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Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

A few months ago
in a Coliseum not far away...

Chapter 1.5


It is an era of pushovers. Reductions in difficulty have
reduced the Animated to little more than a nuisance.
Even the mightiest of creatures in a Hard level dungeon
present only a minor threat to a buffed crew. The people
cried out for more.

Developers ansered the masses with a new arena, THE
COLISEUM. This combat zone introduced two new levels:
Extreme and Impossible. Extreme pushed players to new
limits, offering a steep-yet-winnable challenge never seen
before. Impossible truly lived up to its name, and invited
Gaians to see how long they could last before it overcame
their resolve.

Now we seek to extend Extreme to the other bosses. Not
for great piles of gold, but for the satisfaction of conquering
a true challenge. What will Extreme hold in store for us?
Perhaps something like this....

Okay, enough with the Star Wars stuff. From time to time, there has been talk of adding an Extreme difficulty level to our instances. Some people also mention Impossible level in the same breath, but I'd rather have something we can actually finish. So here we are. I've given some thought to the matter and come up with a few ideas on how the Extreme level will work. A few rules will apply to all the areas with additional touches for each individual Instance.

Most of these are my ideas, but I welcome any and all input. If you have your own thoughts about what Extreme should be, please share! If you would rather not see Extreme, then by all means tell us why you feel that way. Let's see if we can give the Devs some inspiration!

Table of Contents
  1. Intro and Table of Contents
  2. How Extreme will be different from Hard
  3. An idea on becoming Extreme
  4. Feedback from the z!Forum
  5. Special Thanks
  6. Reserved
  7. Thread open and tl;dr

This thread brought to you by the z!Magine guild.
"z!Magine the Possibilities."
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

Universal features
  • First and foremost, the CL of everything should be 1.0 above the player. With the exception of Mayhem's house and DMP, Hard mode is +0.6, so nudging it a little higher fits the bill.
  • Beyond that, different instances would each get a different modification, though I agree that adding a certain "randomized" flair to some of them would be a step in the right direction. As a certain z!Magineer will tell you, removing some of the game's predictability is a good idea.
  • I also have some ideas for new enemy recolors, as well as additional attacks and skills for the Animated.

Mayhem's House
  • Since we're dealing with low-level players, I think the increased CL makes it challenging enough.
  • Perhaps the fifth or tenth wave of Gnomes could use a stronger one in place of two or three weaker ones.
  • Gnome recolor: Colonel Calamity

Dead Man's Pass
  • Still a low-level area, so I won't make any changes too drastic.
  • Okay, maybe I will.
  • Replace all the OMGs with OMFGs, and step up the old OMFGs to one of the Coliseum's new recolors. OMGLOL or something.
  • Add a second random patrol near Stoocie and the box.
  • The OMGWTF can call for reinforcements during the battle.

Doll Shrine
  • Kat's doll is too weak. She actually has less HP than the OMGWTF at an equal level. I'll address this momentarily.
  • During the fight with KKD, she calls for backup, in the form of regular dolls, Collectibles, and...
  • New enemy! Antique Kokeshi Doll
    ----- More HP than the Collectible
    ----- Melee attack: Serrated Fan: Does a strong hit, with 2-3 pulses of DoT. Think Hack.
    ----- Ranged attack: Tripto Fan: Weaker, but causes a Speed Debuff. Makes kiting difficult.
  • If raising KKD's health is not an option, I say armor and healing.
  • New Abilities!
    ----- Porcelain Glaze: Armor. 20% damage reduction, 100xCL Armor Pool.
    ----- Doll energy: One time during the fight, when her HP falls below a certain point, she will absorb energy from all the dolls defeated up to that point. (Ones defeated before she spawned are not counted) The more minions you've killed, the more she recovers. "NO! I will not go gently into the Void! My daughters, your sacrifices are not in vain!"

Wolf Den
  • Two words: Chilling Howl. She Wolf's new ability will strike Fear into any players nearby.
  • Another idea for new enemy: Outlaw Beta
    ----- Black recolor of the other wolves
    ----- Appears either during the last wave before She Wolf, or as her reinforcements, or both.
    ----- May be able to lick She Wolf's wounds, effectively healing her

Saw Mill
  • So we have Ripper Saws now. Or we did. And we should! It proves the devs are willing to do recolors, even if they end up the same color as the original.
  • Sawdust Burst: At a random time during the fight, one player is targeted by an AoE Accuracy Debuff. Nearby players are caught in the blast. Their Acc is lowered by roughly the equivalent of RR2-3 Knife Sharpen for a minute or so.
  • Sawdust Burst part 2: Using Hot Foot, Fire Rain, or any [Fire Element] Attack (once Elements are installed) may ignite the sawdust, causing AoE damage to players. Wait for the dust to settle or heal up for your foolishness.
  • Sawdust Burst and other ideas were originally introduced in this thread.

Duneslam Island
  • Already pretty challenging on Hard, unless you have a well-oiled crew.
  • New Ability: Earthquakes! Duneslam's arrival "nearly knocks you off your feet" already, so for Extreme level, let's make it happen for real. His appearance will Root everyone, so you're suddenly exposed to any surviving minions. After that, he can create additional quakes to Root you again.
  • Minions will continue to appear during the fight. Possibly generated by Earthquakes! Yes, I know the danger of this becoming Endless DS. Let's hear your solutions wink

Throne Room
  • New enemy: Tiny Shaman
    ----- A recolor of the TWD, with slightly more HP.
    ----- Ranged attack: Sleep Dart: Minor damage and causes Sleep. Remember when the TWD's could do this?
    ----- Support: Healing: Unlike the existing TWD, which can only heal other Tinies, the Shaman can heal ANY Animated! And yes, this includes the Giant Stone Coatl himself! Luckily it only heals a single target at a time.
    ----- Support: Battle song: Raises the Accuracy of all nearby Tinies.
  • Upgraded enemies: Ixtli, Eztli, and Necali: Each time they lose a layer of their body, they generate an adverse effect. Sleep Cloud, for example. Or a damaging explosion.
  • Coatl gets desperate, reignites one of the flames. This only happens once, but it makes him invulnerable until you kill off a certain number of minions. Maybe 5x Crew size?

Shallow Seas (and beyond)
  • Tiny bubbles: Small things with big knockback.
  • Aggressive coral: The reefs get grabby.
  • Krakken hug: Something you can attack, but may regret....
  • These ideas are discussed in greater length in this thread.
  • Possible recolors:
    ----- Nerd Clam (Can bore you to Sleep)
    ----- Barnacles (Greek pronounciation - The champion of all Barnacle Fluffs)
    ----- Labtech Mechanic (Heals self or Seacycles, not other Labtechs)
    ----- Sea Chopper (upgraded Seacycle)
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

A little back-and-forth within the z!Magine guild gave rise to this idea:

People say that there is no end-game content, whatsoever. And they are, kind of right, after beating EB, there's nothing to do, or at least, not anything apparent. I doubt most non-completionist would bother with seeing later waves of Hive, participating on all mini-events of finding all rare spawns - if they didn't know about it. And some, even if they did, wouldn't feel like they'd be missing much.
It's only understandable for people to be like that.

So we trick them!

Solution: Turn this into End-Game content.
Sure, there's no good reason to prevent people on those settings earlier but the point is to make them feel like they're being allowed into new stuff! If they get loads of new content en masse, but are required to unlock it, they'll flock to it.
Forbidden fruit and all that jazz!

>Those red, popping up letters that come up on screen, that our characters can certainly hear but belong to no one<
"Congratulations on beating the final boss of the first chapter of zOMG! on the Hard difficulty setting!"

"You are truly great fighters, and your skills compare to those of no one's."

"But more dangerous trials still await, and new, stronger foes will soon threaten the world of Gaia."

"Now go, young fighters, prove yourselves worthy of protecting the world of gaia once more!"

"Beat the trials, and you shall receive your just reward"


Everytime you clear a Boss Lair on Extreme difficulty, you receive a special piece of loot, all similar to each other. You can get multiples of the same by clearing more times.

If anyone is on the crew that didn't beat SS on Hard, then the whole crew can't go in. I think SS used to do that once.
If someone is added in the middle of a run that doesn't fit the requirement, the whole crew is kicked out.

When you beat All extreme boss lairs at least once
"Your strong will remains unbroken in face of the Animated's rampage!"

"And with it, you rose victorious from every trial"

"You have proven that gaians, everywhere, may depend on you to protect them. You are their Heroes"

"But in your desperate struggle, the source of the animated's power grew, ever more"

"The rift is widenning..."

"Now go Heroes. Complete one final trial.
Defeat the mechanical monstrosity born from the depths"


the first time SS Extreme is completed
"The world is safe."

"For now..."

"You received <Super Awesome Epic recipe name's>"


That epic recipe is unique per account, and require 10 pieces of each loot you get from beating boss lairs on Extreme. The item would have an extra pose that has nothing to do with the item itself, and is instead a teaser at the overall plot of "Chapter 2".

Hive extreme is the same as Hive, only wave one corresponds to wave 50 of regular Hive, and there's a new pair of bug and walker replacements eventually, to turn it up a notch. No special reward for doing it, other than bragging rights.

Would anyone dare say "No end game content" at that point?

Perhaps there could be 3-5 different recipes that are granted both randomly and rarely. Each one would require different proportions of Extreme Loot and other crap. There's already a precedent for this, as the Stone Coatl drops the rare Otami weapon recipes now and then. Just keep the drop rate low and people will keep looking.

Loot list?
Mayhem's Coffee Mug - The best part of waking the General up too early.
WTFang - A pointy tooth extracted from the monster in Dead Man's Pass.
Ghi Whorl - Energy released from the Kokeshi Dolls, frozen into a spiral.
Sable Pelt - Jet-black fur from the mighty She Wolf.
Diamond-tipped Blade - Papa Saw's secret to success.
Enormous Bucket - Duneslam's helm. Almost big enough to park a car in!
Huitzotl's Crest - Ornate headdress taken from the Giant Coatl. Slightly worn.

And no, if you had to beat EB Hard first, I don't think anyone would question the lack of end-game content.

Eh, I was thinking something relatively long term but still certain to acquire from the recipe, like what sinister scarf is, to make sure everything felt connected. But whatever works, works, and that works as well. The difference is it'd likely take longer to get.
* This idea partially conflicts with another: The Hive Queen's lair.
But that goes beyond the scope of this thread.
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

Forum Feedback

New Ability: Earthquakes! Duneslam's arrival "nearly knocks you off your feet" already, so for Extreme level, let's make it happen for real. His appearance will Root everyone, so you're suddenly exposed to any surviving minions. After that, he can create additional quakes to Root you again.
-Duneslam Island.

How about making some people (4/6 in full crew?) in the crew "kneel". This would/could be worse than the Root (as there is the powerup Cure). Kneeling would mean you have to stand up, but there is the chance you get insta-dazed.

EDIT: Or is this just really evil? twisted

User Image
[take me somewhere squishy and stuff]
Yes, that is really evil. But I like it! Certainly adds to the unpredictability, not knowing whether or not you'll be forced into kneeling.

One thing I might add would be perhaps new smaller recipes for finishing the 'extreme' boss levels, just a little something, something to hold you over until you beat it last level to get the 'insert epic recipe'
More recipes are never a bad thing. Would you call these ... Semi-Epic?

One thing I always wanted to see was He-wolf. I always imagined him as the white version of She-wolf and slightly larger than her. Maybe they could add him in the extreme difficulty? I think it would be neat.
He has the power!!! I guess it's as likely as any of the other ideas razz

Ju Tru Nix
Quick thought on DS... If it's Extreme, make it EXTREME. Give the teams a time limit. XD
If you need a story for it; now that you've proven yourself, the guards will now allow you out to the island during low tide. They want you to see if eliminating the harder monsters from the tiny island, will help reduce the animated sand on the beach. However, they only spawn as the tide is coming in, so you better hurry!
Meanwhile, the animated has all the great stuff you've already mentioned.
Time limits, why didn't I think of that?! I'm not sure if the visuals can be altered to represent a rising tide, but it's certainly a worthy idea. A timer could also prevent Endless KKD.
Though now that I think about it, having three or four areas with "endless" options might disperse the PS crowd.

ryry Kenny_McCormick ryry
-for EB, when your fighting the body, he is able to summon a few seacycles here and there, and for the head, he can summon a few robofish, as well as labtechs, seeing as how they have to repay for their failed work on making the monster invincible. it would also help people (me included) with their robofish badge kills, seeing how its taken me over a year to kill 870.

-for stone coatl, when your fighting it, he can now summon masks instead of just vases, terrors, and coatls. and, maybe, there could be a spirit vase along with the stone coatl, with significantly less hp than at dev meats of course to make it slightly easier and less time-consuming, maybe, say, twice the hp of the stone coatl?

-for duneslam, he can have the ability to summon ALL sand creatures, which includes sand fluffs! he can also summon a "Dune Fluff", which is like the badass version of a sand fluff, and can do things similar to DS, but causes less damage and has less hp than him. around 1,000 could be the max hp for it.

-for papa saw, how about three mama RIPPER saws and a gay papa saw, so there are total 3 mama saws and two papa saws. or instead of a gay papa saw it can be an uncle saw, whichever you prefer.

-for shewolf, two words: Big Dog. its the only other wolf-boss in the game, why not make him part of she-wolf? how about, RIGHT after you kill she-wolf, a message pops up (probably from gustav) and says "LOOK OUT! IT EZ ZE SHE-WOLFS HUSBAND, BIG DOG!" and big dog comes out and you have to kill him, too.

-for KKD: she can also summon the two other zen monster: drums and ghost lanterns, depending on the time of day you fight her- at nighttime, she can spawn ghost lanterns, maybe even a nexus here or there, at daytime, same thing, except with taiko drums, along with taiko nexuses.

-for DMP: you know how the vampires are beyond the gate where u fight the OMGWTF? well, how about a Night Fright comes out once you kill the OMGWTF? A message pops up saying,"WHAT?! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?! I will send one of my minions to finish the job..." and a few seconds later, a Night Fright shows up, with scaled health and damage of course depending on the CL.

-Gnome General: you know how in ahrd he has those two shroom cannons guarding him? how about once you kill them, a lawnshark takes both of their places, and you have to kill them WHILE fighting the general. and they can drop a special recipe or something like that if you kill them before the general.

some of my ideas may be a little to extreme, but hey, its extreme! XD
EB ... summoning things ... more threatening than a Grunny Sub? Fabuloud idea!
The tail can summon Commanders or worse, the body calls for Sea Choppers, and Labtech Mechanics can come in to try and repair the Head unit!
I'm up for throwing a random Spirit Vase into the mix. Maybe only after Eztli and Friends go down, so you're not required to beat it before fighting the Coatl itself.
Dune Fluff... love it! (Or, failing that, at least toss Barnacle Fluffs and Anchor/Sea Anchor Bugs into the fray)
Instead of Mama Ripper Saw, what about calling her Big Mama Saw? And not sold on the double-papa idea. Perhaps two Mamas half-way through, and a third along with Papa?
I don't think the werewolf Big Dog belongs in She Wolf, personally. Leave them in Undermountain. *Points to He-Wolf idea above*
Again, I think KKD should probably be limited to other dolls. Though I'm not above the idea of Sakura Fluff Nexus!
The Night Fright idea would only work if the vampires actually ARE back in the house. In the current story, it is supposed to be vacant. OMGWTF just ... moved in.
The scale of the room might not work for a Lawnshark, but it's something to consider.
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

Special Thanks!

The entire z!OMG staff (past and present) - For making the game, of course
The z!Magine guild - For letting me flesh out my ideas
jzmajor - For the Papa Saw idea thread
Reglare Excile - For the SS/EB idea thread
Quintafeira12 - For the unlockable and epic recipe ideas
Red Kutai - For pointing out that predictability isn't all it's cracked up to be
Myrielle - For the acronym, SSEBEX
-Shiny_Tsukkomi- - For the notion of Epic Fluffs

Everyone quoted in the post above - For their suggestions

You - For reading! ^_^
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

Reserved for good measure
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

This thread is now open! xd

tl;dr - If zOMG! added Extreme level to the boss instances, what would you like to see?

"Ghi is an energy field. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it... binds the universe together."
The Santa Clause's avatar

Aged Giver

i saw this thread in z!magine.

i support this, zOMG! is a little bit too easy for the most part and needs a challenge.

i think for DS, they could change 1/3 of the lowest HP sandcastles to the higher HP sandcastles (their names escape me at the moment...)
RafiCat's avatar

Mega Hoarder

Great ideas.

And it's always amused me that Kat's doll is so easy to kill. When I was doing Zen, I was always relieved when we got to the doll. blaugh
Judeau_the_Modest's avatar

Codebreaking Phantom

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DO WANT !!1 scream

Now we just need Devs to implement this...
gataka's avatar

Familiar Lunatic

Finally out. I still need to read it >.>
Where did Kutai hammer down predictability?
Thard_Verad's avatar

Dangerous Genius

Finally out. I still need to read it >.>
Where did Kutai hammer down predictability?

Perhaps I'm putting too many words in his fingers, but he does mention adding unpredictable elements in the PS thread linked above.
As cool as it would be to see this happen I will not hold my breath to see it implemented.
Memory Haunts You's avatar

Rainbow Hunter

I love all the ideas. heart

I don't have a lot to add, I'm afraid...

General Mayhem's quarters: maybe add some of those lawnmowersharks from the VG random event? Those enjoyable creatures are sadly seldom seen as it is now, since their event is always so short-lived.

DMP is certainly a place where less predictable things could happen, like swarms of clutches and purses that come flying out of nowhere, patrols of OMFGs that don't always take the same path, etc.
Tarot Rune's avatar

Invisible Visionary

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> heart A heart > I want to take this idea and hug it.. Great job Thard!

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