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Dundeleedum
Joining this late, sorry

Prelim
Never too late!
Schwanengesang's avatar

Dangerous Noob

Errol McGillivray
Dundeleedum
Joining this late, sorry

Prelim
Never too late!


I think you've already quoted that one...

Or is this a reminder for me to do something?
Tayasu Sango
Okay I don't think I understand what staging means (first time I've encountered the art term).

I was thinking that the second image was more dynamic because his head turned off to the side and it balances with the left arm closest to the viewer and then the other arm kind of has some perspective on it so it looks kinda smaller than the one in front of the viewer because it's farther away.

And then the first one has almost/pretty much his whole body facing the same direction and mild perspective since the other arm is behind the body but it isn't dynamic as it could be. Also applies to the third image.

But I'm not sure if this is what staging means? /hair pull classified_fu

I can't explain the difference in thrust and why the artist chose to make the drawings border-less either.
Assuming you're talking about the tumblr post (I didn't think anyone I didn't know rl was actually reading that s**t. Haha.)

Staging (as I understand it) is the arrangement of players (objects) on the stage. This stage can be the 3d space as it exists in the universe of your image. Even the images in the first quiz are staged and one staging is better than the other, for composition purposes. That's the most basic staging. Make things clear in silhouette and arrange so that nothing that needs to "read" is hidden within the silhouette. (You can go back to the second set of videos where we look at all the quizzes.

An illustration however has another level of staging. The relationships between the players and with the viewer.

See, I learned about staging through stage performance (dance), studying animation (both academically and cause I ******** LOVE ANIMATION), and cinematography for film. Animation is even better to study that film because in film, you can't stage a lot of things that you have no control over. In animation EVERYTHING is a decision someone made. Just like our illustrations. Study Disney features and you'll develop a wonderful sense of staging by example.

An illustration, like a film is a story. Unlike a book, they don't interact by reading. It's your job to engage the viewer into interacting with your players, so they "read" the visuals and invest in your story. (Dialog too, but most subtext is visual. Subtext - "reading between the lines" wink You lead them through the story, so they see what you want them to in the order you want them to so they come to the end as you want them to. You also must make sure they have the relationships with your players that YOU want them to or they'll be reading a story you didn't intend.

I kept is really simple, with only one character that was similar to his own, but as illustrations get more complex, you can really go on and on about it. (And ramble like I do. Haha.)

As for the thrust, see how the center line of the torso bends? The thrust is the directions of the peak of the curve. In both, the bottom of the ribcage is thrust forward, so the shoulders and hips are pointing to the back. The reason I say it's a pointless thrust is because usually the thrust indicated movement or intention to move. The two static ones have chest thrust that doesn't follow through with the rest of the body and there's no movement or preparation to move. That's why I said it was pointless.

It's not that the artist chose to make them borderless, it's what those artists did with lack of background/frame that the artist I critiqued didn't. The bottom one made sure all of the body was in the image and nothing was cropped off. The top did a much better job by using the body to be the frame, so it's all contained without having to crop the body at the hips or legs or whatever else wasn't going to fit on the page. (Used the cropping for composition).
Schwanengesang
Errol McGillivray
Dundeleedum
Joining this late, sorry

Prelim
Never too late!


I think you've already quoted that one...

Or is this a reminder for me to do something?
The page put you on the bottom, i guess.
Alright. I was waiting for one more, but I'll move on and make the videos.
Ah alrighty, thank you for explaining. I'll go study some Disney scenes and try to see how they used their staging.

Yes, I read the stuff on your tumblr. creep creep

Quiz critique, I await you.

edit - Oh wait question: Would you prefer if we did dailies in only pencil/black pencil crayon? Is ballpoint pen okay?
Tayasu Sango
Ah alrighty, thank you for explaining. I'll go study some Disney scenes and try to see how they used their staging.

Yes, I read the stuff on your tumblr. creep creep

Quiz critique, I await you.

edit - Oh wait question: Would you prefer if we did dailies in only pencil/black pencil crayon? Is ballpoint pen okay?
You do dailies with whatever makes you comfortable. Those are all about you practicing and accessing yourself. You don't even have to show them to me. Just keep drawing.

I'm honored that you (or anyone for that matter) reads it.

I've been studying Tarzan for a week now. I watch it back to back twice a day (3 on weekends) and every run I look for something different. Once, I looked at JUST background characters. You notice some very interesting things there. I looked for just visuals against music. Just one character on some. Just eyes and brows on another. Another would just be shape design. It's all very fascinating and I've been learning a lot that's slowly showing itself in my art. Especially the eyes. Still working on getting the brows to join them as a unit.

I also did a study on Mulan years ago. Wrote a paper on how her hair alone reflects the conflicts in the entire story through it's style and interactions people have with it.

Disney is excellent to study because everything is well planned and each and every problems solved. They also do something very interesting that is so subtle that no one really notices. The focal point and important characters are in detail and as you move away from the focus, there is less and less detail. They show what needs to be seen without breaking suspension of disbelief.

Anyways, I'll put the videos up when I can. I'm still taking notes on the quiz. There's a lot to observe there.
BabbleFish's avatar

Shameless Smoker

Is it too late to join in the fun?
BabbleFish
Is it too late to join in the fun?
Never.
I've been hanging onto this prelim for long enough without scanning it now. I apologize that bad cell phone image is bad.

Prelim.

Also, watching your videos, derp. I think I missed the point of this exercise.
Anaiira
I've been hanging onto this prelim for long enough without scanning it now. I apologize that bad cell phone image is bad.

Prelim.

Also, watching your videos, derp. I think I missed the point of this exercise.
I replied on tumblr. You'll get it. Don't worry.
I think my loose paper is all packed somewhere still, but I found some old brown paper (which is why the scan is brown).
Prelim
Sebyth
I think my loose paper is all packed somewhere still, but I found some old brown paper (which is why the scan is brown).
Prelim
DUDE! Glad to see you!

And yeah! Another prelim. I'm using these for the coming week too. xD

After you watch the video about drawing straight lines, do a couple pages as a warm up. Then do the prelim again. Your 3D shapes are fundamentally great, but you have zero confidence in your line and it shows. I think getting more control over your arm will help. Relax your grip on the pencil too. Move from the elbow or shoulder rather than the wrist. I see a lot more confidence in the 3D shapes. Probably because you have a sense of space and volume, and you also remember your foundations from your training. (Doesn't matter how long ago it was, it sticks with you if you call on it.)

What happened here is that your 2D shapes were a warm up for the 3D ones. They should all be to the same level of control. Relax. You can do it and with no stress if you just... let it happen. Warming up makes a huge difference. Just lines. Doesn't matter if they taper at the end. Mine do too. Like you kept your lines longer than you needed in the 3D ones, do the same for the 2D. After a couple pages of that, you should be able to keep your lines straight and still stop them at the corners. At least, near them. xD

Go ahead with week 1. Just remember this stuff as you go forward. And don't forget warm ups.
Errol McGillivray
DUDE! Glad to see you!

And yeah! Another prelim. I'm using these for the coming week too. xD

After you watch the video about drawing straight lines, do a couple pages as a warm up. Then do the prelim again. Your 3D shapes are fundamentally great, but you have zero confidence in your line and it shows. I think getting more control over your arm will help. Relax your grip on the pencil too. Move from the elbow or shoulder rather than the wrist. I see a lot more confidence in the 3D shapes. Probably because you have a sense of space and volume, and you also remember your foundations from your training. (Doesn't matter how long ago it was, it sticks with you if you call on it.)

What happened here is that your 2D shapes were a warm up for the 3D ones. They should all be to the same level of control. Relax. You can do it and with no stress if you just... let it happen. Warming up makes a huge difference. Just lines. Doesn't matter if they taper at the end. Mine do too. Like you kept your lines longer than you needed in the 3D ones, do the same for the 2D. After a couple pages of that, you should be able to keep your lines straight and still stop them at the corners. At least, near them. xD

Go ahead with week 1. Just remember this stuff as you go forward. And don't forget warm ups.

Yay, I haven't been here in.. years?

Watching the videos now for week 1; did you want me to email you the pages of lines and so on as well?

Yes, 0 confidence in my lines, as we were discussing earlier (and in previous years I think?). If I hadn't seen your thing about not shading (on tumblr) before I decided to do this, I would have shaded the crap out of the shapes to make up for my weakass lines. XD
Sebyth
Errol McGillivray
DUDE! Glad to see you!

And yeah! Another prelim. I'm using these for the coming week too. xD

After you watch the video about drawing straight lines, do a couple pages as a warm up. Then do the prelim again. Your 3D shapes are fundamentally great, but you have zero confidence in your line and it shows. I think getting more control over your arm will help. Relax your grip on the pencil too. Move from the elbow or shoulder rather than the wrist. I see a lot more confidence in the 3D shapes. Probably because you have a sense of space and volume, and you also remember your foundations from your training. (Doesn't matter how long ago it was, it sticks with you if you call on it.)

What happened here is that your 2D shapes were a warm up for the 3D ones. They should all be to the same level of control. Relax. You can do it and with no stress if you just... let it happen. Warming up makes a huge difference. Just lines. Doesn't matter if they taper at the end. Mine do too. Like you kept your lines longer than you needed in the 3D ones, do the same for the 2D. After a couple pages of that, you should be able to keep your lines straight and still stop them at the corners. At least, near them. xD

Go ahead with week 1. Just remember this stuff as you go forward. And don't forget warm ups.

Yay, I haven't been here in.. years?

Watching the videos now for week 1; did you want me to email you the pages of lines and so on as well?

Yes, 0 confidence in my lines, as we were discussing earlier (and in previous years I think?). If I hadn't seen your thing about not shading (on tumblr) before I decided to do this, I would have shaded the crap out of the shapes to make up for my weakass lines. XD
As we all did. No worries.

And only email the quiz. Full resolution. The rest can be posted here if you want. The warm ups are for you. They're about loosening the arm and learning muscle control. The results show in the stuff you do show.

I like to see the dailies posted here. So people can give each other feedback. And I can give a poke in the right direction if I need to or if you want me to. (And remind me that people are actually working with me on this s**t.) Posting the dailies is really up to you. The only things I require are the opening and quiz. (Wait for me to see the opening before moving on each time.)

Have at it!! I am in the process of going over last week and doing the wrap up and the next set. It's pretty difficult this time. This s**t is INVOLVED.

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