Ambiguity versus Explanation? (Solved, thanks so much!)

[Rotsab M. Hyolf]

So somehow I find myself writing a romance story between two robots. Bizarre, I know. What I'm struggling with is that the story takes place from the perspective (though not the p.o.v., if that makes sense) of one of the robots. This robot is wholly unaware of what is going on outside of its single cell (no contact, sensory contributions, so forth). However, there is a lot going on outside, and even a level of dramatic irony in that the robot believes it has carved a window into a cell next door when in reality it was always intended to be there and the people wanted it to perform this task.

The goal of the experiment is to see how a lack of any outer influence shapes the brain, personality, so on. It's an interesting test, but somewhat questionable on a morality level, so it has gained a lot of bad press and media out-crying. There was a massive controversy over whether robots who are so close to being humans should be afforded the same rights as a human being; ultimately, it was ruled no. However, initially anyone could view the 'robot-cams' to monitor them and shortly after that ruling, they went offline (the actual reason was that the robots were self-mutilating and it didn't seem like something appropriate for 'all viewers'). There is a lot of politics involved, people have written essays and even books, some movies, and there have been rallies to 'Free The Robots'. (The experiment has taken place over the course of roughly forty years).

The robots -- especially the one that is written from the perspective of, do not know any of the information in the second paragraph. They know the word time and likely the mechanics, but do not acknowledge the passing of time, nor can they relate it to anything to thus understand if it has been a 'long' time or 'short'. My fear is that leaving out all of the information in the second paragraph will make it look like a lazy story that raises a variety of questions (how could such a thing get approved, how could such a thing happen in such a relatively short timespan [we tend to assume what we read takes place over a short amount of time unless told otherwise], why there isn't any back-lash for this, so on). I don't want to seem like I haven't thought about these things -- I have, extensively, but I don't want to risk losing the tone of the story (isolation, abandonment) just to prove myself, either.

What do you think, WF? Assuming both 'versions' were written the absolute best they could be, which is a better route? To remain ambiguous to what is going on outside the cells and potentially have readers questioning the believability and mechanics of such a venture, or explain the political ventures and time lapses at the cost of losing the theme?

[DarknessofHeavenandDreams]

Is what happens outside of the cell important?

[Rotsab M. Hyolf]

DarknessofHeavenandDreams

Is what happens outside of the cell important?

Yes and no. It explains the purpose of the cell and the reactions to it. It's sort of like... having an alien in your story, and then wanting to explain the biology so their being able to castrate themselves and turn female makes sense.

It impacts the characters within the cells without the characters being at all aware of it.

[Cogent Dream]

Rotsab M. Hyolf

So somehow I find myself writing a romance story between two robots. Bizarre, I know. What I'm struggling with is that the story takes place from the perspective (though not the p.o.v., if that makes sense) of one of the robots. This robot is wholly unaware of what is going on outside of its single cell (no contact, sensory contributions, so forth). However, there is a lot going on outside, and even a level of dramatic irony in that the robot believes it has carved a window into a cell next door when in reality it was always intended to be there and the people wanted it to perform this task.

The goal of the experiment is to see how a lack of any outer influence shapes the brain, personality, so on. It's an interesting test, but somewhat questionable on a morality level, so it has gained a lot of bad press and media out-crying. There was a massive controversy over whether robots who are so close to being humans should be afforded the same rights as a human being; ultimately, it was ruled no. However, initially anyone could view the 'robot-cams' to monitor them and shortly after that ruling, they went offline (the actual reason was that the robots were self-mutilating and it didn't seem like something appropriate for 'all viewers'). There is a lot of politics involved, people have written essays and even books, some movies, and there have been rallies to 'Free The Robots'. (The experiment has taken place over the course of roughly forty years).

The robots -- especially the one that is written from the perspective of, do not know any of the information in the second paragraph. They know the word time and likely the mechanics, but do not acknowledge the passing of time, nor can they relate it to anything to thus understand if it has been a 'long' time or 'short'. My fear is that leaving out all of the information in the second paragraph will make it look like a lazy story that raises a variety of questions (how could such a thing get approved, how could such a thing happen in such a relatively short timespan [we tend to assume what we read takes place over a short amount of time unless told otherwise], why there isn't any back-lash for this, so on). I don't want to seem like I haven't thought about these things -- I have, extensively, but I don't want to risk losing the tone of the story (isolation, abandonment) just to prove myself, either.

What do you think, WF? Assuming both 'versions' were written the absolute best they could be, which is a better route? To remain ambiguous to what is going on outside the cells and potentially have readers questioning the believability and mechanics of such a venture, or explain the political ventures and time lapses at the cost of losing the theme?

Hot. I love how you just "find yourself" doing something like this razz

I think introducing the concept of time would be beneficial to your story. Whether you do this through purely your robots or introducing another story path that follows an outsider (perhaps one campaigning for the robots' rights) is up to you.

There are ways to cue the passage of time though. If the robot has the optical capacity to recognise individuals, it could note the aging of certain scientists. Or else, some other visual cue (a plant, clock, something with timed life, etc.)

However, I think the story of the "outside" is quite interesting as well and to leave it out completely would give the reader little point of reference and hinder the ability to understand your story. You mentioned that there was an element of dramatic irony, and I take this to mean that the reader already knows some of the history and is aware that there is an "outside", something that the robot does not. In these interludes, you could expand on the back story or else include an epilogue or ending chapter/paragraph that makes it known, bringing the reader back to familiar territory and thus emphasising even more the emotions raised during the story by contrast.

[Ysavvryl]

I think, if the perspective is done really close to the robot, ambiguity could work out to keep the isolated tone. But that would require the story being fascinating enough that the background issues such as morality become fridge logic, something the reader doesn't even consider until after they're read the story and put it down for a while. I don't consider that bad, as it's a mark of a really interesting story.

It might work to put in a disruption to the experiment towards the very end of the story, in which one of the liberators manages to get inside the cell and gives some rant/mini-speech on how the robots are free from abuse and so on... and the robot has no clue what to do about that or gets annoyed that the liberator has mussed up the window (depending on the personality of the robot).

Another tactic would be to put that background information in a formal essay; well, formal enough to get the point across, but still be interesting so as not to lose the reader's interest. Cut between the essay and the story every now and then. It works even better if the story sections reflect or contrast against the essay, such as something about 'no human-like intelligence can be happy being isolated as we're wired to be social', and then the robot is pleased with some thing that's rather minor to our perspective, like having cleaned the cell.

And then there could be a panel review from whoever is watching the robots, giving commentary on the story. That would give a good hint as to how much time goes by, what other robots are doing, and some of the politics. It'd work the same way as the essay.

...I don't think a romance between two robots is weird... what's weird is the context it's in. But very interesting idea!

[2muchBLOOD4U]

Basically the same as the above:

I think you should include the back story but I think that it would greatly benefit from being revealed very slowly piece by piece through out from the robot's point of view - perhaps it witnesses very small things happening here and there that clue in the reader, however the robot draws no conclusion from what it sees. (Which sounds like something the robot would do since it can't decide on how much time is long or short.)

Or, another suggestion, you could do it like a lot of early 1900s sort of writing and every now and then you have a letter at the end or the beginning of the chapter, something that the robot has not and will not see - and it could just be a report by one of the scientists hosting the experiment. The reports would be mostly about the robot, but there were once again be small allusions in it to the grander scheme of things, which become more and more clear as you read more of the reports.


Good luck, sounds interesting.

[Rotsab M. Hyolf]

Cogent Dream

Hot. I love how you just "find yourself" doing something like this razz

I think introducing the concept of time would be beneficial to your story. Whether you do this through purely your robots or introducing another story path that follows an outsider (perhaps one campaigning for the robots' rights) is up to you.

There are ways to cue the passage of time though. If the robot has the optical capacity to recognise individuals, it could note the aging of certain scientists. Or else, some other visual cue (a plant, clock, something with timed life, etc.)

However, I think the story of the "outside" is quite interesting as well and to leave it out completely would give the reader little point of reference and hinder the ability to understand your story. You mentioned that there was an element of dramatic irony, and I take this to mean that the reader already knows some of the history and is aware that there is an "outside", something that the robot does not. In these interludes, you could expand on the back story or else include an epilogue or ending chapter/paragraph that makes it known, bringing the reader back to familiar territory and thus emphasising even more the emotions raised during the story by contrast.

xD I have an illness, I tell ya. An illness!

The idea is that because it's total isolation, the robots have never seen the scientists. I did figure out some time element though, much later in the story. I didn't really get a chance to explore outside, and ultimately adding it has led to mixed feelings. On one hand, it shifts the story away from 'hopeless, lost, love' to 'ethics and morality surrounding robots'. It's also a much more clear-cut 'this is bad and not nice' by having an ending that explores what happened outside the cells whereas it's ambiguous by not.

ALSO I've been meaning to tell you for a while now that I started on Witch Hunter a while back and have been taking notes as I go through it. It's been a little busy here but I'm through chapter one and two and a little bit of the way in to chapter three. Expect a review... eventually? sweatdrop (Mostly it's questions on logistics, like how an eleven year old boy can drag a full grown man a large distance, how he had enough force to strike the man dead, small things like that I'm just curious over).

Thanks very much for the comment. <3

Ysavvryl

I think, if the perspective is done really close to the robot, ambiguity could work out to keep the isolated tone. But that would require the story being fascinating enough that the background issues such as morality become fridge logic, something the reader doesn't even consider until after they're read the story and put it down for a while. I don't consider that bad, as it's a mark of a really interesting story.

It might work to put in a disruption to the experiment towards the very end of the story, in which one of the liberators manages to get inside the cell and gives some rant/mini-speech on how the robots are free from abuse and so on... and the robot has no clue what to do about that or gets annoyed that the liberator has mussed up the window (depending on the personality of the robot).

Another tactic would be to put that background information in a formal essay; well, formal enough to get the point across, but still be interesting so as not to lose the reader's interest. Cut between the essay and the story every now and then. It works even better if the story sections reflect or contrast against the essay, such as something about 'no human-like intelligence can be happy being isolated as we're wired to be social', and then the robot is pleased with some thing that's rather minor to our perspective, like having cleaned the cell.

And then there could be a panel review from whoever is watching the robots, giving commentary on the story. That would give a good hint as to how much time goes by, what other robots are doing, and some of the politics. It'd work the same way as the essay.

...I don't think a romance between two robots is weird... what's weird is the context it's in. But very interesting idea!

Haha, my ending is actually the closest to this. The liberators showing up and what not, essentially. I agree that it has to be interesting not to bring up those issues, though I have the benefit of it being a very short story (less than 2k). In fact, there's parts where I feel it's maybe too short in comparison to others (the robots interacting, for instance).

The essay is an insanely cool idea, which I wish I had thought of! Ahaha, maybe I'll write a 'sequel' of sorts that is the essay the liberators have written/a speech they give at the conference.

I really like the idea of not showing the scientists, as it creates a sort of villain. By never seeing them you don't get to choose a human enemy, instead the idea is what you get mad at, so forth.

Ehehehe, yeah I... tend to go for slightly odd things. Thanks for saying it's an interesting idea, though! <3 When I was younger I thought it'd be a very cool idea (robots with human emotions and so forth totally isolated, to study what comes out in terms of religion, bigotry, political views, so on). Then I realized it wasn't a nice idea to subject anything but fictional characters to it. xD

2muchBLOOD4U

Basically the same as the above:

I think you should include the back story but I think that it would greatly benefit from being revealed very slowly piece by piece through out from the robot's point of view - perhaps it witnesses very small things happening here and there that clue in the reader, however the robot draws no conclusion from what it sees. (Which sounds like something the robot would do since it can't decide on how much time is long or short.)

Or, another suggestion, you could do it like a lot of early 1900s sort of writing and every now and then you have a letter at the end or the beginning of the chapter, something that the robot has not and will not see - and it could just be a report by one of the scientists hosting the experiment. The reports would be mostly about the robot, but there were once again be small allusions in it to the grander scheme of things, which become more and more clear as you read more of the reports.


Good luck, sounds interesting.

Mm, like subtle hints? I like that idea. I tried to incorporate that; though larger things were a bit out of its spectrum. It didn't need food, cleaning or so on so there was no reason for anyone to interact with it whatsoever. The report idea is very cool, as I told Ysavvryl (spelt it right on my first try! yes!) I love the concept of sort of... a barrier, almost, or a fourth wall where we have dramatic irony/alternative things happening the characters don't know of. In one of my stories it's as simple as, 'May 3, 1994' before each segment. I tried not to have segments with this one though, so it would flow better, but it's unfortunately made it a little hard to tell time in (it seems the time spent alone is longer than the time with each other, when in reality it is the reverse, they just... stand there for years doing nothing and I have no way to say that, haha).

Thanks so much for the well wishes and thinking it's interesting! I certainly hope it is too! <3


This is a link to the story, for anyone who wants to read it, give feedback, so on; Hello; A Robot Love Story. Of course no one is under any obligation to do so, it's just if any of you were curious, haha.

[Cogent Dream]

Rotsab M. Hyolf

Cogent Dream

Hot. I love how you just "find yourself" doing something like this razz

I think introducing the concept of time would be beneficial to your story. Whether you do this through purely your robots or introducing another story path that follows an outsider (perhaps one campaigning for the robots' rights) is up to you.

There are ways to cue the passage of time though. If the robot has the optical capacity to recognise individuals, it could note the aging of certain scientists. Or else, some other visual cue (a plant, clock, something with timed life, etc.)

However, I think the story of the "outside" is quite interesting as well and to leave it out completely would give the reader little point of reference and hinder the ability to understand your story. You mentioned that there was an element of dramatic irony, and I take this to mean that the reader already knows some of the history and is aware that there is an "outside", something that the robot does not. In these interludes, you could expand on the back story or else include an epilogue or ending chapter/paragraph that makes it known, bringing the reader back to familiar territory and thus emphasising even more the emotions raised during the story by contrast.

xD I have an illness, I tell ya. An illness!

The idea is that because it's total isolation, the robots have never seen the scientists. I did figure out some time element though, much later in the story. I didn't really get a chance to explore outside, and ultimately adding it has led to mixed feelings. On one hand, it shifts the story away from 'hopeless, lost, love' to 'ethics and morality surrounding robots'. It's also a much more clear-cut 'this is bad and not nice' by having an ending that explores what happened outside the cells whereas it's ambiguous by not.

ALSO I've been meaning to tell you for a while now that I started on Witch Hunter a while back and have been taking notes as I go through it. It's been a little busy here but I'm through chapter one and two and a little bit of the way in to chapter three. Expect a review... eventually? sweatdrop (Mostly it's questions on logistics, like how an eleven year old boy can drag a full grown man a large distance, how he had enough force to strike the man dead, small things like that I'm just curious over).

Thanks very much for the comment. <3

No problem. I think some sort of recurring motif to represent time would be cool. It could even be ambiguous until later on (like if the robot doesn't recognise what a plant is and describes this green thing snaking its way slowly around the room through cracks and later on, years after the experiment is abandoned, someone finds the room overgrown with vines and weeds, the robot still inside).

True though, it depends on what you want the main effect of the story to be. If it was a morality message, I would include the outside world but if you wanted to keep the story focused on an emotional turmoil, maybe leaving it ambiguous would be better.

Can't wait to read your review. Thanks for taking the time!

[InkMistress]

Rotsab M. Hyolf

The goal of the experiment is to see how a lack of any outer influence shapes the brain, personality, so on. It's an interesting test, but somewhat questionable on a morality level, so it has gained a lot of bad press and media out-crying. There was a massive controversy over whether robots who are so close to being humans should be afforded the same rights as a human being; ultimately, it was ruled no. However, initially anyone could view the 'robot-cams' to monitor them and shortly after that ruling, they went offline (the actual reason was that the robots were self-mutilating and it didn't seem like something appropriate for 'all viewers'). There is a lot of politics involved, people have written essays and even books, some movies, and there have been rallies to 'Free The Robots'. (The experiment has taken place over the course of roughly forty years).

Sounds like you've got a plan from the discussion, but I just have to say this--the above quoted section is much, much too awesome to not be in your story. If you can find a way to incorporate it, that would absolutely make for an amazing piece.

[Rotsab M. Hyolf]

InkMistress

Rotsab M. Hyolf

The goal of the experiment is to see how a lack of any outer influence shapes the brain, personality, so on. It's an interesting test, but somewhat questionable on a morality level, so it has gained a lot of bad press and media out-crying. There was a massive controversy over whether robots who are so close to being humans should be afforded the same rights as a human being; ultimately, it was ruled no. However, initially anyone could view the 'robot-cams' to monitor them and shortly after that ruling, they went offline (the actual reason was that the robots were self-mutilating and it didn't seem like something appropriate for 'all viewers'). There is a lot of politics involved, people have written essays and even books, some movies, and there have been rallies to 'Free The Robots'. (The experiment has taken place over the course of roughly forty years).

Sounds like you've got a plan from the discussion, but I just have to say this--the above quoted section is much, much too awesome to not be in your story. If you can find a way to incorporate it, that would absolutely make for an amazing piece.

Oh, thanks! Haa, I certainly tried to incorporate it, though it's sort of... played down a bit. I thought it was a cool idea too, though, and it's definitely something I could see myself revisiting down the road from an outsider's perspective.