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On another forum I frequent, people often say women like flowery, emotions when it comes to steamy bedroom (or where have you) scenes, and men like descriptions of action and what goes where how.

However, save for those who were thriteen and new to the genre, I've never heard a female express this. I've heard from online strangers, friends, and random people at Yaoicon--all female--express they like the 'hardcore', more details and better quality artwork there of, the better.

Is there an actual distinction between what the sexes like and those I've encountered are a strange fringe group, or are those who say there is a distinction people whose perceptions of fans people who need to catch up to the current century?
Most of the women at work that I know tend to enjoy either as much. One can look at success in series such as Twilight and compare it to something such as J.R. Ward's stuff to see what older women like.

Twilight, Vampire Academy, and Divergent are basically soft core for younger girls because our society is tiered in such a way that girls of that age are expected to be virginal and inexperienced until marriage. So there's lots of longing and wanting but also self restraint or things that keep them from sealing the deal.

Older women read Twilight because they're emotionally longing for a man to be obsessed with them because they're unfulfilled in marriage but read things like 50 shades of Gray and Sookie Stackhouse to tend the more physical needs.

There is a time to be gentle and a time to be rough, and I'd suspect that the general consensus is a little of each depending upon mood. But one also has to be careful not to be flowery to the point of ridiculousness or coarse to the point of ruining the moment.

I find my boyfriend tends to read more of the humor rom/com type fanfictions whereas I find myself preferring something with a little teeth but probably for different reasons. Most of what I find is poorly written and is good for a laugh, especially when read in my "Man" voice...

Best Loki fan fiction line ever , "You'll be grateful for my invasion!" cat_talk2hand cat_sweatdrop cat_rofl

My boyfriend is the more feminine of the two of us though... He made me sit through The Proposal... But he also got me to watch Sword Art Online which has some very well written erotica due to the fact that they're working with an established couple in the series that seems genuinely loving.

In general, men tend to go for direct visuals rather than to read erotica. Many women are still ashamed to go after the more visual media, and stick to reading as it seems more respectable to them. It also allows them to put themselves as the characters rather than feel inadequate to an actress.

Although in practice, I've found the things I have written describing the sensory portions tend to be the most well received.

As more people have access to writing and there's less guilting over sexuality, the less flowery things will be. If you're interested in historical erotica though, Fanny Hill I believe is the first widely published work written in the 16th century... My memory may be a bit off. It was written by a man, but features a female protagonist who is actually quite admirable in some regards. It's equal parts flowery and risque.

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Umbre

Although in practice, I've found the things I have written describing the sensory portions tend to be the most well received.

As more people have access to writing and there's less guilting over sexuality, the less flowery things will be. If you're interested in historical erotica though,

I'm being told the opposite for the last week. Professional writers are telling me that the female market for non-flowery stuff is too small to bother with and guilt won't be done away with when it comes to women.

After more than five people telling me 'women DO want flowery writing, moreso today' (verbatim), I'm getting extremely confused.


I don't think there is such a black and white distinction between the two. I know some women who love the 'hardcore' kind, with as much action and drama as possible, and some men who prefer the 'flowery' kind of romance. It is all down to personal preference really!

For me, it's all about the characters. If you have two characters who don't really fit in that kind of way (i.e. Hannibal and Will Graham, I just can't see it!) I prefer the level of heavy petting to be zero to not much because I just can't picture it, and it all feels a bit 'wrong'. However, some characters have such amazing chemistry that the more interaction I see of them, the better!
I_Write_Ivre

I'm being told the opposite for the last week. Professional writers are telling me that the female market for non-flowery stuff is too small to bother with and guilt won't be done away with when it comes to women.

After more than five people telling me 'women DO want flowery writing, moreso today' (verbatim), I'm getting extremely confused.


In a previous generation, they would be correct. But you'll want to consider the demographic ( age wise at least) that you're going after. The world at large still believes women love pink, are horrible at math, must buy anything on sale, and that all women have an unhealthy need to buy shoes. I'm in no way stating a feminist dogma - this is the patriarchy - message, but there is a fair amount of preconceived ideal of what women's preferences are.

Older women read erotica to fulfill fantasies that they feel they are no longer able to have. It's why married women ( along with teens) were so drawn to Twilight. They want the idealized relationship either with the ultimate prince or the ultimate mysterious broken bad boy whom they can fix, with plenty of drama. You'll find that these often start out with a main female protagonist who is perceived as chaste / inexperienced and often very bland so that a woman can project herself onto her. This allows her to reimagine what may have been a very awkward or uncomfortable start to her own life as a sexual human, especially after she's become somewhat comfortable with that side.

However are also the more liberated, often younger females who are a little more comfortable with the sexual side of their personality whether through being taught a healthy self image or haven't had religious dogma with a negative tone regarding women/ sexuality ingrained into them. My friend Niki is a great example of this. She reads the flowery stuff but finds it a bit boring. She generally gets more out of reading amateur erotic fanfiction with liberal uses of the 4 letter words as well as the more eloquent terms.

So ultimately you're basically dealing with the love and lust and as I noted before that fine line between too literate to be sexy or too vulgar not to be humorous. If anything intimacy is the key. It's very hard to keep a passionate heat going for the entire length of a book, much like in real life, without a few breaks in between.

Dangerous Enabler

I'm going to laugh until I puke.

I write a lot of erotica. I have a friend who supplements her income writing erotica. Most of my writer friends write fairly hardcore porn at times.

It varies by type of story, I think: people want scenes consistent with theme. If it's all fluff and first love and w/e, tender euphemistic scenes are probably what people want. If it's an edgy adventure story with no punches pulled anywhere else, a fairly explicit sex scene with fewer euphemisms and more descriptions of what went where and how hard are probably more appropriate. And people of all ages and genders will read all of those, just probably in different moods. Distinctions as to who reads what genre of story are outdated and probably sexist, like that whole thing in India where female authors get books with red covers and draped saris and people who are still and men (and women who have won sufficient awards) get blue covers with people in motion.

Also, there is no such ******** thing as too literate to be sexy. If something is too literary to be sexy, it's because people quintessentially hate litfic anyway because litfic is where fun goes to die.
phantomkitsune

Also, there is no such ******** thing as too literate to be sexy. If something is too literary to be sexy, it's because people quintessentially hate litfic anyway because litfic is where fun goes to die.


There is... Could you imagine someone doing a J.R.R.Tolkien-esque description of a vulva that goes on for about 3 pages, just describing the most minute details of it? I've seen stuff like that. Stuff that's so overly dressed that by that point you have to sit back and wonder if it's a medical guide or a scene of love making.
I hate to say it so bluntly, but I feel bored when I read a majority of erotica written by women (at least from what I've read). It's not direct enough for me. That's not to say that graphic depictions of the act are lacking, but I often see a lot of atmosphere or the feelings surrounding added in. It makes the writing dense, and not in an appealing way. I often have to skim or focus on only one particular paragraph if I'm trying to get off because the rest is adorned with all these other details that I just don't care for, personally.

Erotica written by males (at least the kind I've read) is very direct, usually to the point where it's telling and not showing and that's exactly what I want. I don't care how any of the people participating feel or what's going on in between. I just wanna know about the dirty things they're doing and how they're doing it.

Of course, this is what I've found by reading erotica online on various large archives. I've never read any published erotica that wasn't hentai.

And all of that being said, that certainly doesn't mean either gender is locked into a stereotype when it comes to writing, or should feel pressured to write a certain way.

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phantomkitsune

Also, there is no such ******** thing as too literate to be sexy. If something is too literary to be sexy, it's because people quintessentially hate litfic anyway because litfic is where fun goes to die.


There is... Could you imagine someone doing a J.R.R.Tolkien-esque description of a vulva that goes on for about 3 pages, just describing the most minute details of it? I've seen stuff like that. Stuff that's so overly dressed that by that point you have to sit back and wonder if it's a medical guide or a scene of love making.


Anne Rice is infamous for detail. Yet there was barely ever any description of any anatomy whatsoever other than a lack of c**t in Arabian Sterotype Land. Yet she sill have nearly an entire chapter of some BS philosophy advocating rape and abuse (not BDSM, which is about enjoying what happens and trusting people--the book says that's for virgins).
I_Write_Ivre


Anne Rice is infamous for detail. Yet there was barely ever any description of any anatomy whatsoever other than a lack of c**t in Arabian Sterotype Land. Yet she sill have nearly an entire chapter of some BS philosophy advocating rape and abuse (not BDSM, which is about enjoying what happens and trusting people--the book says that's for virgins).


In the context of the mindset of Lestat, the time he lived in was rife with such a view. So in Anne Rice's defense I don't think she'd necessarily advocate as much as state the effectiveness of rape and brutality at forcing others to submit to you. Bear in mind the character speaking is not the writer's personal voice.The mentality of an immortal being who has come from an age where women and children were commodities to be traded and indulgence was limited only by one's pocket change to pursue it is not necessarily the moral compass of the author. They're not the norm now, but bear in mind it's something that in other times and places has been given a pass due to it's "effectiveness".

Even the Bible in (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) : If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

There's still a rather booming human trafficking issue in the modern world, as there has been for centuries. As in Victorian London as in some countries today, virgins are sold to men with venereal disease as they believe that laying with a virgin will cure them.

That very same trade has been romanticized, to bring things back to topic. One of the oldest retold erotic stories around is of a young virgin sold to a sheik who rapes her, only for her to find she really enjoys it. It's part of the control fantasy thing that has to do with the fact that some women really enjoy a very dominant male ( usually closer to their fertile period of their cycle), and likely like the idea of what they would imagine to be a vigorous performance.

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Umbre


That very same trade has been romanticized, to bring things back to topic. One of the oldest retold erotic stories around is of a young virgin sold to a sheik who rapes her, only for her to find she really enjoys it. It's part of the control fantasy thing that has to do with the fact that some women really enjoy a very dominant male ( usually closer to their fertile period of their cycle), and likely like the idea of what they would imagine to be a vigorous performance.

I thought it was just a fantasy about having such an awesome p***s that it could give anyone a mind-blowing orgasm under any condition.
I_Write_Ivre

I thought it was just a fantasy about having such an awesome p***s that it could give anyone a mind-blowing orgasm under any condition.


Many versions of the story are told from the girl's perspective, covering where she's from and how she gets kidnapped. So it's mainly a story of a powerful, dominant man coming in and conquering her. You find some throwbacks to this in Twilight too. There's a powerful, raw beast of a man who wants the protagonist. Rather than taking Bella by force, Edward breaks a freaking wall to force himself away. And then later on their wedding night he breaks a freaking bed because of the built up tension ( I suppose 90 years a virgin does that).

It's all about the forceful, physicality of the motion in those situations - the bodily exertion. It's all about being a strong, brutal man when the time calls for it - but a vulnerable wounded soldier to get those heart strings going in things like that. The King and I is another case, albeit with much less copulation.

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Umbre

Many versions of the story are told from the girl's perspective, covering where she's from and how she gets kidnapped. So it's mainly a story of a powerful, dominant man coming in and conquering her. You find some throwbacks to this in Twilight too. There's a powerful, raw beast of a man who wants the protagonist. Rather than taking Bella by force, Edward breaks a freaking wall to force himself away. And then later on their wedding night he breaks a freaking bed because of the built up tension ( I suppose 90 years a virgin does that).

It's all about the forceful, physicality of the motion in those situations - the bodily exertion. It's all about being a strong, brutal man when the time calls for it - but a vulnerable wounded soldier to get those heart strings going in things like that. The King and I is another case, albeit with much less copulation.


Not my cup of tea, especially when written in a flowery way.

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phantomkitsune

Also, there is no such ******** thing as too literate to be sexy. If something is too literary to be sexy, it's because people quintessentially hate litfic anyway because litfic is where fun goes to die.


There is... Could you imagine someone doing a J.R.R.Tolkien-esque description of a vulva that goes on for about 3 pages, just describing the most minute details of it? I've seen stuff like that. Stuff that's so overly dressed that by that point you have to sit back and wonder if it's a medical guide or a scene of love making.
Literate means able to read. So . . . uh. No. The rest of your argument is inapplicable to the dig I was making at your poor word choice. You are essentially agreeing with me except using a concrete example instead of dismissing an entire genre that is prone to that particular error.
phantomkitsune
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phantomkitsune

Also, there is no such ******** thing as too literate to be sexy. If something is too literary to be sexy, it's because people quintessentially hate litfic anyway because litfic is where fun goes to die.


There is... Could you imagine someone doing a J.R.R.Tolkien-esque description of a vulva that goes on for about 3 pages, just describing the most minute details of it? I've seen stuff like that. Stuff that's so overly dressed that by that point you have to sit back and wonder if it's a medical guide or a scene of love making.
Literate means able to read. So . . . uh. No. The rest of your argument is inapplicable to the dig I was making at your poor word choice. You are essentially agreeing with me except using a concrete example instead of dismissing an entire genre that is prone to that particular error.


You may find it interesting that in English words may have subtle meanings that are a little beyond what the common usage is. The usage I was going for is outlined in Merriam-Websters - "educated, cultured" or even the "lucid,polished" variant. This is often as those who are capable of reading, in the past, were often those of means and culture. Ultimately, your issue should be with the nuances of language, not my decision to use it.

Please refer to the link if you feel that it is necessary to question this as my wording is taken verbatim from their site. Although I think you may find other sources that are likely to second this.

I suppose the real question is why you feel the need to curse and act defensively. This isn't exactly an emotionally charged issue. It's academic, not political. Quite honestly, I have no desire to quibble over the matter.

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