The Anti-Guide

How do you try to improve your writing?

I try to avoid old, stupid things.	17.5%	[ 2370 ]
I add new things.	14.7%	[ 1993 ]
A combination of both (if one more than the other, pick it).	67.8%	[ 9169 ]
Total Votes:			[ 13532 ]

[Clare_N]

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

And anyone who tells you otherwise is just being mean (or, at least, excessively picky) and deserves to be flamed in retaliation. Remember, the:

Quote:

It's my story and I can write what I like!

line is a very useful tool for getting these morons to shut up.

[DarknessofHeavenandDreams]

Clare_N

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

And anyone who tells you otherwise is just being mean (or, at least, excessively picky) and deserves to be flamed in retaliation. Remember, the:

Quote:

It's my story and I can write what I like!

line is a very useful tool for getting these morons to shut up.

If that doesn't work, tell them all art is subjective.

[Imalyose]

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

((Do you mean bad writing or bad grammar? Bad grammar and incorrect spelling (slang) is integrated into stories to show culture and characterization.

I also think that twilight is "objectively bad writing" (thank god this book came out. It's the poster boy for examples of bad writing, cause everyone's read it and no one likes it). "Objectively" because it WAS perfect for it's target audience (young teen girls).... and technically there aren't plot holes. She just doesn't explain anything. Really, if we can accept the motivations given in the old fairy tales, then we can accept the illogical things in twilight. Such as a bunch of teenagers hearing each other's thoughts and yet not hating each other. I would hate anyone who knew every time I masturbated o-o))

[I_Write_Ivre]

Imalyose

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

Do you mean bad writing or bad grammar? Bad grammar and incorrect spelling (slang) is integrated into stories to show culture and characterization.

I also think that twilight is "objectively bad writing" (thank god this book came out. It's the poster boy for examples of bad writing, cause everyone's read it and no one likes it). "Objectively" because it WAS perfect for it's target audience (young teen girls).... and technically there aren't plot holes. She just doesn't explain anything. Really, if we can accept the motivations given in the old fairy tales, then we can accept the illogical things in twilight. Such as a bunch of teenagers hearing each other's thoughts and yet not hating each other. I would hate anyone who knew every time I masturbated o-o

((First, use parentheses--unless your whole post IS sarcastic--secondly, no, Twilight is objectively bad and teens are smart enough to see the plotholes, broken aesops, stockholm syndrome, cruel manipulation, blatant errors in sense, geography, etc.

Plus, where the HELL did you get that spelling and grammar mistakes always equate to slang?

If your post isn't sarcastic, you seriously don't know writing or how the anti-guide works.))

[Imalyose]

I_Write_Ivre

Imalyose

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

Do you mean bad writing or bad grammar? Bad grammar and incorrect spelling (slang) is integrated into stories to show culture and characterization.

I also think that twilight is "objectively bad writing" (thank god this book came out. It's the poster boy for examples of bad writing, cause everyone's read it and no one likes it). "Objectively" because it WAS perfect for it's target audience (young teen girls).... and technically there aren't plot holes. She just doesn't explain anything. Really, if we can accept the motivations given in the old fairy tales, then we can accept the illogical things in twilight. Such as a bunch of teenagers hearing each other's thoughts and yet not hating each other. I would hate anyone who knew every time I masturbated o-o

((First, use parentheses--unless your whole post IS sarcastic--secondly, no, Twilight is objectively bad and teens are smart enough to see the plotholes, broken aesops, stockholm syndrome, cruel manipulation, blatant errors in sense, geography, etc.))

((
"Twilight is objectively bad" "I also think that twilight is 'objectively bad writing'" ????????????????????? um? Thank you for pointing out that we agree.

"Teens are smart enough to see..." OBVIOUSLY. Hence it selling so well. That makes perfect sense. It hit it's target audience. They swooned over the idea that someone would become suicidal because their boyfriend broke up with them, it sold millions. Therefore, it completed it's goal.
I don't think people are smart enough to see horrible writing. Most romance novels are terrible, yet it's a huge market.

I just thought of something.... by saying something is objectively bad as long as it sells.... I am saying that it is good... ugh. Nevermind, I take back what I said, bad writing is bad writing. I want to wash my mouth out with soap for saying otherwise.))

[I_Write_Ivre]

Imalyose

I_Write_Ivre

Imalyose

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

Do you mean bad writing or bad grammar? Bad grammar and incorrect spelling (slang) is integrated into stories to show culture and characterization.

I also think that twilight is "objectively bad writing" (thank god this book came out. It's the poster boy for examples of bad writing, cause everyone's read it and no one likes it). "Objectively" because it WAS perfect for it's target audience (young teen girls).... and technically there aren't plot holes. She just doesn't explain anything. Really, if we can accept the motivations given in the old fairy tales, then we can accept the illogical things in twilight. Such as a bunch of teenagers hearing each other's thoughts and yet not hating each other. I would hate anyone who knew every time I masturbated o-o

((First, use parentheses--unless your whole post IS sarcastic--secondly, no, Twilight is objectively bad and teens are smart enough to see the plotholes, broken aesops, stockholm syndrome, cruel manipulation, blatant errors in sense, geography, etc.))

((
"Twilight is objectively bad" "I also think that twilight is 'objectively bad writing'" ????????????????????? um? Thank you for pointing out that we agree.

"Teens are smart enough to see..." OBVIOUSLY. Hence it selling so well. That makes perfect sense. It hit it's target audience. They swooned over the idea that someone would become suicidal because their boyfriend broke up with them, it sold millions. Therefore, it completed it's goal.
I don't think people are smart enough to see horrible writing. Most romance novels are terrible, yet it's a huge market.

I just thought of something.... by saying something is objectively bad as long as it sells.... I am saying that it is good... ugh. Nevermind, I take back what I said, bad writing is bad writing. I want to wash my mouth out with soap for saying that.))

((Basic logical fallacy; the fallacy of popularity. You just claimed it's okay to say 'Brazil's west coast' because something popluar did as well. You are advocating typos, bad spelling in narrative that was not intended to have slang, bad continuity, and lack of characterization, as well as many other basic mistakes that yes, are objective, purely because the book is popular.

Sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but Guess who else was popular? Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tun, Ian Brady, Jame Warren Jones, and Charles Manson. If you don't know some of those, do what Rowling should have done and look them up. If you don't, well, that would objectively be a bad idea, now wouldn't it?)

[Imalyose]

I_Write_Ivre

Imalyose

I_Write_Ivre

Imalyose

I_Write_Ivre

There is no such things as 'objectively bad writing.'

Plotholes? Blatant factual errors? Obvious lapses in logic or understanding of the world? Moral a mess? Call it art and you're fine. Work is for losers.

Do you mean bad writing or bad grammar? Bad grammar and incorrect spelling (slang) is integrated into stories to show culture and characterization.

I also think that twilight is "objectively bad writing" (thank god this book came out. It's the poster boy for examples of bad writing, cause everyone's read it and no one likes it). "Objectively" because it WAS perfect for it's target audience (young teen girls).... and technically there aren't plot holes. She just doesn't explain anything. Really, if we can accept the motivations given in the old fairy tales, then we can accept the illogical things in twilight. Such as a bunch of teenagers hearing each other's thoughts and yet not hating each other. I would hate anyone who knew every time I masturbated o-o

((First, use parentheses--unless your whole post IS sarcastic--secondly, no, Twilight is objectively bad and teens are smart enough to see the plotholes, broken aesops, stockholm syndrome, cruel manipulation, blatant errors in sense, geography, etc.))

((
"Twilight is objectively bad" "I also think that twilight is 'objectively bad writing'" ????????????????????? um? Thank you for pointing out that we agree.

"Teens are smart enough to see..." OBVIOUSLY. Hence it selling so well. That makes perfect sense. It hit it's target audience. They swooned over the idea that someone would become suicidal because their boyfriend broke up with them, it sold millions. Therefore, it completed it's goal.
I don't think people are smart enough to see horrible writing. Most romance novels are terrible, yet it's a huge market.

I just thought of something.... by saying something is objectively bad as long as it sells.... I am saying that it is good... ugh. Nevermind, I take back what I said, bad writing is bad writing. I want to wash my mouth out with soap for saying that.))

((Basic logical fallacy; the fallacy of popularity. You just claimed it's okay to say 'Brazil's west coast' because something popluar did as well. You are advocating typos, bad spelling in narrative that was not intended to have slang, bad continuity, and lack of characterization, as well as many other basic mistakes that yes, are objective, purely because the book is popular.

Sorry to invoke Godwin's law, but Guess who else was popular? Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tun, Ian Brady, Jame Warren Jones, and Charles Manson. If you don't know some of those, do what Rowling should have done and look them up. If you don't, well, that would objectively be a bad idea, now wouldn't it?)

((eh, you've convinced me. Actually there is even more in support of your argument: the fact that an author might not choose to show anyone else a story they wrote, so popularity wouldn't even matter.

I was basically saying that for something to be written good it only has to complete it's goal. Which is completely untrue. The goal of one paper could be to be read by another person. If it completes it's goal doesn't have any baring on the writing itself.


Though once again, I must ask if you are including intentional grammar and spelling mistakes used in quotes? For example, this story I read about the woes of some black girl and her drug dealing boyfriend. In order to show how uneducated the characters were the author included the way they pronounced the words. I can't remember any examples, but I know Mary-Janice Davidson (an author who asked the question "what would happen if a mary sue was confronted with a mary sue situation, yet people had realistic responses to her" and came up with Betsy the Vampire Queen) uses "gawd" instead of "god". Things like that. Stories where it would be more distracting for the characters to speak well, than to include misspellings.

(i'm not talking about words whose spellings change over time, like Shakespeare's plays. I'm talking stories written in times with dictionaries.)))

[I_Write_Ivre]

Imalyose

Though once again, I must ask if you are including intentional grammar and spelling mistakes used in quotes? For example, this story I read about the woes of some black girl and her drug dealing boyfriend. In order to show how uneducated the characters were the author included the way they pronounced the words. I can't remember any examples, but I know Mary-Janice Davidson (an author who asked the question "what would happen if a mary sue was confronted with a mary sue situation, yet people had realistic responses to her" and came up with Betsy the Vampire Queen) uses "gawd" instead of "god". Things like that. Stories where it would be more distracting for the characters to speak well, than to include misspellings.))

It'd depend. Does the slang match up with the culture and also make sense? I've read some atrocious attempts at slang in Art School. It was like they learned slang through descriptions of B-movies

Unless your character pretty much is a dictionary, even well-spoken people tend to end sentences with prepositions.))

[Imalyose]

I_Write_Ivre

Imalyose

Though once again, I must ask if you are including intentional grammar and spelling mistakes used in quotes? For example, this story I read about the woes of some black girl and her drug dealing boyfriend. In order to show how uneducated the characters were the author included the way they pronounced the words. I can't remember any examples, but I know Mary-Janice Davidson (an author who asked the question "what would happen if a mary sue was confronted with a mary sue situation, yet people had realistic responses to her" and came up with Betsy the Vampire Queen) uses "gawd" instead of "god". Things like that. Stories where it would be more distracting for the characters to speak well, than to include misspellings.))

It'd depend. Does the slang match up with the culture and also make sense? I've read some atrocious attempts at slang in Art School. It was like they learned slang through descriptions of B-movies

Unless your character pretty much is a dictionary, even well-spoken people tend to end sentences with prepositions.))

((that's something that bothers me. I'm in America. I assume you are too? HOW COME OUR SCHOOLS DON'T TEACH GRAMMAR OUTSIDE OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOL? I was an english major in college before dropping out due to $$. At the uni I went to, we never went over it. When terms outside of "adjective and adverb" were mentioned in class, everyone had to get a dictionary. The other day, I realized I had been saying "pronoun" when I was talking about "proper nouns". I adore fanfiction and amateur work. The grammar makes me want to cry, though.
I suppose that slang can only be said to be correct on a case by case basis. There is no definitive rule. Except for like you said to make sure it matches the culture. The first time I saw this thread, years ago, I saw someone who wrote "If most of your characters have normal names like 'rachel' then don't throw in the random character with a name like 'cornohopitis'" or something like that. Same idea, I guess.))



Always post your first draft. Never correct it. If someone offers to critique it for you, turn them down. Your stories need SPONTANEITY!


Use as many commas as possible. I do this all the time ((sad thing is, that last part isn't a lie. I do use them all the time. -angst-))

[I_Write_Ivre]

Imalyose

HOW COME OUR SCHOOLS DON'T TEACH GRAMMAR OUTSIDE OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

((Presumably because you're supposed to remember what you learned after grammar school. Or did I not understand the question right?))

Always post your first draft. Never correct it. If someone offers to critique it for you, turn them down. Your stories need SPONTANEITY!


Pragraphs g

owherever. Samewith.spacesand.periods

[Imalyose]

I_Write_Ivre

Imalyose

HOW COME OUR SCHOOLS DON'T TEACH GRAMMAR OUTSIDE OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

((Presumably because you're supposed to remember what you learned after grammar school. Or did I not understand the question right?))

Always post your first draft. Never correct it. If someone offers to critique it for you, turn them down. Your stories need SPONTANEITY!

Pragraphs g

owherever. Samewith.spacesand.periods((how dare they presume we have brains. That was their greatest mistake. In this thread, I like you, in the other thread, I despise you. My poor emotions. alas I have to go now anyways. I've spent four hours on gaia. Nice to meet you kinda?))



((before I leave- does anyone else get excited when they find a mistake in a published book? Or am I the only one?))

[I_Write_Ivre]

Did someone point out you don't know everything? What a damned troll! burn them alive!

[1upMushroomCloud]

When you have to have a song in your story, be sure to write ALL the lyrics for it, and have an entire melody and tune accompaniment for it. Don't worry about not being able to convey all of this effectively to your audience.

[I_Write_Ivre]

1upMushroomCloud

When you have to have a song in your story, be sure to write ALL the lyrics for it, and have an entire melody and tune accompaniment for it. Don't worry about not being able to convey all of this effectively to your audience.

Or bringing the rest of the story to a grinding halt.

[marshmallowcreampie]

All characters have to be white unless their race is either relevant to the plot, or the character has traits that warrant making them a racial stereotype.