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yes 0.50467289719626 50.5% [ 432 ]
no 0.49532710280374 49.5% [ 424 ]
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Has Islam been twisted into a system that it was not origianly, has the world moved on and it has been left in the era where women were secondary and democracy was non-existant.
eg when islam orriginaly came about wasn't it quite radical when it came to womens rights, and now it is veiwed to be holding them back.
Terroism, anyone know what the koran says about it, I have my suspicions that the terroists are using islam as almost an excuse to be violent.
what are your veiws?
da_wall
Has Islam been twisted into a system that it was not origianly,
So?
Quote:

has the world moved on and it has been left in the era where women were secondary
Wo0t! Yet another misrepresentation of women in Islam.

The first one this week? Yay! You got a head start.
Quote:
and democracy was non-existant.
So? Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to me. Just because you don't have a taste for Theocracy, doesn't mean it's wrong.


Quote:
eg when islam orriginaly came about wasn't it quite radical when it came to womens rights, and now it is veiwed to be holding them back.
Terroism, anyone know what the koran says about it, I have my suspicions that the terroists are using islam as almost an excuse to be violent.
what are your veiws?
My views? That you have completely removed the actions of a group and a religion from the cultural context that it works within.
I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way. Islam does not support violence. It was twisted by corrupted leaders who manipulate people's minds.
Bloodless Amber
I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way.

You're right. You haven't read it cover to cover.

See... "reading enough" can get you in trouble, as at least the Bani Isra'il disagrees with your assertion.
Bloodless Amber
I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way. Islam does not support violence. It was twisted by corrupted leaders who manipulate people's minds.
i agree with her. all the koran says is how we as muslims should live our life. and like TeaDidikai said what's wrong with theocracy i would rather be governed by islam than by, as of right now, Bush. and the people who practice islam all believe in the same thing so they wouldn't need democracy to agree on what's already agreed upon. things change over time. aren't some people saying that the government is changing the constitution if they take away gay marriage rights and abortion rights. that's life for ya. And islam, if it has changed, it hasn't changed much. maybe just the things people say islam says has changed but if you practiced the religion you'd know that we've been praying the same way since the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) showed us and we still believe the same beliefs as we believed 1000 years ago.women are secondary in life all over the world. like in the US isn't it more likely that what the husband says will be listened to by people more than what the wife says. And who's been ruling the US ever since it got it's independence? Men! And to wear the veil or hijab as we call it is totally our choice and we wear it to be modest. it's a lot better then being like brittney spears and dressing half naked. islam is "viewed to be holding them back" because "the west" is ignorant. people assume without doing any research.
TeaDidikai
Bloodless Amber
I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way.

You're right. You haven't read it cover to cover.

See... "reading enough" can get you in trouble, as at least the Bani Isra'il disagrees with your assertion.
what do you mean "you're right. you haven't read it cover to cover." are you saying islam does promote violience?
Pomnuria Garjzla
TeaDidikai
Bloodless Amber
I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way.

You're right. You haven't read it cover to cover.

See... "reading enough" can get you in trouble, as at least the Bani Isra'il disagrees with your assertion.
what do you mean "you're right. you haven't read it cover to cover." are you saying islam does promote violience?
Within context- yes. It does.

The scripture itself gives examples of when one should and should not kill someone, and attributes righteousness to doing it at the right time to the right person and dishonor to doing it at the wrong time to the wrong person.
so you reckon that the koran is being misinterpreted by the extremests?
Here are some verses from Islamic scriptures..
8:60
And prepare against them what
force you can and horses tied at the frontier,
to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...

Fight those who believe not
in Allah nor the Last Day,
nor hold that forbidden
which hath been forbidden
by Allah and His Messenger,
nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,
(even if they are) of the
People of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with
willing submission,
and feel themselves subdued.
[Qu'ran 9.29]

I will instill terror into the
hearts of the unbelievers:
smite ye above their necks and
smite all their finger-tips off them"
[Qu'ran 8:12]

9:23
O ye who believe! Choose
not your fathers nor
your brethren for friends
if they take pleasure in
disbelief rather than faith.
Whoso of you taketh
them for friends, such are wrong-doers.

9:85
Let not their wealth
nor their children please
thee! Allah purposeth
only to punish them
thereby in the world,
and that their souls
shall pass away
while they are disbelievers.

58:22
Thou wilt not find folk
who believe in Allah
and the Last Day loving
those who oppose
Allah and His messenger,
even though they
be their fathers or their
sons or their brethren
or their clan.

Allah hath sealed their
hearing and their hearts,
and on their eyes there is a covering.
Theirs will be an awful doom.
2:7

In their hearts is a disease, and Allah
increaseth their disease. A painful doom
is theirs because they lie
2:10

And if ye do it not - and ye can never do it
- then guard yourselves against the Fire
prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is
of men and stones.
2:24

But they who disbelieve, and deny Our
revelations, such are
rightful Peoples of the Fire.
They will abide therein.
2:39

And when there cometh
unto them a
scripture from Allah,
confirming that in
their possession -
though before that they
were asking for a signal
triumph over
those who disbelieved -
and when there
cometh unto them
that which they know
(to be the truth) they
disbelieve therein.
The curse of Allah is
on disbelievers.
2:89

ye who believe, say not (unto the Prophet):
"Listen to us" but say "Look upon us,"
and be ye listeners. For disbelievers
is a painful doom.
2:104

And slay them wherever ye find them,
and drive them out of the places whence
they drove you out, for persecution is
worse than slaughter. And fight not with
them at the Inviolable Place of Worship
until they first attack you there, but if
they attack you (there) then slay them.
Such is the reward of disbeliever
2:191

Warfare is ordained for you, though
it is hateful unto you; but it may happen
that ye hate a thing which is good for
you, and it may happen that ye love a
thing which is bad for you.
Allah knoweth, ye know not.
2:216

3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts
of those who disbelieve, because they
set up with Allah that for which He has
sent down no authority, and their abode
is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

8:12
I will cast terror into the hearts of those
who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their
heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

2:191,
And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:193,
And fight them on until there
is no more Tumult or oppression

2:216,
Fighting is prescribed for you, and
ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye
dislike a thing which is good for you

3:28,
Let not the believers Take for friends
or helpers Unbelievers rather than
believers: if any do that, in nothing
will there be help from Allah

4:48
Allah forgiveth not that partners
should be set up with Him; but He
forgiveth anything else, to whom
He pleaseth; to set up partners
with Allah is to devise a sin
Most heinous indeed.

4:84,
Then fight in Allahs cause -
Thou art held responsible only for
thyself - and rouse the believers.
It may be that Allah will restrain
the fury of the Unbelievers; for
Allah is the strongest in might
and in punishment.

4:141,
And never will Allah grant to the
unbelievers a way (to triumphs)
over the believers

5:33,
The punishment of those
who wage war against Allah and
His Messenger, and strive with might
and main for mischief through the
land is: execution, or crucifixion,
or the cutting off of hands and feet
from opposite sides, or exile from
the land: that is their disgrace in
this world, and a heavy punishment
is theirs in the Hereafter;

8:12,
I will instill terror into the hearts
of the unbelievers: smite ye above
their necks and smite all their
finger-tips off them

8:15-16,
O ye who believe! when ye meet
the Unbelievers in hostile array,
never turn your backs to them.
If any do turn his back to them
on such a day - unless it be in a
stratagem of war, or to retreat to
a troop (of his own)- he draws on
himself the wrath of Allah, and his
abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

8:17,
It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah:
when thou threwest (a handful of dust),
it was not thy act, but Allahs: in order
that He might test the Believers by a
gracious trial from Himself

8:60,
Against them make ready your strength
to the utmost of your power, including
steeds of war, to strike terror into
(the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah
and your enemies, and others besides,
whom ye may not know, but whom Allah
doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in
the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto
you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

8:65,
O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight.
If there are twenty amongst you, patient
and persevering, they will vanquish two
hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish
a thousand of the Unbelievers

9:5
But when the forbidden months are past,
then fight and slay the Pagans wherever
ye find them,
and seize them, beleaguer them,
and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:3
And an announcement from Allah and His
Messenger, to the people (assembled)
on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,-
that Allah and His Messenger dissolve
(treaty) obligations with the Pagans.
If then, ye repent, it were best for you;
but if ye turn away, know ye that
ye cannot frustrate Allah.
And proclaim a grievous penalty
to those who reject Faith.

9:14
Fight them, and Allah will punish them
by your hands, cover them with shame,
help you (to victory) over them,
heal the breasts of Believers,

9:23
O ye who believe! take not for protectors
your fathers and your brothers if they
love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so,
they do wrong.

9:28
O ye who believe!
Truly the Pagans are unclean;
so let them not, after this year of theirs,
approach the Sacred Mosque.

9:29
Fight those who believe not in Allah
nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden
which hath been forbidden by Allah
and His Messenger, nor acknowledge
the religion of Truth, (even if they are)
of the People of the Book, until they
pay the Jizya with willing submission,
and feel themselves subdued.

9:39
Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad)
He will punish you with a grievous penalty,
and put others in your place;
but Him ye would not harm in the least.

9:73
O Prophet! strive hard against the
unbelievers and the Hypocrites,
and be firm against them.
Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

9:111
Allah hath purchased of the believers
their persons and their goods;
for theirs (in return) is the garden
(of Paradise): they fight in His cause,
and slay and are slain:
a promise binding on Him in truth,
through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran

9:123
O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers
who gird you about, and let them
find firmness in you:
and know that Allah
is with those who fear Him.

22:9
(Disdainfully) bending his side,
in order to lead (men) astray
from the Path of Allah: for him
there is disgrace in this life,
and on the Day of Judgment
We shall make him taste
the Penalty of burning (Fire).

22:19-22
These two antagonists dispute with
each other about their Lord:
But those who deny (their Lord),
- for them will be
cut out a garment of Fire:
over their heads will be
poured out boiling water.
With it will be scalded
what is within their bodies,
as well as (their) skins.
In addition there will be maces of iron
(to punish) them. Every time they wish
to get away therefrom, from anguish,
they will be forced back therein,
and (it will be said),
Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!

25:52
So obey not the disbelievers,
but strive against them
herewith with a great endeavour.

25:68
Those who invoke not, with Allah,
any other god, nor slay such life
as Allah has made sacred except
for just cause, nor commit fornication;
- and any that does this (not only)
meets punishment.
(But) the Penalty on the
Day of Judgment will be doubled to him,
and he will dwell therein in ignominy,-

37:22-23
Bring ye up, it shall be said,
The wrong-doers and their wives,
and the things they worshipped-
Besides Allah, and lead
them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire!

47:4
Therefore, when ye meet the
Unbelievers (in fight), smite
at their necks; At length,
when ye have thoroughly
subdued them, bind a bond
firmly (on them): thereafter
(is the time for) either generosity
or ransom:
Until the war lays down its burdens.

48:13
And if any believe not in Allah
and His Messenger,
We have prepared,
for those who reject Allah,
a Blazing Fire!

48:29
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah;
and those who are with him
are strong against Unbelievers,
(but) compassionate amongst each other.
da_wall
so you reckon that the koran is being misinterpreted by the extremests?
Amongst others- such as those who remove the theology from the culture and then cast judgement upon it. Kinda like you did in your first post.

G.M.-Skel+
Here are some verses from Islamic scriptures..
-snip-

Someone found a pisspoor and biased translation. Bravo.
Islam is an imperialistic, expansionist religion.
It is not peaceful.
Muhammad Ibn Abdallah Ibn Al-Muttalib(570-632), the prophet of islam, was a man of war who taught his followers to spread his religion by the sword.
Muhammad was a rapist, a *****, a raider who butchered thousands of people who would not subdue before Allah.
This is where Islam comes from.
Those are its roots; Islam was born out of war.
Islam can't accept the other religions which currently exist.
This is the root cause of todays conflict.
This is their motivation.
It is the divinly ordained duty of all muslims to fight in the literal sense, until man-made law has been replaced by God's law, the Sharia, and Islamic law has conquered the entire world.
Muslims have been trying to achieve this goal for 14 hundred years.
This isn't a new conflict; it started in the 7th century.
Moderate Muslims speak of Islam coexisting with other religions and say that the Qu'ran includes many passages promoting peace with the "people of the book" (Jews and Christians).
These are lies.
I accept that the majority of moderate muslims may truly believe that Islam is a peaceful religion, but they are wrong.
For every text moderate Muslims may produce to try to show its peaceful side, there are dozens of counter examples which are both philosophically and historically far more legitimate.
I am not a racist.
I'm just spreading truth.
You can find the truth about Islam yourself by reading the following books, they're a pretty good start:

The Qu'ran, translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The life of Muhammad: a translation of ibn ishaq's work: Sirat Rasul Allah, by A. Guillaume

An Introduction to Islamic Law by Joseph Schacht

Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests From the 7th to the 21st Centuries, by Paul Fregosi

Why I'm Not a Muslim, by Ibn Warraq
Pomnuria Garjzla
TeaDidikai
Bloodless Amber
I've read some of the Koran. I can't say I've read it front to cover, but I've read enough to know it does not encourage violence in any way.

You're right. You haven't read it cover to cover.

See... "reading enough" can get you in trouble, as at least the Bani Isra'il disagrees with your assertion.
what do you mean "you're right. you haven't read it cover to cover." are you saying islam does promote violience?


It's a paradox.

1.One sections says you must fight for your belief,

2.The other is anti-violence.

So the extreamists take option 1 and abuse it to the extent that killing people is OK.
SurvivingPyrodoxManiac...


It's a paradox.

1.One sections says you must fight for your belief,

2.The other is anti-violence.

So the extreamists take option 1 and abuse it to the extent that killing people is OK.
It is not a paradox. You're missing context.

Just like the Torah says Murder is Wrong and Killing is not. rolleyes

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