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Satire. It's a looking glass into the society of the time in which any given piece of Satire is written. 1984 exposed Orwell's fears of increasingly totalitarian political policy. Works by people like Hiaasen and Pratchett point out societal flaws or errors or just poke fun at society in general by satirizing it in a humourous manner. So my question is, what is it that makes a work a piece of satire? And how is a successful satirization of society told apart from an unsuccessful (and I don't just mean that one is published and the other isn't.)?
1984 is satire? sweatdrop
Yeah. Orwell, or Eric Blair, was attempting to point out the errors of war and a totalitarian state, as well as his concern for the direction in which politics was heading.
But I thought satire was supposed to be funny? (I still haven't finished it but it seems more like sci-fi to me.)
A successful Satire is, in my opinion, one which gets the point of the Satire across to the reader (Totalitarian = bad for 1984) while also remaining an engaging read. Personally, I love satirical works. The premier satire is, in my humble opinion, American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis.
blue_icicle
But I thought satire was supposed to be funny? (I still haven't finished it but it seems more like sci-fi to me.)


While a lot of today's satire is extremely mirthful (id est, Tim Dorsey, Carl Hiaasen, and Terry Pratchett), it's not exactly a prerequisite. Examples of satire that aren't overly humourous include, but are not limited to: 1984, "A Modest Proposal," Jennifer Government, and Brave New World. A work doesn't have to cease being science fiction to be satire. Satire typically can span across any genre.

Magnus, I haven't read American Psycho but I intend to. I'm assuming it's a satire on either crime, or the treatment of mental illnesses?
Apropos
blue_icicle
But I thought satire was supposed to be funny? (I still haven't finished it but it seems more like sci-fi to me.)


While a lot of today's satire is extremely mirthful (id est, Tim Dorsey, Carl Hiaasen, and Terry Pratchett), it's not exactly a prerequisite. Examples of satire that aren't overly humourous include, but are not limited to: 1984, "A Modest Proposal," Jennifer Government, and Brave New World. A work doesn't have to cease being science fiction to be satire. Satire typically can span across any genre.

Ooookay. 3nodding Thanks.
Apropos
Magnus, I haven't read American Psycho but I intend to. I'm assuming it's a satire on either crime, or the treatment of mental illnesses?


Actually, it's a deft satire about the Yuppie Wall Street Sub-Culture and the loss of identity that follows with. It is not for the faint of heart, to say the very least.
Apropos
blue_icicle
But I thought satire was supposed to be funny? (I still haven't finished it but it seems more like sci-fi to me.)


While a lot of today's satire is extremely mirthful (id est, Tim Dorsey, Carl Hiaasen, and Terry Pratchett), it's not exactly a prerequisite. Examples of satire that aren't overly humourous include, but are not limited to: 1984, "A Modest Proposal," Jennifer Government, and Brave New World. A work doesn't have to cease being science fiction to be satire. Satire typically can span across any genre.

Magnus, I haven't read American Psycho but I intend to. I'm assuming it's a satire on either crime, or the treatment of mental illnesses?

*foams* I love "A Modest Proposal". Love it. I can't remember the titles of any of the satire I've read (other than 1984) right now, but I know that I really enjoy them. Ooh, Snow Crash was really good. Definately very sci fi/ cyberpunk, and very good.
A work of satire is made, in my opinion, when an issue is taken beyond logical ends but not overdone. When a satire becomes overdone, it resembles a Flame in many ways.

For example, examine Johnathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels. This work is a satire in many aspects, in fact all aspects, of British society. working through many different sub-stories, it pulls and tugs in small ways a the limits of believabily to make points.

For example, the the Whinnies and the Yahoos. This is a discussion of what exactly encompasses "civilized" virtures and what are "brutal" ones, and how the brutal ones are always present, no matter what we may want, even in "civilized" society. Lilliput, the land where our hero is a giant among pigmies (i think... or is it the reverse?), talks about the sheer stupidity behind the moral reasoning behind war, and by extension, many other morally justified things. <insert name here>, where our hero is a pygmy among giants, illustrates the ability of a society to operate without police forces, laws, intimidation, or violence. All this attacked British society, but all did it tactfully, without sounding cynical and sarcastic.

And that, friends, is the true difficulty behind satire. It can be very, very good if correctly written- that is, if you tug believablility just enough, if you emphasize only one satirical aspect at a time, etc. It can also be very bad, if the writer simply decides to flame, whine, complain, be overly sarcastic, etc. Walking that fine line is not easy, but what results can be either bright or grim; if it sticks in people's minds, it's probably a good place to start.
Magnus Cthulhu
Apropos
Magnus, I haven't read American Psycho but I intend to. I'm assuming it's a satire on either crime, or the treatment of mental illnesses?


Actually, it's a deft satire about the Yuppie Wall Street Sub-Culture and the loss of identity that follows with. It is not for the faint of heart, to say the very least.


Sounds even better now that I know that. Almost reminds me of another story I heard about, although the name eludes me at the moment.

DreamElf, thanks for your extremely detailed and well-thought out answer to my questions. I'd have to tend to agree with you on most of your points.
Apropos
Satire. It's a looking glass into the society of the time in which any given piece of Satire is written. 1984 exposed Orwell's fears of increasingly totalitarian political policy. Works by people like Hiaasen and Pratchett point out societal flaws or errors or just poke fun at society in general by satirizing it in a humourous manner. So my question is, what is it that makes a work a piece of satire? And how is a successful satirization of society told apart from an unsuccessful (and I don't just mean that one is published and the other isn't.)?
It seems to me that there are two types of satires. The first, like 1984, which exaggerate society but in a way which is supposedly possible. The second would be, maybe (not a very good example for this but...) Gulliver's Travels, in which certain aspects of society are exagerated. I suppose the important thing for both types, is that a satire should be on one hand unbelievable - in that it isn't true for day to day life, but then again should be possible. Ie. The exagerations should be understandable.
"Animal Farm" by George Orwell has to be my favorite. It's about the russian revolution and how the after was not so much different from the before. In this one, all the characters are animals who decide to overthrow the farm. I like how the animals represent different people in the revolution. The last phase has to be the best in the book!
Satire is a beautiful, beautiful thing. I am an avid Prachett fan, as well as a fan of satire in general, and I'm disappointed in the Gaia populace for not mentioning two of the BIGGEST names in popular satire.

First off, Mark Twain. Sameul L. Clemens. Com'on, people! His stuff is some of the best satire out there; I love Prachett mostly because he reminds me so very much of Twain's style of satire. Mark Twain's satire is a great deal more subtle than Prachett's, but it's equally beautiful, there's no doubting that.

Second off, and I actually don't blame you too much for this one, because many people don't realize that this peice is satirical: The Wizard of Oz. Yes, folks, everybody's favorite musical was actually written originally as a satire story. Oz was a reference to a particular period in American history when there was some turmoil with our currency, and how it should be issued and controlled (don't know the exact dates, but a google search on when it was written might pinpoint it, if you're curious). Each of the characters referred to a particular political faction in regards to this issue - Silver Standard, Gold Standard, etc. There is, of course, much more to it than these vague outlines, but I'm drawing this from memory; I have notes on it somewhere, but they're not immediately accessible. ;p Gotta love advanced literature courses.

Satire is so much fun. I wish I could write it.
Apropos
Satire. It's a looking glass into the society of the time in which any given piece of Satire is written. 1984 exposed Orwell's fears of increasingly totalitarian political policy. Works by people like Hiaasen and Pratchett point out societal flaws or errors or just poke fun at society in general by satirizing it in a humourous manner.


so where do you draw the line between science fiction and satire? by your definition, they seem to be the same thing.

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