players' ability to express themselves, all's well.

Are you aiming to assert that the game would be more fun if it posed no challenge at all? I do a few things pretty regularly that pose no significant challenge (walking and breathing spring to mind), and they're not things that I - nor many others - generally regard as 'fun'... sweatdrop
Valheita's avatar

Vicious Nerd

10,600 Points
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Red Kutai
Valheita
Memory Haunts You
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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Exactly. The fact that it all shouldn't be too easy, is kind of the point. 3nodding
A game needs to be a bit of a challenge, after all.
Does it?

If you want to appeal to the majority of people who seek to play games... Yes, yes it does. whee

Winning is more meaningful with a challenge. The gameplay itself is more dramatic. Apart from those users like yourself and mine, who enjoy the game primarily as an expressive outlet, it certainly is the case that challenge increases the value of gameplay. And so long as you're reasonably careful to ensure that that challenge doesn't significantly obstruct players' ability to express themselves, all's well.

Are you aiming to assert that the game would be more fun if it posed no challenge at all? I do a few things pretty regularly that pose no significant challenge (walking and breathing spring to mind), and they're not things that I - nor many others - generally regard as 'fun'... sweatdrop
Ah, I must disagree. Challenge should be optional.

That reaches the greatest range of players.
RafiCat's avatar

Mega Hoarder

Memory Haunts You
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Joodoo
**** no.


Hmph. A lot of you agree with restrictions but I sorta believe it makes it more difficult to get items too.


Exactly. The fact that it all shouldn't be too easy, is kind of the point. 3nodding
A game needs to be a bit of a challenge, after all.


I agree, it wouldn't be fun without a challenge. In fact, imo there's already too little challenge in this game.
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

Valheita
Ah, I must disagree. Challenge should be optional.

That reaches the greatest range of players.

Challenge is optional. If you'd like to simply read the storyline, I believe the vast majority is available on the zOMG! Wiki. Perhaps Gaia should make it available directly, though. razz

Games are goal-oriented by nature. Goals necessitate challenge, or investment of another form - if you've already reached it, it's no longer a goal. Should I presume you're asserting that there should be another form of acceptable investment, apart from challenge?
Valheita's avatar

Vicious Nerd

10,600 Points
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Red Kutai
Valheita
Ah, I must disagree. Challenge should be optional.

That reaches the greatest range of players.

Challenge is optional. If you'd like to simply read the storyline, I believe the vast majority is available on the zOMG! Wiki. Perhaps Gaia should make it available directly, though. razz

Games are goal-oriented by nature. Goals necessitate challenge, or investment of another form - if you've already reached it, it's no longer a goal. Should I presume you're asserting that there should be another form of acceptable investment, apart from challenge?
Is levelling up not investment?
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

Valheita
Red Kutai
Valheita
Ah, I must disagree. Challenge should be optional.

That reaches the greatest range of players.

Challenge is optional. If you'd like to simply read the storyline, I believe the vast majority is available on the zOMG! Wiki. Perhaps Gaia should make it available directly, though. razz

Games are goal-oriented by nature. Goals necessitate challenge, or investment of another form - if you've already reached it, it's no longer a goal. Should I presume you're asserting that there should be another form of acceptable investment, apart from challenge?
Is levelling up not investment?

If there's no challenge to it? How would it be?

All I can gather is that you mean to say the time invested in the game should eliminate the need for challenge-based investment; but without a challenge, time investment is just a matter of staring at the screen for a period of time. I suppose that does fulfill the technical requirements for a "goal", but largely misses out on the entertainment expected from a "game".

And, again, this really sounds much more like a movie, or a book, than a game. Surely I'm missing something? redface
Valheita's avatar

Vicious Nerd

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Red Kutai
Valheita
Red Kutai
Valheita
Ah, I must disagree. Challenge should be optional.

That reaches the greatest range of players.

Challenge is optional. If you'd like to simply read the storyline, I believe the vast majority is available on the zOMG! Wiki. Perhaps Gaia should make it available directly, though. razz

Games are goal-oriented by nature. Goals necessitate challenge, or investment of another form - if you've already reached it, it's no longer a goal. Should I presume you're asserting that there should be another form of acceptable investment, apart from challenge?
Is levelling up not investment?

If there's no challenge to it? How would it be?

All I can gather is that you mean to say the time invested in the game should eliminate the need for challenge-based investment; but without a challenge, time investment is just a matter of staring at the screen for a period of time. I suppose that does fulfill the technical requirements for a "goal", but largely misses out on the entertainment expected from a "game".

And, again, this really sounds much more like a movie, or a book, than a game. Surely I'm missing something? redface
Not intending to be rude, but I think this is the clearest way to get my stance across.

Who are you to say what I am to consider entertaining? Maybe I like staring at the screen for periods of time.
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

Valheita
Not intending to be rude, but I think this is the clearest way to get my stance across.

Who are you to say what I am to consider entertaining? Maybe I like staring at the screen for periods of time.

You'd have a much harder time convincing me you were trying to be rude, I think; I'm sure I'd never believe you. wink

In that case, books and movies sound much more like your cup-of-tea. And staring contests, perhaps - but those can be mighty challenging. sweatdrop

What seems to be evading me is what you're hoping to get out of a 'game' that involves staring at a screen and (presumably) being rewarded at various intervals. Sounds rather like the Cash Tree feature, actually; but again, no-one considers that a game... whee
Valheita's avatar

Vicious Nerd

10,600 Points
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Red Kutai
Valheita
Not intending to be rude, but I think this is the clearest way to get my stance across.

Who are you to say what I am to consider entertaining? Maybe I like staring at the screen for periods of time.

You'd have a much harder time convincing me you were trying to be rude, I think; I'm sure I'd never believe you. wink

In that case, books and movies sound much more like your cup-of-tea. And staring contests, perhaps - but those can be mighty challenging. sweatdrop

What seems to be evading me is what you're hoping to get out of a 'game' that involves staring at a screen and (presumably) being rewarded at various intervals. Sounds rather like the Cash Tree feature, actually; but again, no-one considers that a game... whee
Enjoyment.

Consider Oblivion. There's nothing I like better than hunting down and enchanting me a sword that cuts my enemies down in a single hit. But that is, by your gross oversimplification, simply staring at the screen.

Actually, I'd go so far as to suggest that the vast majority of Role-Playing games favour the investment over challenge model.
Red Kutai's avatar

Benevolent Codger

Valheita
Red Kutai
Valheita
Not intending to be rude, but I think this is the clearest way to get my stance across.

Who are you to say what I am to consider entertaining? Maybe I like staring at the screen for periods of time.

You'd have a much harder time convincing me you were trying to be rude, I think; I'm sure I'd never believe you. wink

In that case, books and movies sound much more like your cup-of-tea. And staring contests, perhaps - but those can be mighty challenging. sweatdrop

What seems to be evading me is what you're hoping to get out of a 'game' that involves staring at a screen and (presumably) being rewarded at various intervals. Sounds rather like the Cash Tree feature, actually; but again, no-one considers that a game... whee
Enjoyment.

Consider Oblivion. There's nothing I like better than hunting down and enchanting me a sword that cuts my enemies down in a single hit. But that is, by your gross oversimplification, simply staring at the screen.

Actually, I'd go so far as to suggest that the vast majority of Role-Playing games favour the investment over challenge model.

I do understand a little better what you're getting at, I think - we've had conversations on difficulty before, and I've told you that I'm the sort of player who overlevels in traditional RPGs; that I value the flow of the game, more than the drama of intense battles. In essence, I don't mind breezing through battles because... Well, being too strong for my own good is the kind of expression that appeals to me. redface

And I do walk through zOMG! at CL 10.0 from time to time, to do just that. whee

I suppose it is entirely arguable, in that regard, that area CL caps for instances aren't necessary; in fact, I might agree that it would be perfectly reasonable to remove those caps, on 'Easy' mode if nothing else - or perhaps a 'Free' mode that allows unscaled play at any level? I'd argue it's fair to restrict the 'Free' mode on certain areas - Chapter Ends, for instance - until after they're completed once by-challenge, since those areas were obviously built with a true level cap in mind; but given that, I can't say I'd particularly mind the option, myself. 3nodding

Apologies if I was being dense; do I sound a trifle more reasonable, now? sweatdrop

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