How do I keep my character from becoming a mary sue?

[Lady Muckaduck]

I have a character, Katya, a half elf half human, who I use a lot in my work, I'm planning on having her as the main character of my novel I'm working on, but my main problem is this...

The story involves her being sent to earth for her own protection, all half caste children are being slaughtered. She was going to be brought back at the age of 12 but a miscalculation (the years on the planet are longer) means she's actually 17 and the person she is betrothed to is only a year older than her. She has to deal with an entirely new world, not being allowed to wear pants (all skirts all the time) and finding out her father isnt dead like they all assumed, but hiding because he's a chicken. And an assassin has been hired to kill the royal family, the prince of which is her betrothed...(her mother was a duchess but ran away with an elf, but the queen remained friends and organised the betrothal - yes cliched but its necessary)

I like my plot, it needs some work, but I like it, my problem is the fact that all the main characters like Katya without any problems, despite the fact she is terrified of them and for a most part wants to get away from them. I don't want to have them hating her, but they are making my character a mary sue, how can I make her normal without changing the plot too much?

Can anybody suggest something, preferably without being too insulting.

[wolfbynight]

prescription: faults and lots of them

make her obsessive or depressed or she talks too much or all three
the reason all your characters like is her is because she is digustingly likable. the reader, i would venture to say most readers do not fall in love with characters for the saintliness, but rather their sins and consequently, the character's growth in spite of this sin or flaw.


do you have a villain in mind for the story? does the villain like your protagonist? if so, you have a mary sue. you will need to operate right away. quit making her your ideal character and start making her a real character. best o luck

[Moths]

Don't forget to make them fat!

[wolfbynight]

Ebalicious

Don't forget to make them fat!

i can't believe i forgot that one. yes, you must make her fat; and a man

[Rayinte]

I know you don't want people to dislike your character, but it's just not possible for someone to be universally liked by everyone. Even a flawless person has enemies--people who are envious or believe that the "flawlessness" hides some great evil.

Heck, there are petty souls out there who dislike a person just because that person is adored by everyone else. Don't have your characters treat the main character how you want them to be treating her... they should have the right to behave toward her according to the personalities you built for them. A selfish, vain lady wouldn't look beyond her own needs to become the best friend of a newcomer who might be competition... unless of course it was in an attempt to bring down the newcomer to make herself seem better by comparison. confused

[clarion]

Think I'll be serious for once...sort of.

Let's break down what you've given us about the character.

• Halfbreed pariah
  This can be tricky to work with. The outcast halfbreed is a really common device/cliche, because it's easy to create sympathy. Oh nos! She is all alone and totally different, much like how the average teen feels! I'm not saying to eliminate this, because sometimes it's good to bring in some easy sympathy. Just be aware of what it is. Also, if she's some kind of outcast because of being a halfbreed, how come she returns and ends up being engaged to a prince and everybody loving her?
  
• The age thing.
  How important is it that there is a miscalculation about the age. If you're a powerful race able to fling people to different worlds, are you really going to make a glaring error like not knowing time works differently there? If she's 17, just make her 17 and move on.
  
• Stranger in a strange land.
  Ok, this is a very classic plot device--being in a strange, unfamiliar place. It means instant conflict, with the character trying to figure out how everything works and meet new people and whatnot. I'd say this is probably the strongest element in your little summary, because if you took everything else out, you could still make a story based on this one thing.
  
• Fashion rebellion!
  Making a tomboy wear a skirt is IMO one of the cheesiest, Mary-Sueish cliches you can throw in. OMG discrimination against women! I'd really like to see a character actually LIKE wearing dresses for once.
  

I don't have time to deal with the plot things right now and this is mostly focusing on the character anyway. Just think about each element of her character and WHY it's really necessary. Also consider how each one works together. If you've got something contradictory, consider eliminating one and simplifying her character. (Gah, I gotta go *runs away*)

[Lady Muckaduck]

I dont exactly have a protagonist, my main character isn't the hero type with an enemy she's just a scared little girl whose got caught up in a political plot to kill people.

she isn't fat, mainly because I based her body on mine (okay i admit it, i drew her first) and because I'm skinny with largish breasts she is too. She's not perfect, at all, she's not pretty, she's weird looking and rude to everybody who tries to be nice to her. I guess they could be just nice to her because they feel sorry for her, hmm, i have one or two characters who I could use to make her life living hell, admirers of the prince and a few courtiers...the royal family would have a duty, as she is a vague relative, to be polite, but that doesn't mean they like her...cept for the queen, but she likes everybody.

Thanks for the tips, I'll definately be keeping them in mind.

EDIT: I never said she was a tomboy. But how would most girls react to suddenly being forced to wear a skirt, i spend most of my time in jeans or pants but that doesnt make me a tomboy.
She doesn't get sympathy because she is a stranger, because she isnt, she was born on the world (i dont have a name for it yet) so people just expect her to get on with it.
people discriminate against a race of people all the time, the jews, the kosovans etc... and for a most part they had no good reason.

And I didn't ask for people to examine my plot and tell me how cliche'd it is, i asked for advice on how to keep her from becomming a mary sue.
sorry if i sound hostile but I'd really prefer it if people just stuck to the question at hand.

[Rayinte]

Like I said, if you don't want her to be a mary sue, people have to dislike her for some reason or another...

If you seriously want to avoid a mary sue, do NOT BASE HER ON YOURSELF. If you base a character *directly* off yourself, then you identify with her too much and you don't want anything bad to happen to her. She becomes the "ideal you," and through her, you give yourself everything you always wanted.

I'm guilty of Mary Sue's in my past, almost everyone is... but after a while I realized that the characters that I was creating to be the ideal me really had nothing in common with the real me--how could they? The real me doesn't bother with looking pretty, so I don't. The real me doesn't bother being super nice to everyone because for the most part, people I meet are complete asses. I found that the real me was a lot more interesting than the characters I was making up, because of the conflicts in my life, because of the flaws, because I'm not some shallow, vapid, simpering thing. confused

I treat my characters as independant people. I build the framework of their personalities, and design their histories, and from there, I let them develop their own attitudes and perspectives, and I try to make sure that my own opinions don't influence his process. Some of my best characters are the ones who'd I'd instantly loathe if I met them in person.

[Lady Muckaduck]

I guess I didn't explain my plot very well, mainly because I didn't feel that was important, as I was asking about keeping her from becoming a mary sue.

Okay here goes. (basic history)

When my character was born the world was under rule from the father of the now ruling king, like many people he had unfair prejudices, vague prophecies had been made, none of them relating to the story, but like a lot of people he saw things that weren't there, in particular a race becomming more powerful than the humans. Not liking this he started punishing elves and particular their children, especially if they were half breeds, he felt that a mixture of the human and the elf would create a powerful race that would destroy him. He was wrong, it was a false prophecy that would never come true.

The civilisation isn't powerful enough to fling children through space, but as the queen to be had decided her cousins child and her child would be king and queen together she enlisted the help of a wizard who sent the child to another world. (a world they had no knowledge of except for the fact it had humans in.) sending the child away stripped the wizard of his powers and he lived as a court wizard though he never did magic again.

Just because the old king had a deep rooted prejudice doesn;t mean the people did, in my world the kings word was law, and while some people agreed a majority didn't. But until he died, which he did eleven years after she is sent away, nobody could question him, including his son, who then became king and put a stop to the mindless slaughter.

The age thing was really just a comedy thing, people are expecting a child they can mould and make into the perfect lady, and they get a teenager who doesnt want to become one.
I can easily change that but I'd rather not, I have some great scenes in mind with the queen wanting to braid her hair and the girl not wanting her to do it.

I suppose while she is the main character, the story isn't really about her, its about the assassinations of important people and the royal family sending a few choice people (including her guardian) out to find out who is behind it.

She's just a kind of red herring I suppose, while she's spazzing out the important things will be happening in the background.

[Lady Muckaduck]

Rayinte

Like I said, if you don't want her to be a mary sue, people have to dislike her for some reason or another...

If you seriously want to avoid a mary sue, do NOT BASE HER ON YOURSELF. If you base a character *directly* off yourself, then you identify with her too much and you don't want anything bad to happen to her. She becomes the "ideal you," and through her, you give yourself everything you always wanted.

I'm guilty of Mary Sue's in my past, almost everyone is... but after a while I realized that the characters that I was creating to be the ideal me really had nothing in common with the real me--how could they? The real me doesn't bother with looking pretty, so I don't. The real me doesn't bother being super nice to everyone because for the most part, people I meet are complete asses. I found that the real me was a lot more interesting than the characters I was making up, because of the conflicts in my life, because of the flaws, because I'm not some shallow, vapid, simpering thing. confused

I treat my characters as independant people. I build the framework of their personalities, and design their histories, and from there, I let them develop their own attitudes and perspectives, and I try to make sure that my own opinions don't influence his process. Some of my best characters are the ones who'd I'd instantly loathe if I met them in person.

You misunderstand me, she's nothing like me except for body, which wont even be mentioned in the story.

She has flaws, I was just trying to work out how her new "family" could dislike her for no reason. I think for a most part she wont get on with her betrothed for obvious reasons, she doesn't want to be turned into a lady so she'll argue and fight and nearly kill herself and several others trying to get away from them.

[clarion]

I believe I <i>was</i> answering the question at hand, but if you're not willing to examine the character objectively there's no point in trying to help you.

[Lady Muckaduck]

clarion

I believe I <i>was</i> answering the question at hand, but if you're not willing to examine the character objectively there's no point in trying to help you.

I'm not arguing about my character, I know she needs work, but some of the things you mentioned had nothing to do with her character. I only pointed out that I wanted help with her character not my plot.

But you did mention that you would say something about my plot, that was what I was taking about, not your comments on my character.

[crime in the city v2]

All the things Clarion mentioned are revelant. Half of what makes a Sue a Sue isn't necessarily her personality, but her situation. After all, in Lord of the Rings, a gorgeous, blond, elf with magical powers is no big deal. But if you transplant her into, say, Harry Potter, suddenly she's not just an elf, she's a Mary Sue.

[Davin_Cael]

Lady Muckaduck

I guess I didn't explain my plot very well, mainly because I didn't feel that was important, as I was asking about keeping her from becoming a mary sue.

Okay here goes. (basic history)

When my character was born the world was under rule from the father of the now ruling king, like many people he had unfair prejudices, vague prophecies had been made, none of them relating to the story, but like a lot of people he saw things that weren't there, in particular a race becomming more powerful than the humans. Not liking this he started punishing elves and particular their children, especially if they were half breeds, he felt that a mixture of the human and the elf would create a powerful race that would destroy him. He was wrong, it was a false prophecy that would never come true.

The civilisation isn't powerful enough to fling children through space, but as the queen to be had decided her cousins child and her child would be king and queen together she enlisted the help of a wizard who sent the child to another world. (a world they had no knowledge of except for the fact it had humans in.) sending the child away stripped the wizard of his powers and he lived as a court wizard though he never did magic again.

Just because the old king had a deep rooted prejudice doesn;t mean the people did, in my world the kings word was law, and while some people agreed a majority didn't. But until he died, which he did eleven years after she is sent away, nobody could question him, including his son, who then became king and put a stop to the mindless slaughter.

The age thing was really just a comedy thing, people are expecting a child they can mould and make into the perfect lady, and they get a teenager who doesnt want to become one.
I can easily change that but I'd rather not, I have some great scenes in mind with the queen wanting to braid her hair and the girl not wanting her to do it.

I suppose while she is the main character, the story isn't really about her, its about the assassinations of important people and the royal family sending a few choice people (including her guardian) out to find out who is behind it.

She's just a kind of red herring I suppose, while she's spazzing out the important things will be happening in the background.

Okay, you keep saying that you want people to not just like her for no reason at all, but I have to say having them dislike her for no reason at all is almost as bad (it creates a false sense of sympathy). However you've mentioned on numerous occasions that she's rude to pretty much everyone and that it is a completely valid reason for people to dislike her. If she comes to this new world and situation and, not knowing how to react lashes out at everyone, people will likely get very tired of that very fast and will start being rude back to her ("courtly" sort of rude, not childish "Nyah nyah nyah" wink .

Also, especially since she's a "red herring" (though I think you probably aren't using this as the term would usually apply. A red herring is a false clue or suspect designed to distract you from the true villain, whereas it sounds more like she simply adds to the chaos and creates another obstacle to get around.) I think that the easiest way to avoid making her a Mary Sue (and to make the plot flow more smoothly) would be to not focus on her, to not have her be the main character. Personally, I think it would be much more interesting if this were all from the prince's point of view, expecting a 12 year old - whom he's never met before - who will be kept in the nursery, away from him being trained to be a proper wife in another 5-8 years or so, instead he gets a belligerent 17 year old who keeps fumbling around his court, pestering him and in general making a nuisance of herself while he's trying to figure out where all these anti-elf rumors are coming from and who's behind this plot to stir people up against the elves, and in turn the throne if it supports them.

To me, changing the focus to this completely eradicates any chance of her being a Mary Sue, makes not only her, but the prince (or I guess I would be king at this point) more realistic, as well as everyone's relationships to each other. If you want to show the problems she's having, you can have the prince walk in on the situations, or have her, or is steward of something come tell him..."Your Majesty, there's a problem with your betrothed. Again."

[InuYasha79]

its pretty cool+