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Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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Kaniskion
Myrielle's post pretty much seals this discussion. You don't use dervish because it's inferior to better aoes in every way. rolleyes Dervish may not have significant knockback at rr1 but it gets pretty significant at higher rage ranks which means you'll have to restrict its use which makes it useless as your primary aoe i.e firerain is meant to be spammed at higher rage ranks.


i have never promoted the use of dervish as primary AoE. and i have never downplayed the use of other AoE rings in smob, except for hornet nest.

please, do read the thread before posting. i have said that dervish should be used as a secondary AoE to complement the damage of a primary AoE. which means, for example, r4 fire rain > spam dervish, slash, heavy water balloon > r4 fire rain when you have the rage.
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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curtneko
i don't quite understand how i'm taking it out of context (though i am trying to instigate something, discussion)

you're trying to argue dervish's viability, so myrielle tells you like it is (that slash is superior in both damage per hit and per second) and you try to refute data by saying "slash isn't a true aoe"

dervish isn't viable because fire rain and slash exist and zomg has balancing issues, there's nothing more to dispute

get over your grudge btw, leasfy wouldn't appreciate you being rude to her friend


i have never said that dervish is superior than slash, i did admit that slash is superior to dervish in some criteria, but not it's AoE. i merely stated that slash isn't a 'true' AoE because of it's smaller AoE compared to 'true' AoEs, which are fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon and hornet nest. i have never said that slash is an inferior ring compared to dervish because of it's smaller AoE, i just simply stated a fact.

please do read the posts properly before you get so desperate in trying to find fault in my statements. i stated that dervish has the best DpS among AoEs, and that it has the second highest DpH among AoEs. while i was making that statement, i was referring to the 4 AoEs that fitted my criteria of 'true' AoEs, i didn't account for slash since it has a smaller AoE. and i was plainly telling myrielle my definition for true AoE.

i can't stress this enough. stop trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads, if you want to do that, at least have the common sense of actually reading the thread through before making yourself look like a fool.

i bear no grudge. this is the internet, why would i harbor such insignificant feelings for insignificant people? bear in mind that you were the one who started posting nonsense in my thread, it wasn't me who deliberately try to seek you out.
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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Erynne
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bear in mind that i have never advocated the use of dervish as your sole or primary AoE ring in your smob set, neither have i advocated the use of rr4 dervish. just merely stated that it is a useful secondary or even tertiary AoE ring in smob to help speed up the run.
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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i simply can't understand how standing up for the usefulness of one ring would end up in such a mess.

i stand firm in my belief that dervish doesn't deserve all the hate that it has been receiving, it can stand it's own among other AoE rings. end of story. nothing more, i never said anything about dervish being better than some rings. nor did i deny the presence of knockback when using dervish, but really, i have tested this time and time again, rr1 dervish doesn't do as much knockback as one may presume. and that insignificant knockback derived from dervish is just an insignificant bane when stacked against it's boon.
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Bloodthirsty Demon

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7Near7
So I get where you're coming from. I used to have that mindset too. Dervish is just not effective as a DPS ring. It's just not quite as efficient. Even if you know how to handle your avatar placement and manage your knockback well. The effort put into using the ring just doesn't pay off. A lot of rings just don't get endorsement because quite frankly there's the mainstream rings that get the job done a lot more efficiently. Though slash does not maintain the overall area of effect that dervish or any of these other "true aoes" it does maintain a much higher DPS at any rate and proves more useful to the crew since it doesn't hindrance anyone when in use. Using it for a smob set would be like taking Shark to a GR crew or Kam.
Don't be dissing muh Shark attack. Pirate set, yo~ emotion_donotwant
I don't see how you can say you didn't diss Slash when you don't even consider it a true AoE. That's dissing. That's mean. You've successfully made me hate Dervish. scream

It's now under MY definition of a TRUE crappy ring and completely earned its bad rep and should be perpetuated. dramallama cheese_whine burning_eyes
twilightreaperX's avatar

Lucky Fatcat

Requin Tiburon
i simply can't understand how standing up for the usefulness of one ring would end up in such a mess.

i stand firm in my belief that dervish doesn't deserve all the hate that it has been receiving, it can stand it's own among other AoE rings. end of story. nothing more, i never said anything about dervish being better than some rings. nor did i deny the presence of knockback when using dervish, but really, i have tested this time and time again, rr1 dervish doesn't do as much knockback as one may presume. and that insignificant knockback derived from dervish is just an insignificant bane when stacked against it's boon.

what would be your preferred ring set to smob with if you included dervish?
Requin Tiburon


1 dervish, while somewhat insignificant, can cause a rr1 fire rain to miss from my experience. This is at any place where mobs will be knocked back by dervish really~

6 dervishes does become very significant though. To the point it would push a group of mobs out of range of other attacks, and thus making your other AoE rings less efficient~

I am assuming that group members stay fairly close to each other. Ideally, "G" keyed on top of each other. I also assume that mobs would not move back into proper range of your attacks, and that the entire mob is in proper range of being hit by attacks in the first place. I do not know what would happen if they are pushed out far enough and/or can be pushed out far enough for them to move closer again on their own~

I know moving your character can reposition a mob/group to all be within range (if the mob/group is chasing you)... though it usually didn't get all of them whenever I tried in smob and various other places~
Whispers of Delusion's avatar

Magic Pumpkin

Requin Tiburon


i'm not disclaiming slash as an AoE, ok? i just don't see it as a 'true' AoE because the area it hits is just a lot smaller when compared to other 'true' AoEs, (fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon, hornet nest)

If you R1 fire rain in DMS you won't hit more than 2 animated either because they're too spread out.
And if you R1 hornets/water balloon you won't hit more than 2-3 animated.

If you go into GR and R4 slash on a (few) cluster(s) of bats, I guarantee you you will hit most if not all of them.

Tell me what's not 'true' AoE about this?

You probably just mean fire rain and dervish because it hits the area around you wether there are animated or not.
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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Whispers of Delusion
Requin Tiburon


i'm not disclaiming slash as an AoE, ok? i just don't see it as a 'true' AoE because the area it hits is just a lot smaller when compared to other 'true' AoEs, (fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon, hornet nest)

If you R1 fire rain in DMS you won't hit more than 2 animated either because they're too spread out.
And if you R1 hornets/water balloon you won't hit more than 2-3 animated.

If you go into GR and R4 slash on a (few) cluster(s) of bats, I guarantee you you will hit most if not all of them.

Tell me what's not 'true' AoE about this?

You probably just mean fire rain and dervish because it hits the area around you wether there are animated or not.


first off, we are talking bout smob, not gr. you position yourself differently in both situations.

and you must be kidding me right? the best you can come up is a comparison of r1 fire rain, heavy water balloon, hornet nest against a r4 slash?? emotion_facepalm
Whispers of Delusion's avatar

Magic Pumpkin

Requin Tiburon
Whispers of Delusion
Requin Tiburon


i'm not disclaiming slash as an AoE, ok? i just don't see it as a 'true' AoE because the area it hits is just a lot smaller when compared to other 'true' AoEs, (fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon, hornet nest)

If you R1 fire rain in DMS you won't hit more than 2 animated either because they're too spread out.
And if you R1 hornets/water balloon you won't hit more than 2-3 animated.

If you go into GR and R4 slash on a (few) cluster(s) of bats, I guarantee you you will hit most if not all of them.

Tell me what's not 'true' AoE about this?

You probably just mean fire rain and dervish because it hits the area around you wether there are animated or not.


first off, we are talking bout smob, not gr. you position yourself differently in both situations.

and you must be kidding me right? the best you can come up is a comparison of r1 fire rain, heavy water balloon, hornet nest against a r4 slash?? emotion_facepalm


No, that's why I left space open. I am telling you how much an R4 slash can hit.
I didn't quote for the smob, I quoted for the fact that you called Slash a "fake" AoE.
It doesn't suddenly change what it is because of the instance. It's both AoE in GR and Smob.
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

Requin Tiburon
curtneko
i don't quite understand how i'm taking it out of context (though i am trying to instigate something, discussion)

you're trying to argue dervish's viability, so myrielle tells you like it is (that slash is superior in both damage per hit and per second) and you try to refute data by saying "slash isn't a true aoe"

dervish isn't viable because fire rain and slash exist and zomg has balancing issues, there's nothing more to dispute

get over your grudge btw, leasfy wouldn't appreciate you being rude to her friend


i have never said that dervish is superior than slash, i did admit that slash is superior to dervish in some criteria, but not it's AoE. i merely stated that slash isn't a 'true' AoE because of it's smaller AoE compared to 'true' AoEs, which are fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon and hornet nest. i have never said that slash is an inferior ring compared to dervish because of it's smaller AoE, i just simply stated a fact.

please do read the posts properly before you get so desperate in trying to find fault in my statements. i stated that dervish has the best DpS among AoEs, and that it has the second highest DpH among AoEs. while i was making that statement, i was referring to the 4 AoEs that fitted my criteria of 'true' AoEs, i didn't account for slash since it has a smaller AoE. and i was plainly telling myrielle my definition for true AoE.

i can't stress this enough. stop trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads, if you want to do that, at least have the common sense of actually reading the thread through before making yourself look like a fool.

i bear no grudge. this is the internet, why would i harbor such insignificant feelings for insignificant people? bear in mind that you were the one who started posting nonsense in my thread, it wasn't me who deliberately try to seek you out.
if you aren't trying to argue that dervish is superior to slash, then what is your point? you're trying to argue viability of the ring, and when people prove you wrong you resort to "i meant only the 4 rings i consider to be aoe" which ruins the whole point of arguing viability in the first place

saying i'm not reading the thread or trying to start a fight doesn't make me any less correct! you obviously hold something against me considering you believe i'm "trying so desperately to harass or instigate an argument in threads" which likely stems from leasfy's thread and our skype conversation, so perhaps you should put factual evidence ahead of personal quarrels 3nodding
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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twilightreaperX

what would be your preferred ring set to smob with if you included dervish?

preferred ring set would depend on the crew. are they a crew of people whom you trust that can heal you properly? are they just randoms?
either way, my staple set for smob if crewed with randoms are:
2-3AoEs(fire rain/heavy water balloon/dervish), slash, 1 extra attack (depending on whether it's 2 or 3 AoEs taken), wish, meat, 2 buffs.
Lucienfer's avatar

Perfect Slayer

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Whispers of Delusion
Requin Tiburon
Whispers of Delusion
Requin Tiburon


i'm not disclaiming slash as an AoE, ok? i just don't see it as a 'true' AoE because the area it hits is just a lot smaller when compared to other 'true' AoEs, (fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon, hornet nest)

If you R1 fire rain in DMS you won't hit more than 2 animated either because they're too spread out.
And if you R1 hornets/water balloon you won't hit more than 2-3 animated.

If you go into GR and R4 slash on a (few) cluster(s) of bats, I guarantee you you will hit most if not all of them.

Tell me what's not 'true' AoE about this?

You probably just mean fire rain and dervish because it hits the area around you wether there are animated or not.


first off, we are talking bout smob, not gr. you position yourself differently in both situations.

and you must be kidding me right? the best you can come up is a comparison of r1 fire rain, heavy water balloon, hornet nest against a r4 slash?? emotion_facepalm


No, that's why I left space open. I am telling you how much an R4 slash can hit.
I didn't quote for the smob, I quoted for the fact that you called Slash a "fake" AoE.
It doesn't suddenly change what it is because of the instance. It's both AoE in GR and Smob.


emotion_facepalm emotion_facepalm emotion_facepalm
miss, quote me please. when did i ever say that slash is a fake AoE? i merely stated that in my opinion, slash doesn't fit into the criteria of true AoE because of it's smaller area of attack. quote me saying that slash isn't an AoE. go ahead. if you can't, then i suggest you to stop posting nonsense or at least have the common sense to read the other posts before you do.

but hey, i'll be a nice guy and explain to you all over again to save you the trouble from actually reading the other posts in a thread like a normal person would do. the sole reason i said slash wasn't a 'true' AoE is because i was trying to explain to myrielle how i rated dervish ring against other AoE rings, and i didn't take slash into account because i don't think of it as a true AoE. is that clear enough for you, miss?

now, these categorizing of AoEs were just my opinion. if you can see it the way i see it after i tried to explain to you my logic, then fine. but if whatever i said sounded stupid to you, you are welcome to take your attention elsewhere and stop posting nonsense on my thread.
Omnileech's avatar

Omnipresent Warlord

I don't consider Slash to be a true AoE because you have to use it at r3-r4 to have a large enough AoE to hit most of the enemies around you. It's still a great and versatile ring, but if you have to rage it to work well... well it's not that much of an AoE. You might as well consider Guns, Shuriken, Hot Foot to be AoE rings as well because they hit multiple targets when raged. Slash can hit more than 1 target at r1 ... but the area is very small.

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