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Lucienfer's avatar

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curtneko
if you aren't trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash, then what is your point? you're trying to argue viability of the ring, and when people prove you wrong you resort to "i meant only the 4 rings i consider to be aoe" which ruins the whole point of arguing viability in the first place

saying i'm not reading the thread or trying to start a fight doesn't make me any less correct! you obviously hold something against me considering you believe i'm "trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads" which likely stems from leasfy's thread and our skype conversation, so perhaps you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels 3nodding


i was trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash? quote me of the instance that i have ever said that. you know, you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels.

because that's the truth? because the way i ranked dervish was according to the 4 AoEs that i consider are from the same category.

and curt, narcissistic much? stop living in that fantasy where everyone has some emotional attachment to you, i wouldn't be so lifeless as to hold something against you. as i have said earlier, why should i bother having such insignificant and pathetic attachment to something online when i have plenty to do in real life? i don't sit in my room contemplating about what you have said or what you have done.

either way, the reason i said you were trying to instigate an argument was from the way you posted and also from the content of your post. if you weren't trying to (albeit the very obvious attempt), then fine. drop it.

ps: and my point? go read my first post if you are clueless about what i was trying to achieve with this thread. the fact that you don't even know what this thread was about just shows how desperate you were trying to nitpick whatever i say instead of actually coming up with intellectual ideas and opinions to banter.
Leasfy's avatar

Rogue

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I read my (user)name somewhere


ps. cannot sleep ok! don't yell at me U_ U
B14222354's avatar

Aged Sailor

I'd rather bring fire rain over dervish, tbh.

I just hate it's knockback, haven't used dervish for years now.
ryry Kenny_McGroot ryry's avatar

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Mage The Red
I think it's an excellent ring, but the Knockback is the only reason I'd be against it. Especially with newbies that don't quite understand KB too well.

this.

not many people are as good as us.
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

Requin Tiburon
curtneko
if you aren't trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash, then what is your point? you're trying to argue viability of the ring, and when people prove you wrong you resort to "i meant only the 4 rings i consider to be aoe" which ruins the whole point of arguing viability in the first place

saying i'm not reading the thread or trying to start a fight doesn't make me any less correct! you obviously hold something against me considering you believe i'm "trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads" which likely stems from leasfy's thread and our skype conversation, so perhaps you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels 3nodding


i was trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash? quote me of the instance that i have ever said that. you know, you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels.

because that's the truth? because the way i ranked dervish was according to the 4 AoEs that i consider are from the same category.

and curt, narcissistic much? stop living in that fantasy where everyone has some emotional attachment to you, i wouldn't be so lifeless as to hold something against you. as i have said earlier, why should i bother having such insignificant and pathetic attachment to something online when i have plenty to do in real life? i don't sit in my room contemplating about what you have said or what you have done.

either way, the reason i said you were trying to instigate an argument was from the way you posted and also from the content of your post. if you weren't trying to (albeit the very obvious attempt), then fine. drop it.

ps: and my point? go read my first post if you are clueless about what i was trying to achieve with this thread. the fact that you don't even know what this thread was about just shows how desperate you were trying to nitpick whatever i say instead of actually coming up with intellectual ideas and opinions to banter.
again i ask what point are you trying to make if not dervish being superior to slash, as that would be required for dervish to be viable for smob whatsoever

no matter how you decide to exclude slash for not being a "true aoe", it does more aoe damage per hit and per second than dervish regardless of dervish hitting more

how was me saying
Quote:
hold the phone, a true aoe?? slash hits multiple targets in an area of effect, exactly what makes any ring aoe
anything other than questioning and correcting your questionable and unnecessary grouping (aoe is aoe regardless if it's full circle or not), the only way i could possibly instigate anything is if you can't accept people disagreeing with you and proving you wrong

the "logical reasoning" behind players choosing to "berate the usefulness" of dervish is that slash and fire rain are superior to it (both as rings and together) for what people want to achieve in smob (don't forget that knockback which works against the aforementioned rings!), you pointlessly excluding slash from being an aoe (thus giving dervish a speed advantage over fire rain) doesn't make slash not exist nor does it make dervish better
Omnileech's avatar

Omnipresent Warlord

Dervish when tanking Green Rooms though? Loads of fun to use on bats.
curtneko
Requin Tiburon
curtneko
if you aren't trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash, then what is your point? you're trying to argue viability of the ring, and when people prove you wrong you resort to "i meant only the 4 rings i consider to be aoe" which ruins the whole point of arguing viability in the first place

saying i'm not reading the thread or trying to start a fight doesn't make me any less correct! you obviously hold something against me considering you believe i'm "trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads" which likely stems from leasfy's thread and our skype conversation, so perhaps you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels 3nodding


i was trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash? quote me of the instance that i have ever said that. you know, you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels.

because that's the truth? because the way i ranked dervish was according to the 4 AoEs that i consider are from the same category.

and curt, narcissistic much? stop living in that fantasy where everyone has some emotional attachment to you, i wouldn't be so lifeless as to hold something against you. as i have said earlier, why should i bother having such insignificant and pathetic attachment to something online when i have plenty to do in real life? i don't sit in my room contemplating about what you have said or what you have done.

either way, the reason i said you were trying to instigate an argument was from the way you posted and also from the content of your post. if you weren't trying to (albeit the very obvious attempt), then fine. drop it.

ps: and my point? go read my first post if you are clueless about what i was trying to achieve with this thread. the fact that you don't even know what this thread was about just shows how desperate you were trying to nitpick whatever i say instead of actually coming up with intellectual ideas and opinions to banter.
again i ask what point are you trying to make if not dervish being superior to slash, as that would be required for dervish to be viable for smob whatsoever

no matter how you decide to exclude slash for not being a "true aoe", it does more aoe damage per hit and per second than dervish regardless of dervish hitting more

how was me saying
Quote:
hold the phone, a true aoe?? slash hits multiple targets in an area of effect, exactly what makes any ring aoe
anything other than questioning and correcting your questionable and unnecessary grouping (aoe is aoe regardless if it's full circle or not), the only way i could possibly instigate anything is if you can't accept people disagreeing with you and proving you wrong

the "logical reasoning" behind players choosing to "berate the usefulness" of dervish is that slash and fire rain are superior to it (both as rings and together) for what people want to achieve in smob (don't forget that knockback which works against the aforementioned rings!), you pointlessly excluding slash from being an aoe (thus giving dervish a speed advantage over fire rain) doesn't make slash not exist nor does it make dervish better


hey dude, how bout you calm down instead of getting your panties in a bunch and making a fool of yourself?

i personally don't give a damn about dervish and true AoEs or whatnot, but your attitude really sucks. requin was trying his best to explain his point of view, and i can guess from your posts that you didn't even bother reading what he wrote and chose to continue on with your ignorance. so let me make this clear to you, he was just saying that in his opinion, slash and dervish can't be compared as the same category because they are different in AoE. he didn't reject slash as an AoE in general, and i don't see him saying anything about excluding slash from a smob ringset. in fact, he mentioned so many times that slash is a good ring.

Requin Tiburon

either way, my staple set for smob if crewed with randoms are:
2-3AoEs(fire rain/heavy water balloon/dervish), slash, 1 extra attack (depending on whether it's 2 or 3 AoEs taken), wish, meat, 2 buffs.


and also, in case you missed it, this is what omni said.
Omnileech
I don't consider Slash to be a true AoE because you have to use it at r3-r4 to have a large enough AoE to hit most of the enemies around you. It's still a great and versatile ring, but if you have to rage it to work well... well it's not that much of an AoE. You might as well consider Guns, Shuriken, Hot Foot to be AoE rings as well because they hit multiple targets when raged. Slash can hit more than 1 target at r1 ... but the area is very small.
Dalia Royce's avatar

Buggy Glitch

Appears that Dervish is too insecure to shine on its own merits if big old nasty Slash is overshadowing it with its Slashiness. Just label Slash out of the argument as a non-true AoE or else it just takes away the attention from the others. Reminds me of this story.
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

H 3 6 R T
curtneko
Requin Tiburon
curtneko
if you aren't trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash, then what is your point? you're trying to argue viability of the ring, and when people prove you wrong you resort to "i meant only the 4 rings i consider to be aoe" which ruins the whole point of arguing viability in the first place

saying i'm not reading the thread or trying to start a fight doesn't make me any less correct! you obviously hold something against me considering you believe i'm "trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads" which likely stems from leasfy's thread and our skype conversation, so perhaps you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels 3nodding


i was trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash? quote me of the instance that i have ever said that. you know, you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels.

because that's the truth? because the way i ranked dervish was according to the 4 AoEs that i consider are from the same category.

and curt, narcissistic much? stop living in that fantasy where everyone has some emotional attachment to you, i wouldn't be so lifeless as to hold something against you. as i have said earlier, why should i bother having such insignificant and pathetic attachment to something online when i have plenty to do in real life? i don't sit in my room contemplating about what you have said or what you have done.

either way, the reason i said you were trying to instigate an argument was from the way you posted and also from the content of your post. if you weren't trying to (albeit the very obvious attempt), then fine. drop it.

ps: and my point? go read my first post if you are clueless about what i was trying to achieve with this thread. the fact that you don't even know what this thread was about just shows how desperate you were trying to nitpick whatever i say instead of actually coming up with intellectual ideas and opinions to banter.
again i ask what point are you trying to make if not dervish being superior to slash, as that would be required for dervish to be viable for smob whatsoever

no matter how you decide to exclude slash for not being a "true aoe", it does more aoe damage per hit and per second than dervish regardless of dervish hitting more

how was me saying
Quote:
hold the phone, a true aoe?? slash hits multiple targets in an area of effect, exactly what makes any ring aoe
anything other than questioning and correcting your questionable and unnecessary grouping (aoe is aoe regardless if it's full circle or not), the only way i could possibly instigate anything is if you can't accept people disagreeing with you and proving you wrong

the "logical reasoning" behind players choosing to "berate the usefulness" of dervish is that slash and fire rain are superior to it (both as rings and together) for what people want to achieve in smob (don't forget that knockback which works against the aforementioned rings!), you pointlessly excluding slash from being an aoe (thus giving dervish a speed advantage over fire rain) doesn't make slash not exist nor does it make dervish better


hey dude, how bout you calm down instead of getting your panties in a bunch and making a fool of yourself?

i personally don't give a damn about dervish and true AoEs or whatnot, but your attitude really sucks. requin was trying his best to explain his point of view, and i can guess from your posts that you didn't even bother reading what he wrote and chose to continue on with your ignorance. so let me make this clear to you, he was just saying that in his opinion, slash and dervish can't be compared as the same category because they are different in AoE. he didn't reject slash as an AoE in general, and i don't see him saying anything about excluding slash from a smob ringset. in fact, he mentioned so many times that slash is a good ring.

Requin Tiburon

either way, my staple set for smob if crewed with randoms are:
2-3AoEs(fire rain/heavy water balloon/dervish), slash, 1 extra attack (depending on whether it's 2 or 3 AoEs taken), wish, meat, 2 buffs.


and also, in case you missed it, this is what omni said.
Omnileech
I don't consider Slash to be a true AoE because you have to use it at r3-r4 to have a large enough AoE to hit most of the enemies around you. It's still a great and versatile ring, but if you have to rage it to work well... well it's not that much of an AoE. You might as well consider Guns, Shuriken, Hot Foot to be AoE rings as well because they hit multiple targets when raged. Slash can hit more than 1 target at r1 ... but the area is very small.
i'm not "getting my panties in a bunch" nor am i showing attitude, i'm simply disagreeing with requin and explaining how his argument for dervish's viability doesn't work (quoting omni doesn't change that either)

i'd say requin is the one "getting his panties in a bunch" and showing attitude if he resorts to labelling me as an instigator solely because i questioned and corrected him (and continue to do so)

don't post an open discussion if you can't handle the possibility of people questioning and correcting you!
curtneko
i'm not "getting my panties in a bunch" nor am i showing attitude, i'm simply disagreeing with requin and explaining how his argument for dervish's viability doesn't work (quoting omni doesn't change that either)

i'd say requin is the one "getting his panties in a bunch" and showing attitude if he resorts to labelling me as an instigator solely because i questioned and corrected him (and continue to do so)

don't post an open discussion if you can't handle the possibility of people questioning and correcting you!


from what i can observe, requin doesn't seem to reject questioning nor correction. i can understand his logic, and his discussion with myrielle was purely him trying to explain himself rather than actually getting defensive over his opinions.

curtneko
don't post an open discussion if you can't handle the possibility of people questioning and correcting you!


how bout you take your own advice? because you seem to be the one who's getting all defensive over a simple slash ring.
strapping young man's avatar

Summery Noob

Where do you fit Dervish into your ring set?
My smob set is usually:
Wish / Hack / Mantis / Slash / Fire Rain / 2 buffs / Meat

Are you suggesting that a full crew with all 6 people bringing Dervish would be faster?

Spamming the knockback from Dervish on mobs and constantly having to position yourself to spread out mobs even more making AoE less effective doesn't seem like it would make things go faster.
sweatdrop
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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strapping young man
Where do you fit Dervish into your ring set?
My smob set is usually:
Wish / Hack / Mantis / Slash / Fire Rain / 2 buffs / Meat

Are you suggesting that a full crew with all 6 people bringing Dervish would be faster?

Spamming the knockback from Dervish on mobs and constantly having to position yourself to spread out mobs even more making AoE less effective doesn't seem like it would make things go faster.
sweatdrop

well, mantis could be switched to either hwb or dervish in my opinion.

and im suggesting that people shouldn't downplay dervish by calling it a ''noob ring''. i have tried and tested it countless times, the knockback effect from r1 dervish isn't that significant, and usually wouldn't do something as drastic as making the crew's AoE miss. it takes more technique to actually position yourself properly in accordance to your knockback, eg: knockback mobs to a corner etc.

so back to your question of full crew of dervish. no. i don't recommend that. mostly because a lot of players don't know how to position themselves and take advantage of knockbacks properly.

what i do recommend is for players to stop downplaying dervish. it's an awesome ring. that's all.
Requin Tiburon
Kaniskion
Myrielle's post pretty much seals this discussion. You don't use dervish because it's inferior to better aoes in every way. rolleyes Dervish may not have significant knockback at rr1 but it gets pretty significant at higher rage ranks which means you'll have to restrict its use which makes it useless as your primary aoe i.e firerain is meant to be spammed at higher rage ranks.


i have never promoted the use of dervish as primary AoE. and i have never downplayed the use of other AoE rings in smob, except for hornet nest.

please, do read the thread before posting. i have said that dervish should be used as a secondary AoE to complement the damage of a primary AoE. which means, for example, r4 fire rain > spam dervish, slash, heavy water balloon > r4 fire rain when you have the rage.


Whoa, whoa. This isn't ps where all the enemies gather at one precise spot. There are often many lurers and this can lead to the animated being spread out. Which is why slash is a better option. As it works good as both an aoe and a single target ring. pirate
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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Kaniskion

Whoa, whoa. This isn't ps where all the enemies gather at one precise spot. There are often many lurers and this can lead to the animated being spread out. Which is why slash is a better option. As it works good as both an aoe and a single target ring. pirate


...you obviously don't have much experience in smob at all, do you? when the lures in smob are spread out, get your crew huddled together and use r4 wish to aggro and gather them to one point. problem solved. if the mobs are constantly spread out during your run, it's due to incompetency.

i don't deny that slash is better than dervish in certain criteria, but so are a few other rings. and it doesn't mean you can't incorporate dervish into your ring set just because you already have fire rain and slash.

again, i can't stress this enough. the purpose of this thread isn't to advocate dervish as the best ring, neither was it to impose the use of dervish in smob. i was just merely standing up for an awesome ring that doesn't deserve such berating or downplay.

ps: it's kinda pathetic when you actually put some thought into it. it's as if i'm trying to help a beggar because he is being bullied by the passers-by, but instead of asking me ''why should we help the beggar?'', what you are doing now is like saying, ''hey, that aristocrat has more money than the beggar''. do you get my point? please, i know what slash does and is capable of doing. i don't need a bunch of greenhorns explaining it to me in detail. just want to stand up for dervish, it's not that bad of a ring as many players presume.

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