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Lucielfer's avatar

Destructive Warlord

I've seen many players berate the usefulness of this ring without any logical reasoning.

let's list out the pros and cons of this ring.

pros:
- Highest Damage per Second of all AoE rings.
- Second highest Damage per Hit of all AoE rings.

cons:
- attracts a lot of aggro. this is debatable, since fire rain/wish could easily out aggro whore dervish.
- push back. though honestly, the effects of the push back isn't significant at all at rr1.

basically, the trick to using dervish is the same as using diagnose or fire rain. it doesn't move you to the target, instead, it just attacks the mobs around you. so to use it properly, you would have to position yourself in a group of mobs before attacking (which is considered a very simple task, considering the large amount of mobs that surround you and the crew in smob, as well as the fact that crews tend to stick together in a tight bunch in smob.), instead of mindlessly spamming attack keys, even a monkey can be trained to spam keys.

in my opinion, spamming rage rank 1 dervish in smob while positioned properly quickens the run by a significant amount of time, it's spammable, it hits hard, it hits a lot of mobs. what more can you ask for? so before you undermine this ring and label it as a 'noob ring', try it out first instead of blindly following other player's 'advice'. please don't undermine the potential of an awesome attack ring just because of your own incompetency of using it to it's fullest.
Myrielle's avatar

Perfect Saint

If people were to dispute your claims, they'll probably use this guide. It's the product of many man hours of painstaking labor made by...by...zOMG scientists.

Z!F's Guide to Rings, Sets and GHI.

I would like to see how you came into the conclusions of the pros for this ring just for comparison's sake.

]Damage per Hit

1. Hack
2. Fire Rain
3. Shark Attack
4. Bump
5. Slash
6. Mantis
7. Dervish
8. Heavy Water Balloon
9. Hot Foot
10. Solar Rays
11. Guns Guns Guns
12. Shuriken
13. Hornet's Nest
14. Hunter's Bow

---

Damage per Second

1. Hack
2. Mantis
3. Slash
4. Bump
5. Shuriken
6. Guns Guns Guns
7. Hot Foot
8. Solar Rays
9. Hunter's Bow
10. Shark Attack
11. Dervish

12. Heavy Water Balloon
13. Fire Rain
14. Hornet's Nest

You can see that the results of the studies doesn't put dervish into such an exalted state as you did.

I did use Dervish in SS runs in the past. While I liked the ease of use, I didn't find it so efficient unless I raged it and that really disrupts the mobbing people were trying to achieve. I actually stepped down to use Heavy Water Balloon because I get to use a ranged weapon with an AoE. Yes, it's weaker and stamina-heavy, but I just like ranged weapons. As for my AoE staple, I'd myself a fully raged Slash. I like Fire Rain too, but it doesn't like me so much. I keep crapping out on the timing and range since I turn off animations.

Besides, the Dervish I remember was that monster from 2008. That thing's power was obscene so they had to nerf it in typical fashion. It was part of that Jonin-level ninja set of that time.
Lucielfer's avatar

Destructive Warlord

Myrielle
I people were to dispute your claims, they'll probably use this guide. It's the product of many man hours of painstaking labor made by...by...zOMG scientists.

Z!F's Guide to Rings, Sets and GHI.

I would like to see how you came into the conclusions of the pros for this ring just for comparison's sake.

]Damage per Hit

1. Hack
2. Fire Rain
3. Shark Attack
4. Bump
5. Slash
6. Mantis
7. Dervish
8. Heavy Water Balloon
9. Hot Foot
10. Solar Rays
11. Guns Guns Guns
12. Shuriken
13. Hornet's Nest
14. Hunter's Bow

---

Damage per Second

1. Hack
2. Mantis
3. Slash
4. Bump
5. Shuriken
6. Guns Guns Guns
7. Hot Foot
8. Solar Rays
9. Hunter's Bow
10. Shark Attack
11. Dervish

12. Heavy Water Balloon
13. Fire Rain
14. Hornet's Nest

You can see that the results of the studies doesn't put dervish into such an exalted state as you did.

I did use Dervish in SS runs in the past. While I liked the ease of use, I didn't find it so efficient unless I raged it and that really disrupts the mobbing people were trying to achieve. I actually stepped down to use Heavy Water Balloon because I get to use a ranged weapon with an AoE. Yes, it's weaker and stamina-heavy, but I just like ranged weapons. As for my AoE staple, I'd myself a fully raged Slash. I like Fire Rain too, but it doesn't like me so much. I keep crapping out on the timing and range since I turn off animations.

Besides, the Dervish I remember was that monster from 2008. That thing's power was obscene so they had to nerf it in typical fashion. It was part of that Jonin-level ninja set of that time.


well, in my opinion, slash is not counted as a true AoE ring, well, not in the same sense of true AoEs such as fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon and hornet's nest, all of which hits the surrounding mobs instead of hitting the mobs just in front of the user. another interesting note is that slash's AoE is only significant at rage rank 4, which is unlike true AoEs, which already covers a good area of mobs at rage rank 1.

i for one bring a staple of slash as my AoE for smeb while heavy water balloon for smob. i am not trying to promote dervish to be better than all AoEs, in fact, i usually couple my dervish with other AoEs to make it even more efficient (spamming r1 dervish while r4 hwb for example.) i was just merely stating that dervish doesn't deserve the berating it gets from so called 'smob regulars/pros'.
Mage The Red's avatar

Winged Mage

20,400 Points
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  • Alchemy Level 10 100
  • Battle: Level 10 250
I think it's an excellent ring, but the Knockback is the only reason I'd be against it. Especially with newbies that don't quite understand KB too well.
Myrielle's avatar

Perfect Saint

Requin Tiburon
Myrielle
I people were to dispute your claims, they'll probably use this guide. It's the product of many man hours of painstaking labor made by...by...zOMG scientists.

Z!F's Guide to Rings, Sets and GHI.

I would like to see how you came into the conclusions of the pros for this ring just for comparison's sake.

]Damage per Hit

1. Hack
2. Fire Rain
3. Shark Attack
4. Bump
5. Slash
6. Mantis
7. Dervish
8. Heavy Water Balloon
9. Hot Foot
10. Solar Rays
11. Guns Guns Guns
12. Shuriken
13. Hornet's Nest
14. Hunter's Bow

---

Damage per Second

1. Hack
2. Mantis
3. Slash
4. Bump
5. Shuriken
6. Guns Guns Guns
7. Hot Foot
8. Solar Rays
9. Hunter's Bow
10. Shark Attack
11. Dervish

12. Heavy Water Balloon
13. Fire Rain
14. Hornet's Nest

You can see that the results of the studies doesn't put dervish into such an exalted state as you did.

I did use Dervish in SS runs in the past. While I liked the ease of use, I didn't find it so efficient unless I raged it and that really disrupts the mobbing people were trying to achieve. I actually stepped down to use Heavy Water Balloon because I get to use a ranged weapon with an AoE. Yes, it's weaker and stamina-heavy, but I just like ranged weapons. As for my AoE staple, I'd myself a fully raged Slash. I like Fire Rain too, but it doesn't like me so much. I keep crapping out on the timing and range since I turn off animations.

Besides, the Dervish I remember was that monster from 2008. That thing's power was obscene so they had to nerf it in typical fashion. It was part of that Jonin-level ninja set of that time.


well, in my opinion, slash is not counted as a true AoE ring, well, not in the same sense of true AoEs such as fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon and hornet's nest, all of which hits the surrounding mobs instead of hitting the mobs just in front of the user. another interesting note is that slash's AoE is only significant at rage rank 4, which is unlike true AoEs, which already covers a good area of mobs at rage rank 1.

I for one bring a staple of slash as my AoE for smeb while heavy water balloon for smob. i am not trying to promote dervish to be better than all AoEs, in fact, i usually couple my dervish with other AoEs to make it even more efficient (spamming r1 dervish while r4 hwb for example.) i was just merely stating that dervish doesn't deserve the berating it gets from so called 'smob regulars/pros'.
It's a true AoE since you can hit multiple targets even at RR1 if positioned properly. Attacking mobs does bring this out easily enough. RR4 in the middle of a large mob is a sight to see.

Maybe Dervish is being lambasted because of over-hyping? ninja Seriously though, if you weren't intending to push Dervish above the other AoEs, selling it as the second this and highest that was probably not the correct method to go about it.

I guess it's my opinion as well, but Dervish is too much of a middle-child AoE. I could see why people prefer other rings to it when it comes to mobbing.
Lucielfer's avatar

Destructive Warlord

Myrielle
Requin Tiburon
Myrielle
I people were to dispute your claims, they'll probably use this guide. It's the product of many man hours of painstaking labor made by...by...zOMG scientists.

Z!F's Guide to Rings, Sets and GHI.

I would like to see how you came into the conclusions of the pros for this ring just for comparison's sake.

]Damage per Hit

1. Hack
2. Fire Rain
3. Shark Attack
4. Bump
5. Slash
6. Mantis
7. Dervish
8. Heavy Water Balloon
9. Hot Foot
10. Solar Rays
11. Guns Guns Guns
12. Shuriken
13. Hornet's Nest
14. Hunter's Bow

---

Damage per Second

1. Hack
2. Mantis
3. Slash
4. Bump
5. Shuriken
6. Guns Guns Guns
7. Hot Foot
8. Solar Rays
9. Hunter's Bow
10. Shark Attack
11. Dervish

12. Heavy Water Balloon
13. Fire Rain
14. Hornet's Nest

You can see that the results of the studies doesn't put dervish into such an exalted state as you did.

I did use Dervish in SS runs in the past. While I liked the ease of use, I didn't find it so efficient unless I raged it and that really disrupts the mobbing people were trying to achieve. I actually stepped down to use Heavy Water Balloon because I get to use a ranged weapon with an AoE. Yes, it's weaker and stamina-heavy, but I just like ranged weapons. As for my AoE staple, I'd myself a fully raged Slash. I like Fire Rain too, but it doesn't like me so much. I keep crapping out on the timing and range since I turn off animations.

Besides, the Dervish I remember was that monster from 2008. That thing's power was obscene so they had to nerf it in typical fashion. It was part of that Jonin-level ninja set of that time.


well, in my opinion, slash is not counted as a true AoE ring, well, not in the same sense of true AoEs such as fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon and hornet's nest, all of which hits the surrounding mobs instead of hitting the mobs just in front of the user. another interesting note is that slash's AoE is only significant at rage rank 4, which is unlike true AoEs, which already covers a good area of mobs at rage rank 1.

I for one bring a staple of slash as my AoE for smeb while heavy water balloon for smob. i am not trying to promote dervish to be better than all AoEs, in fact, i usually couple my dervish with other AoEs to make it even more efficient (spamming r1 dervish while r4 hwb for example.) i was just merely stating that dervish doesn't deserve the berating it gets from so called 'smob regulars/pros'.
It's a true AoE since you can hit multiple targets even at RR1 if positioned properly. Attacking mobs does bring this out easily enough. RR4 in the middle of a large mob is a sight to see.

Maybe Dervish is being lambasted because of over-hyping? ninja Seriously though, if you weren't intending to push Dervish above the other AoEs, selling it as the second this and highest that was probably not the correct method to go about it.

I guess it's my opinion as well, but Dervish is too much of a middle-child AoE. I could see why people prefer other rings to it when it comes to mobbing.


slash doesn't hit as many mobs as true AoEs that i have mentioned, especially when it is only at rage rank 1. i have slash in my ring slot 99% of the time, practically never take it off, and i can bet my gold on the fact that rr1 slash isn't comparable to rr1 dervish, no matter how you position yourself.

no offence, but how is merely stating it to be stronger than most AoE counts as 'pushing/promoting' the ring? neutral it's the truth, and as i have stated, it's a ring that doesn't deserve a 'noob ring' label. just depends on how experienced the player is at using the ring.

again, i'm just tired of so many zOMGers just undermining that one ring. heck i wouldn't give a flying phuck if they want to talk shet about hornet's nest, but to go ''omg, he has dervish, such a noob.'' is just emotion_facepalm .
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

Requin Tiburon
slash doesn't hit as many mobs as true AoEs
hold the phone, a true aoe?? slash hits multiple targets in an area of effect, exactly what makes any ring aoe
Myrielle's avatar

Perfect Saint

Requin Tiburon
Myrielle
Requin Tiburon
Myrielle
I people were to dispute your claims, they'll probably use this guide. It's the product of many man hours of painstaking labor made by...by...zOMG scientists.

Z!F's Guide to Rings, Sets and GHI.

I would like to see how you came into the conclusions of the pros for this ring just for comparison's sake.

]Damage per Hit

1. Hack
2. Fire Rain
3. Shark Attack
4. Bump
5. Slash
6. Mantis
7. Dervish
8. Heavy Water Balloon
9. Hot Foot
10. Solar Rays
11. Guns Guns Guns
12. Shuriken
13. Hornet's Nest
14. Hunter's Bow

---

Damage per Second

1. Hack
2. Mantis
3. Slash
4. Bump
5. Shuriken
6. Guns Guns Guns
7. Hot Foot
8. Solar Rays
9. Hunter's Bow
10. Shark Attack
11. Dervish

12. Heavy Water Balloon
13. Fire Rain
14. Hornet's Nest

You can see that the results of the studies doesn't put dervish into such an exalted state as you did.

I did use Dervish in SS runs in the past. While I liked the ease of use, I didn't find it so efficient unless I raged it and that really disrupts the mobbing people were trying to achieve. I actually stepped down to use Heavy Water Balloon because I get to use a ranged weapon with an AoE. Yes, it's weaker and stamina-heavy, but I just like ranged weapons. As for my AoE staple, I'd myself a fully raged Slash. I like Fire Rain too, but it doesn't like me so much. I keep crapping out on the timing and range since I turn off animations.

Besides, the Dervish I remember was that monster from 2008. That thing's power was obscene so they had to nerf it in typical fashion. It was part of that Jonin-level ninja set of that time.


well, in my opinion, slash is not counted as a true AoE ring, well, not in the same sense of true AoEs such as fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon and hornet's nest, all of which hits the surrounding mobs instead of hitting the mobs just in front of the user. another interesting note is that slash's AoE is only significant at rage rank 4, which is unlike true AoEs, which already covers a good area of mobs at rage rank 1.

I for one bring a staple of slash as my AoE for smeb while heavy water balloon for smob. i am not trying to promote dervish to be better than all AoEs, in fact, i usually couple my dervish with other AoEs to make it even more efficient (spamming r1 dervish while r4 hwb for example.) i was just merely stating that dervish doesn't deserve the berating it gets from so called 'smob regulars/pros'.
It's a true AoE since you can hit multiple targets even at RR1 if positioned properly. Attacking mobs does bring this out easily enough. RR4 in the middle of a large mob is a sight to see.

Maybe Dervish is being lambasted because of over-hyping? ninja Seriously though, if you weren't intending to push Dervish above the other AoEs, selling it as the second this and highest that was probably not the correct method to go about it.

I guess it's my opinion as well, but Dervish is too much of a middle-child AoE. I could see why people prefer other rings to it when it comes to mobbing.


slash doesn't hit as many mobs as true AoEs that i have mentioned, especially when it is only at rage rank 1. i have slash in my ring slot 99% of the time, practically never take it off, and i can bet my gold on the fact that rr1 slash isn't comparable to rr1 dervish, no matter how you position yourself.

no offence, but how is merely stating it to be stronger than most AoE counts as 'pushing/promoting' the ring? neutral it's the truth, and as i have stated, it's a ring that doesn't deserve a 'noob ring' label. just depends on how experienced the player is at using the ring.

again, i'm just tired of so many zOMGers just undermining that one ring. heck i wouldn't give a flying phuck if they want to talk shet about hornet's nest, but to go ''omg, he has dervish, such a noob.'' is just emotion_facepalm .
That's what I'm disputing: Your claims of the efficiency of Dervish and I've pulled up the thread the contains the collected wisdom of several testers who studied each ring over a long period and generally controlled situations.
Right now: you not seeing Slash as a true AoE because it doesn't hit as many is a little funny. It hits more than one target since it has a crescent area compared to a uniform circle around the avatar, but there is still an area involved.
Lucielfer's avatar

Destructive Warlord

Myrielle
That's what I'm disputing: Your claims of the efficiency of Dervish and I've pulled up the thread the contains the collected wisdom of several testers who studied each ring over a long period and generally controlled situations.
Right now: you not seeing Slash as a true AoE because it doesn't hit as many is a little funny. It hits more than one target since it has a crescent area compared to a uniform circle around the avatar, but there is still an area involved.


i'm not disclaiming slash as an AoE, ok? i just don't see it as a 'true' AoE because the area it hits is just a lot smaller when compared to other 'true' AoEs, (fire rain, dervish, heavy water balloon, hornet nest)

why did i label those rings as true AoEs? because
1. they all share similar areas of attack,
2. all these rings can AoE at rage rank 1.
although slash is able to AoE at rage rank 1, it's AoE it is significantly smaller compared to true AoEs, since slash's AoE only consists of the area in front of the user, or as you have put it, crescent area.

while i did say that slash doesn't have as wide of an area as these AoEs, i never said that slash is a horrible AoE. it has a much stronger attack compared to true AoEs, but a much smaller area of attack as compensation. and as i have mentioned, i personally love slash and have it with me all the time, it's strong and versatile. and as i have also mentioned, dervish, in my opinion, should be spammed at rr1 and used in conjunction with other AoEs, and shouldn't be used as the player's sole AoE ring, as it's rr4 would have a pretty big knockback effect.

well, just wanted to get it out there, i just don't want players to downplay dervish just because of the minor push back it has at rr1 while over looking the fact that it has a really good damage and dps as well as a big AoE, which when coupled together, will definitely help clear mobs in smob a heck lot faster.
Lucielfer's avatar

Destructive Warlord

curtneko
Requin Tiburon
slash doesn't hit as many mobs as true AoEs
hold the phone, a true aoe?? slash hits multiple targets in an area of effect, exactly what makes any ring aoe


i have never said that slash isn't an AoE.

also curt, the whole point of this post was this: dervish doesn't deserve to be downplayed, because it can stand it's ground in terms of DpH, DpS and AoE. if you agree with my statement, fine. if you don't, please do come up with an actual informational or intellectual post, instead of just obviously trying to instigate some response from just taking one line of my post out of context and berating that one statement.
7Near7's avatar

Timid Trader

So I get where you're coming from. I used to have that mindset too. Dervish is just not effective as a DPS ring. It's just not quite as efficient. Even if you know how to handle your avatar placement and manage your knockback well. The effort put into using the ring just doesn't pay off. A lot of rings just don't get endorsement because quite frankly there's the mainstream rings that get the job done a lot more efficiently. Though slash does not maintain the overall area of effect that dervish or any of these other "true aoes" it does maintain a much higher DPS at any rate and proves more useful to the crew since it doesn't hindrance anyone when in use. Using it for a smob set would be like taking Shark to a GR crew or Kam.
Myrielle's post pretty much seals this discussion. You don't use dervish because it's inferior to better aoes in every way. rolleyes Dervish may not have significant knockback at rr1 but it gets pretty significant at higher rage ranks which means you'll have to restrict its use which makes it useless as your primary aoe i.e firerain is meant to be spammed at higher rage ranks.
curtneko's avatar

IRL Cat

Requin Tiburon
curtneko
Requin Tiburon
slash doesn't hit as many mobs as true AoEs
hold the phone, a true aoe?? slash hits multiple targets in an area of effect, exactly what makes any ring aoe


i have never said that slash isn't an AoE.

also curt, the whole point of this post was this: dervish doesn't deserve to be downplayed, because it can stand it's ground in terms of DpH, DpS and AoE. if you agree with my statement, fine. if you don't, please do come up with an actual informational or intellectual post, instead of just obviously trying to instigate some response from just taking one line of my post out of context and berating that one statement.
i don't quite understand how i'm taking it out of context (though i am trying to instigate something, discussion)

you're trying to argue dervish's viability, so myrielle tells you like it is (that slash is superior in both damage per hit and per second) and you try to refute data by saying "slash isn't a true aoe"

dervish isn't viable because fire rain and slash exist and zomg has balancing issues, there's nothing more to dispute

get over your grudge btw, leasfy wouldn't appreciate you being rude to her friend
Erynne's avatar

Scurvy Wench

7,800 Points
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Lucielfer's avatar

Destructive Warlord

7Near7
So I get where you're coming from. I used to have that mindset too. Dervish is just not effective as a DPS ring. It's just not quite as efficient. Even if you know how to handle your avatar placement and manage your knockback well. The effort put into using the ring just doesn't pay off. A lot of rings just don't get endorsement because quite frankly there's the mainstream rings that get the job done a lot more efficiently. Though slash does not maintain the overall area of effect that dervish or any of these other "true aoes" it does maintain a much higher DPS at any rate and proves more useful to the crew since it doesn't hindrance anyone when in use. Using it for a smob set would be like taking Shark to a GR crew or Kam.


i don't really know what are you on about.

dervish has a high dph, dps and large AoE.

i never said slash was worse than dervish. just merely stated that it's AoE is smaller compared to 'true' AoEs. in fact, if you weren't so eager to jump to conclusions, i did say that slash is a strong and versatile ring, in my opinion, it's practically the perfect all round attack ring.

and i don't understand how bringing dervish into smob would be similar to bringing shark into gr or kam?

what i can say is this: dervish is in itself a good AoE ring, with good damage, good DpS, good AoE, sure, slash or fire rain does have advantage over it in some criteria, but it doesn't mean that dervish can't be useful as a secondary or tertiary AoE in smob.

shark has a good DpH, has a good knockback effect, so again, i don't see what is wrong with getting shark for GR or Kam when you are a dps and already brought the required 3 swords rings. but hey, this thread is focused on dervish, not shark attack ring, so why bring it up? please don't go making irrelevant connections and stay within the topic here.

so is dervish considered a noob ring in your opinion?

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