So we can stop having this debate now.

[Marokia]

Considering the fact that they don't even have to go through publishing agents anymore... This may stop even being a problem. But considerably...

There is a difference between raw talent and refined talent. Just saying. If they have enough refined talent, then sure whatevers.

Raw talents is just that, raw. You can do a lot with it, but until the polish, grease, and building actually happens, they may not get enough to work with.

[Miramelle]

I sometimes wonder if people who use their age as a selling point think that publishing works the same way as a certain subset of the music industry- where appearance, youth and marketing can make you famous (for a given amount of famous) with little skill (and a damn fine manager). In writing, there is no way to be "the next Justin Bieber", since your abilities have to speak for themselves. Well, usually. Sometimes appealing to teenage fantasies can subtitute, but anyways- Age can be a marketing tactic (yes, thank you Eragon, I know), but there needs to be something to back it up. Let's face it, there is no autotune for writing.

[Phyla89]

In my opinion, there are kids doing everything else in the world(singing, acting, painting, dancing, preaching sermons, inventing things, fighting in wars) so I don't see why getting published is so off limits. Also, Amelia Atwater-Rhodes.

[Phyla89]

Miramelle

I sometimes wonder if people who use their age as a selling point think that publishing works the same way as a certain subset of the music industry- where appearance, youth and marketing can make you famous (for a given amount of famous) with little skill (and a damn fine manager). In writing, there is no way to be "the next Justin Bieber", since your abilities have to speak for themselves. Well, usually. Sometimes appealing to teenage fantasies can subtitute, but anyways- Age can be a marketing tactic (yes, thank you Eragon, I know), but there needs to be something to back it up. Let's face it, there is no autotune for writing.

Yeah...but there are plenty of teen singers who can actually sing and don't need auto tune. Like the chick from this season's American Idol.

[Kairi Nightingale]

Phyla89

In my opinion, there are kids doing everything else in the world(singing, acting, painting, dancing, preaching sermons, inventing things, fighting in wars) so I don't see why getting published is so off limits. Also, Amelia Atwater-Rhodes.

You're right, it's not. The problem is that many don't actually do the proper research in making a piece or publishing it. Hence, many kids miss out on important information and end up losing out or coming short all the while going in with high expectations.

[Miramelle]

Phyla89

Miramelle

I sometimes wonder if people who use their age as a selling point think that publishing works the same way as a certain subset of the music industry- where appearance, youth and marketing can make you famous (for a given amount of famous) with little skill (and a damn fine manager). In writing, there is no way to be "the next Justin Bieber", since your abilities have to speak for themselves. Well, usually. Sometimes appealing to teenage fantasies can subtitute, but anyways- Age can be a marketing tactic (yes, thank you Eragon, I know), but there needs to be something to back it up. Let's face it, there is no autotune for writing.

Yeah...but there are plenty of teen singers who can actually sing and don't need auto tune. Like the chick from this season's American Idol.

Oh, they're out there, but there's way more who aren't willing to put in the hours and hours of practice necessary. Why bother, when there's a computer program that can correct your key and smooth out your flaws?
In that same vein, there are young writers with talent. The ones who expect a free pass because of their youth are comparable to the second group of singers. "Look at me! I'm young and pretty!" is no substitute for talent in either field.
Thankfully there isn't (yet) a program you can feed your writing into and have it spit out a polished if bland result completely unrecognizable compared to the original. Sadly, that's what autotuning has become- a crutch.

[The Phoenix Rises Again]

Kairi Nightingale

You're right, it's not. The problem is that many don't actually do the proper research in making a piece or publishing it. Hence, many kids miss out on important information and end up losing out or coming short all the while going in with high expectations.

This may be a 'internet was new' thing, but as a kid, I had no idea about publishing save for a big book that just listed publishers and blurbs about what genres they took and if they accepted solicited stuff and how to contact them. That was it. no one mentioned SFWA until I got here and by then I was halfway through college.

[Kairi Nightingale]

The Phoenix Rises Again

Kairi Nightingale

You're right, it's not. The problem is that many don't actually do the proper research in making a piece or publishing it. Hence, many kids miss out on important information and end up losing out or coming short all the while going in with high expectations.

This may be a 'internet was new' thing, but as a kid, I had no idea about publishing save for a big book that just listed publishers and blurbs about what genres they took and if they accepted solicited stuff and how to contact them. That was it. no one mentioned SFWA until I got here and by then I was halfway through college.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was speaking strictly for my generation. We have the internet so there's no excuse as to why they can't look things up. I mean, I'm 18 but I started taking writing seriously at 16. I learned everything I know about writing from the internet and making connections with people. And even now, I'm still learning new things and looking up stuff as I go along. It wasn't until later that I picked up a couple of writing books but at this point, it's more for editing purposes for when I'll print out the hard copies of my stuff later on.

Point being, I'm in the same group as them and I was smart enough to do it. Why can't they?

[Miz Lina]

Marokia

Considering the fact that they don't even have to go through publishing agents anymore...

If you want a large publishing house, you do... self-publication notwithstanding, without an agent small-press companies are your only shot without an agent, and those places usually only take on one or two debut novels per year, if that.

There is not currently one, that I know of, large American publishing house left that accepts unagented submissions.

[Cogent Dream]

It's funny because Eragon wasn't published because an agent was amazed by his young age and skill. A published writer (forgot his name) bought it for his kid off the street and his kid said he liked it so the guy helped him get the book published.

Eragon would be a silly example for kids to use.

But yes, using your age to get pity is hilarious.

[I am The Compendium]

Kairi Nightingale

Point being, I'm in the same group as them and I was smart enough to do it. Why can't they?

It's a question I've always wondered. Why use gaia as google when it takes longer? I can understand 'Hey, I read this thing and I'm confused' but not even trying baffles me.

[Kairi Nightingale]

I am The Compendium

Kairi Nightingale

Point being, I'm in the same group as them and I was smart enough to do it. Why can't they?

It's a question I've always wondered. Why use gaia as google when it takes longer? I can understand 'Hey, I read this thing and I'm confused' but not even trying baffles me.

I've wondered that, too. There are plenty of good sources out there that will give you all the information you could need. Why ask a bunch of strangers on gaia as your first option?

Which is not to say that I don't learn interesting things watching this forum here. Or that I wouldn't look for opinions or help here if needed. Many people on here have much to contribute to a conversation, such as yourself. But having a basic knowledge of the subject before hand via research could make things a lot easier.

[I_Write_Ivre]

Kairi Nightingale

Which is not to say that I don't learn interesting things watching this forum here. Or that I wouldn't look for opinions or help here if needed. Many people on here have much to contribute to a conversation, such as yourself. But having a basic knowledge of the subject before hand via research could make things a lot easier.

I think the lack of research stuff goes along with the ego thing, which results in 'if you're corrected, it means you were insulted.' Have you seen how many holes in plots and logic are backed up in the WF when it comes to simple stuff? I've noticed it's almost always about ego (and that usually it's accompanied by claiming being corrected as insults).

[Kairi Nightingale]

I_Write_Ivre

I think the lack of research stuff goes along with the ego thing, which results in 'if you're corrected, it means you were insulted.' Have you seen how many holes in plots and logic are backed up in the WF when it comes to simple stuff? I've noticed it's almost always about ego (and that usually it's accompanied by claiming being corrected as insults).

Yeah, but I wonder if that's really just an internet thing that it's a lot more noticeable. At least, I have yet to meet someone in real life who honestly thought they were never wrong or wasn't humbled when they found themselves corrected. I have to say, being on gaia has really opened my eyes in that respect. (Like that one guy who kept saying that we were disrespecting his opinions when all we were doing was stating facts.... Seriously, what?)

It could be the fact that they are used to dealing with people in real life who just accept anything they say or do. Then when they come on to specialized forums like this one, they are caught off guard by people who turn out to be much more experienced in what they thought was their specialty. They can't take being corrected because that would mean everything they had thought and stood for up to that point had been wrong. It would mean changing everything they had built up to that point and so instead of risking the humiliation of telling everyone "I was wrong." they try to justify it with anything they can come up with from "These are just my opinions! Stop being mean!" to "What do you know? I bet you aren't even a real writer!".

[I_Write_Ivre]

Kairi Nightingale

Yeah, but I wonder if that's really just an internet thing that it's a lot more noticeable. At least, I have yet to meet someone in real life who honestly thought they were never wrong or wasn't humbled when they found themselves corrected. I have to say, being on gaia has really opened my eyes in that respect. (Like that one guy who kept saying that we were disrespecting his opinions when all we were doing was stating facts.... Seriously, what?)
I don't think it's an internet thing.

It could be the fact that they are used to dealing with people in real life who just accept anything they say or do. Then when they come on to specialized forums like this one, they are caught off guard by people who turn out to be much more experienced in what they thought was their specialty. They can't take being corrected because that would mean everything they had thought and stood for up to that point had been wrong. It would mean changing everything they had built up to that point and so instead of risking the humiliation of telling everyone "I was wrong." they try to justify it with anything they can come up with from "These are just my opinions! Stop being mean!" to "What do you know? I bet you aren't even a real writer!".

Frankly, if I am wrong (and I have been), I do apologize. I think it actually builds one up than down.

I don't think it's an internet thing given the crazy teachers I've found (most didn't frequent the internet and a few were technophobes about it) over the last twenty years. To me, I think it's a feeling of safety. They couldn't be fired easily, they felt they had positions of 'who's going to listen to you?' and 'I can ruin you if I want'. As a teacher, I've noticed it's a result of coddling children. The number one reason new teachers quit is parents who pretty much act like internet trolls in the teachers' faces.

You can't grab a kid if they're running around the room. You can't say 'you need to study or you'll get a bad grade' (this is considered a threat). You can't tell them to say 'sorry' as a demand. You can't make them go to the principle's office (they can sit there and continue t disrupt class until you get security--if there is security. A teacher can't admit she was raped in a discussion about clinical depression.