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Remember that what we want to do is drive more users to zOMG

Well you failed on that part my friend.
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This really does explain it very well. I think now that I understand this better, and I really do support it.

However, now that you have this curve, I really don't think it's necessary to make sEB impossible. Because once people hit the 10% mark, most people are ceasing to play sEB. Does it really matter how long it takes to make the gold as long as the amount of gold people are making is the same?

Also, there /are/, believe it or not, some people, like myself, who play sEB as opposed to other forms of it because it is a challenge. I enjoy the challenge of the game overall. sEB happens to be my favorite.




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i just have a tiny comment. How did the top percentage of sebbers get a little under a mill in 10 seb runs. That's practically impossible, unless you're doing all of ss and then eb and getting the maximum reward every single time. But still you won't get more than 50-60k.

So 2 runs of 60k = 120k.
10 seb runs = 5 runs of two.
120k x 5 = 600k
... would 600k be considered a little under 1mill ?
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sk8ing_cat
i just have a tiny comment. How did the top percentage of sebbers get a little under a mill in 10 seb runs. That's practically impossible, unless you're doing all of ss and then eb and getting the maximum reward every single time. But still you won't get more than 50-60k.

So 2 runs of 60k = 120k.
10 seb runs = 5 runs of two.
120k x 5 = 600k
... would 600k be considered a little under 1mill ?


All you know is that they did 10 sEB. You don't know what else they've been doing.
Even that number might be wrong itself. It could be 12 sEBs,, but I digress.

So, for all accounts, the owner of the account could have sEB'ed 10 times during the day, then grabbed his account and done endless papa saw the rest of the day.

I have a stupid trick of my own where I can make key presses affect other windows, and even that I never used for anything because I never saw the point of it, but it sure is tempting to play some FPS with something behind doing mindless grinding with keys bound to W and S (Still, what would I gain from it? 100g then a daze?).
Someone more into gaining gold could even set a bot for that and leave the computer alone.
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Quintafeira12
sk8ing_cat
i just have a tiny comment. How did the top percentage of sebbers get a little under a mill in 10 seb runs. That's practically impossible, unless you're doing all of ss and then eb and getting the maximum reward every single time. But still you won't get more than 50-60k.

So 2 runs of 60k = 120k.
10 seb runs = 5 runs of two.
120k x 5 = 600k
... would 600k be considered a little under 1mill ?


All you know is that they did 10 sEB. You don't know what else they've been doing.
Even that number might be wrong itself. It could be 12 sEBs,, but I digress.

So, for all accounts, the owner of the account could have sEB'ed 10 times during the day, then grabbed his account and done endless papa saw the rest of the day.

I have a stupid trick of my own where I can make key presses affect other windows, and even that I never used for anything because I never saw the point of it, but it sure is tempting to play some FPS with something behind doing mindless grinding with keys bound to W and S (Still, what would I gain from it? 100g then a daze?).
Someone more into gaining gold could even set a bot for that and leave the computer alone.

lol, but yeah, i was just wondering because 10 seb runs does not get you that much, and he didn't say anything else about other things. He said from the seb runs, so that's why i wanted it cleared up, but thank you for replying (:
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Thanks very much for this Pan! smile

It will be extremely interesting to see if those people who have been doing the loudest complaining, will take the time to come in and read your explanation of the changes.
I hate to say it, but I doubt they will, or if they do, I doubt that it will lessen their outrage.
In my experience, people seldom let facts stand in the way of a good, self interested rant.

Thanks too, for taking broader actions to deal with the inflation issue.
I can't help but think that, as prices gradually lower in the MP, it will be beneficial for everybody.

I still have a question or two though, and although they may appear to be unrelated to the immediate issue, there is a connection insomuch as the whiners tend to pick at any flaws in zOMG and Gaia as a means of bolstering their position.

When will the Immortal Fish issue be addressed once and for all?
They've been swimming around for well over a year now and continue to pump huge amounts of gold into the economy.

When will the Broken Quest Chain, Badge Granting and other zOMG glitches be fixed?
A lot of people are frustrated by these and the whiners especially use them to substantiate their petulant claims that "Gaia doesn't care about us users!"

Are there any plans to automate the cycling of the Servers on weekends to address the "Weekend Lag" issue?


Sorry to have digressed from the specific issue at hand, but, as I mentioned, there is a correlation, because addressing these would strip the whiners of their supporting complaints and expose them for the self-interested brats they seem to be.
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Update: confirmed that GMT 0:00 is the reset time.

beckygrendel
That wasn't my experience yesterday when testing the 100k theory floating around, but thank you for the clarification on the calculations.

I played a mind-numbing, marathon Papa Saw session to see what all the fuss was about. Up to 100k, I earned the normal amounts. After 100k, I was only earning about 50%, not 90%. I had no desire to keep playing to 150k. In fact, it will be quite a while until I ever play Papa Saw again.

Yeah, looking at your grant logs, you definitely hit something >10% at about 11:00am PST yesterday. I'll take a look at other people and see what the issue is, and we'll probably tweak the code on Monday to make it more gentle / work properly.

sk8ing_cat
i just have a tiny comment. How did the top percentage of sebbers get a little under a mill in 10 seb runs. That's practically impossible, unless you're doing all of ss and then eb and getting the maximum reward every single time. But still you won't get more than 50-60k.

It was 10 sEB runs + other stuff, not just 10 sEB runs -- I just mentioned the sEB runs because it was interesting and they are easy to see in the grant logs.

WideEyed
When will the Immortal Fish issue be addressed once and for all? They've been swimming around for well over a year now and continue to pump huge amounts of gold into the economy.

When will the Broken Quest Chain, Badge Granting and other zOMG glitches be fixed?
A lot of people are frustrated by these and the whiners especially use them to substantiate their petulant claims that "Gaia doesn't care about us users!"

Are there any plans to automate the cycling of the Servers on weekends to address the "Weekend Lag" issue?

Yeah, there has been an ongoing thread in the Gaia Aquarium forum about BG. I'm hoping that we can figure out exactly what we're doing in the next few weeks, but taking care of the immortal fish issue is something we have to do.

I'll have to defer to Swarf on particular bugs, but if there are killer server-side bugs that are really impinging people's enjoyment, we should take a look at them, especially since we're going to start sending an influx of new users and want to make sure they have a decent experience.

Server cycling is easy, though -- I know that the zOMG team asked for that, but ops has just been swamped. We will go over with cookies and beg them to do it. Cookies usually work.
i love the idea of somehow changing eb to make sure speed runs arent possible anymore. in fact, make it longer and more complicated too, but keep the gold drop to 40-50k total, 20-30k in the end drop at the max but it'd have to be a lot of work and like you said - in some way that speeding wouldn't be possible, players won't even have enough patience to do it more then twice a day.
ryry Kenny_McGroot ryry's avatar

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to all the people who hate the gold curve:
a: there have been over a dozen threads against the gold curve. we get it- you hate it, so can you just shut up?
b: constantly whining isnt going to get the gold curve back to the way it was- its just going to annoy a bunch of people and accomplish nothing other than making a bunch of people who dont care/are for the gold curve annoyed because you think making 10 times more per day than the average gaian isnt enough.
Panagrammic


WideEyed


When will the Broken Quest Chain, Badge Granting and other zOMG glitches be fixed?
A lot of people are frustrated by these and the whiners especially use them to substantiate their petulant claims that "Gaia doesn't care about us users!"

Are there any plans to automate the cycling of the Servers on weekends to address the "Weekend Lag" issue?



I'll have to defer to Swarf on particular bugs, but if there are killer server-side bugs that are really impinging people's enjoyment, we should take a look at them, especially since we're going to start sending an influx of new users and want to make sure they have a decent experience.

Server cycling is easy, though -- I know that the zOMG team asked for that, but ops has just been swamped. We will go over with cookies and beg them to do it. Cookies usually work.


These issues have been around for a long time and it would be nice to get them fixed. I have 8 broken quests I think, including the Rin & Lin quest.
SilverChaosti's avatar

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Least this explanation is better.
Now, can you do a little favor and take out Swarfs sticky thing?
That's causing a lot of havoc and prissy people and making them more riled then needed.
.-.
I'm not done reading this one so I can't comment on it yet
@Kenny: Don't tell someone to shut up about something like this. You'll only piss them off and rile them even more
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Panagrammic
It was 10 sEB runs + other stuff, not just 10 sEB runs -- I just mentioned the sEB runs because it was interesting and they are easy to see in the grant logs.


ah i see, thanks pan! is 100k truly the amount that the average gaian makes? ....because it's hard to believe that....unless they either don't draw, or don't zomg or vend,..that'd be one of the only ways i'd think for that to be right.

@kenny: to your a, there are also a lot of threads about the liking of the gold curve, so why don't you essentially tell them to shut up?
and there has not only been whining, but also people discussing, like some friends i know who are just talking about it.
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Panagrammic


WideEyed
When will the Immortal Fish issue be addressed once and for all? They've been swimming around for well over a year now and continue to pump huge amounts of gold into the economy.

When will the Broken Quest Chain, Badge Granting and other zOMG glitches be fixed?
A lot of people are frustrated by these and the whiners especially use them to substantiate their petulant claims that "Gaia doesn't care about us users!"

Are there any plans to automate the cycling of the Servers on weekends to address the "Weekend Lag" issue?

Yeah, there has been an ongoing thread in the Gaia Aquarium forum about BG. I'm hoping that we can figure out exactly what we're doing in the next few weeks, but taking care of the immortal fish issue is something we have to do.

I'll have to defer to Swarf on particular bugs, but if there are killer server-side bugs that are really impinging people's enjoyment, we should take a look at them, especially since we're going to start sending an influx of new users and want to make sure they have a decent experience.

Server cycling is easy, though -- I know that the zOMG team asked for that, but ops has just been swamped. We will go over with cookies and beg them to do it. Cookies usually work.


Again, thanks so much Pan!
I always get a serious case of the "warm fuzzies" when someone takes the time to seriously consider and address my concerns. wink

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, by how few of the most vocal complainers have posted here.
Too bad important Topics such as this can't somehow be made mandatory reading. maybe if there was a quiz you could take for gold? wink
It would be nice if all the "Gaia doesn't give a spit bout their customers" types saw the responsiveness and interaction that's going on right now, and on a Sunday to boot.
Of course, reality might threaten their world view and we couldn't have that happen now, could we? wink
Hi, Panagrammic. First of all, thanks for clarifying the numbers around the gold nerfs on zOMG.

However, I do want to point out that:
1) The average time for an sEB run is about twenty minutes for most of the people I've crewed with, meaning it would take four runs, each earning about 40k, to make 160k. That would mean that 150k+ would take about... 1.3 hours. (This isn't including the time to find a crew, though, of course.)
2) Is it really wise to base the nerfs off a single day? Especially on a Sunday, when students (which I imagine make up a very large portion of the zOMG userbase) have time to play and will therefore earn more gold than a normal weekday? Moreover, statistically, a sample size of one day seems like it isn't a very good basis for justification on the curve... I would feel more comfortable if a week, or even a month, was inspected.
3) Lowering the gold seems completely counter intuitive if the goal is to drive more users to play zOMG. Sure, many users play for the fun, but many also play for the gold perk, which has just been downsized dramatically at the top end of the curve. But putting that all aside, what about the other pressing issues concerning zOMG? One huge hurdle for newbies is the lack of developer support for the game. There are tons of glitches that really, really need attention in the game, and with less and less devs, it's unlikely they'll ever get fixed. Also, what about updates? I feel like older players lose interest in the game because we never get any new things to play. What's the point in getting new users to join if older ones are leaving/have left in droves?

Gold curve or not, I don't expect these observations to change anything. I just want to see if these aspects were taken to consideration before the gold nerf was implemented.

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