Why "Femanism" needs to stay out of Twilight

[Lusty teh Lust]

Now, I've been lurking in this forum for quite a while, and I'm pretty surprised to see how much haters the Twilight saga seems to get. At frist, I didn't give a s**t, but now... I'm starting to get annoyed.
Mostly because of one reason.

I swear to god, if I hear one more "OH MAH GODZ TWILIGHT IS SO SEXIST AND NON-FEMANIST WAAAAH!1!1!1! I'm going to stab a puppy with a screwdriver.
The thing is, you're all wrong. All of you. 

I hear a bunch of things like, "BELLA IS PORTRAYED AS A BAD ROLE MODEL!!1!1 That really annoys me.
So loving and caring for your husband is apparently "evil"? Being submissive and loyal is "bad"? The submissive women is generally the male ideal.
You've femanazis must of never been in an actual relationship before.

So what if Bella wants to be an house wife? So what if she wants to be a vampire? I would too, my family/home life is boring as s**t. And it sounds like hers was too, so I don't blame her. That doesn't make her a "bad role model" it makes her relatable, and you overly-sesative.
Chill out.

Another thing I hear a lot is, "BELLA WENT WITH AN ABUSIVE GUY (Edward) INSTEAD OF A NORMAL NICE GUY!!!1!1!1 (Jacob)
BAD ROLE MODEL BAD ROLE MODEL BLLLLAAAAAAH!!!1!1
Look, if you obviously believe this, I can't help but think you've never read the books. Edward actually cares about Bella. He loves her, and makes sure she's never in danger. He even at a cretan point, was going to sacrifice himself for her safety. Jacob on the other hand, only sees Bella has a sex object and cares more about his d**k, then her well being. I know near the end he protects her from his wolf pack or whatever, but it still felt like he was only doing that so he could get into her pants. 

But if chooseing  a guy who cares about you, over a sex-addict who only sees you as a pair of boobs and a v****a="sexist" then you femanazis need to get your heads out of the clouds and come back down to earth. rolleyes

I could say a lot more, but I'm tired, so I'll just wrap this up. The main thing that really annoys me, is the whole swarm of femanazis that won't leave this book alone. Every corner I turn, I see hordes and hordes of there haters spitting on the saga in the most vulger ways possible. 
Point being , feminism needs to leave Twilight alone.  Please. You're just embrassing yourselves.

[Kiba Shinzu]

[Evany Star]

[Crazy Valentine]

Yeah, Edward's so caring he wanted to pimp his woman out to Jake so she could have his "puppies". He's so not abusive in the fact the he went running at Bella full speed and picked her up firmly by her mouth. He's caring and understanding that he forces his will on her when she knows what's best for herself, and when he laughs, scoffs, and mocks her thoughts and ideas.

I've been under the impression Bella doesn't even give two shits about Edward, she only stays because she's 1) scared of him, 2) all she wants out of him is to be turned, 3) now that she's married to him, she's kinda got no choice but to stick with him as per her beliefs as a mormon.

Bella deserves no one in my mind, but if I had to choose between what we're presented with, I would definitely say Jacob because at least he wouldn't become a ***** with Renesmee. The reason I believe this is because she hates everything that doesn't have to do with Eddykins or Jake so, she's dull. I'm definitely a supporter of Bella and Alice, then Bella might not be such a stick in the mud, plus they actually have chemistry unlike the two men in her life.

I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with being a housewife, that's a woman's right if they want that. What I do have a problem with is that some teens do see Bella as a role model to aspire to, so much so, a 15 year old decided to hook up with some man and have a kid by him just on the fact his name is Edward, and then naming the poor kid Bella Renesmee Stephenie. That's just messed up.

In short, it is you who are making a fool of yourself. Especially with your inability to spell feminism.

[Alexander J Luthor]

[TheQuietRiversRage]

I really can't tell if you're being serious or not. While you're right that it's Bella's business whether she wants to be a housewife or strive for a larger goal, I still see her as an unfit role model. Mostly because everything is handed to her with little to no effort. Her social life, her car(s), her boyfriend... And on top of that, she complains about it, treats her human friends as expendable, all but neglecting them once she and Edward become an item, and treats Jacob as a tool. All she does is sit pretty and everything goes her way. A hell of a role model. Especially when people have to put effort into those things.

As for Edward, let's just say that he's a douche and a half. Jacob's not much better. The only reason he was attracted to Bella was because he couldn't read her mind like he could the rest of the student population. He exploited this and instantly made her submissive by pointing out at any interval that he was dangerous and could seriously harm her. And the whole thing with Tyler's Van? He could have done something different instead of tossing her basically to where her head hit the door and he gave her a concussion.

Feminism has nothing to do with it. He is abusive and she puts no effort in her life because she becomes too dependent on Edward. That's what I find to be bullshit.

[Scarlet-Aphrodite-Summers]

Exactly. Well, sorta. You're right where it's not really having to do with feminism. Edward is somewhat of a gentlemen, and it's true that he cares for Bella, but he's also a bit...strange. He tells her to stay away from Jacob and the Reservation, which is something a father would say i think. He doesn't have to be quite so rough when saving her. He could of stood in front of her instead of throwing her against concrete.

I personally only think he was attracted to her because she was different, or, as many people on here call her a "speshul snowflake". She smelled good and her mind was secretive. I don't think he ever really loved her.

Jacob is pretty bad too. He kisses her (twice i believe) by forcing her. When she doesn't choose him, he instead decides he likes her kid. As in, her SMALL BABY. That is just purely disgusting.

The reason i STILL think Bella is a bad role model is because she's incredibly ungrateful for everything she's given. She has *somehow in the Meyer-verse* any boy she wants, all the friends she wants (even though they don't really matter compared to the special Cullens) and pretty much anything in the world that she wants. She also decides that she would like to complain about everything. I think that Bella is a brat. Plain and simple.

[Suiseiten]

@ Scarlet, I wouldn't go so far as even calling Edward a gentleman. He has perhaps more traditional values closer to that of an early 20th century gentleman, but calling him a gentleman doesn't mesh to me. Especially considering how he treats Bella. But it mostly pisses me off how he frequently undermines her. I mean, so he's stronger than her physically. He's also able to make assumptions of what she may do if she reads her friends' minds. Kudos for him. If he truly cares for her, he should at least give her more space rather than treat her like a child/ posession.

But really, OP, I fail to comprehend why it is that you assume that feminism is even a remote issue in most of the arguments when it's more like a lot of indicators of abuse. Seriously, you're delusional if you think Edward and Jacob don't test strongly on the litmus test. Even if it's sugar-coated to be "because it was to help save Bella." No. The Tyler's Van incident was to hide the truth, yet save Bella's life. How the hell is giving her a concussion in the process saving her life and not putting it at risk? There are so many weak and flimsy plot holes with his "rescuing" when it's mostly to reaffirm his control.

Jacob's not an iota better. Not only was there the forced kisses and him thinking of Bella as just a potential ********, but he also had some of the same overprotective thing going. He didn't let her know that Edward called.in New Moon. Then, he practically made it to where he was her only guardian. I get a feeling that when it comes to Renesmee, he's not going to be any better.

Since Bella's been pretty well covered- She's a brat who gets everything she desires with no effort and is not grateful for any of it- I'll skip her. But your other part of saying "you've never been in a real relationship" comment makes me sick. It is possible to be in a relationship where a woman can stand on equal footing as her significant other and not be submissive 24/7. Some situations require submission, but others require standing one's ground and saying "This s**t's not happening." Waving "I'm stronger than you are and I may be the bad guy" as a frequent banner is one of those things.

TL; DR- Feminism has little to nothing to do with it. The guys are abusive, she's undeserving of the attention and a sucky role model, and you need a better argument, OP.

[Minerva de Sade]

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Oh boy, here we go.



Lusty teh Lust

Now, I've been lurking in this forum for quite a while, and I'm pretty surprised to see how much haters the Twilight saga seems to get. At frist, I didn't give a s**t, but now... I'm starting to get annoyed.
Mostly because of one reason.



I wouldn't be surprised about the amount of 'haters' Twilight gets. Justin Beiber has a lot of 'haters' too. It's only natural that something that garners a lot of positive attention will also get a lot of negative attention. (i.e. There are people who are adamantly Anti-Beiber for various reasons.)

Oh, and people having negative opinions 'annoys' you? I can understand hating the Antards, believe me, we Antis (not 'haters') don't like them either. But to get annoyed that someone has a different opinion than you is a little silly, no?



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I swear to god, if I hear one more "OH MAH GODZ TWILIGHT IS SO SEXIST AND NON-FEMANIST WAAAAH!1!1!1! I'm going to stab a puppy with a screwdriver.
The thing is, you're all wrong. All of you.



I don't think stabbing a puppy with a screwdriver is going to solve the problem.

Oh, and please, tell us why we're wrong. Because you're obviously a sane individual who knows better than anyone else, right? After all, sane individuals threaten to stab puppies and get upset over other people's (calm and educated) opinions all the time, right?



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I hear a bunch of things like, "BELLA IS PORTRAYED AS A BAD ROLE MODEL!!1!1 That really annoys me.
So loving and caring for your husband is apparently "evil"? Being submissive and loyal is "bad"? The submissive women is generally the male ideal.



Again, I'm sorry my opinion bothers you. However, I will not change it unless presented with evidence to the contrary. It's just the way I am.

No one ever said loving your husband/being loyal was 'evil'. My problem lies with the 'submissive' issue. See, Bella is pretty much forced to be submissive by Edward. He doesn't let her choose what's best for her (or he presents her a 'choice' that isn't really a choice at all.), he forces his will upon her (forcing her to go to prom on a broken leg, taking apart her engine, telling her he won't 'turn her into a vampire' without marrying him, bribing his sister to kidnap Bella so she'll stay away from Jacob who he's deemed is 'bad for her' without any say on her part), and he constantly tells her how easy it would be for him to kill her.

There's really no problem with being 'submissive' (Some people choose it as a lifestyle, but that has rules and regulations protecting them via a contract) if it's what the woman freely chooses. However, Bella doesn't get a chance to choose. She's presented to us as an independent female, but when the time comes to show it, she becomes a doormat. And there's plenty wrong with being a doormat. You don't need to be an outright b***h, just don't be a doormat.

Bella just goes along with whatever Edward wants because he can turn her into an immortal, beautiful, and rich vampire.

As for the 'male ideal' bullshit:



I don't have to like being 'submissive' just because it's the 'male ideal'. I shouldn't have to. Because I'm a ******** human being, and if I don't want to submit to anyone, I shouldn't have to submit to a man just because he's a ******** dude with a p***s and all that jazz, and I'm a weak female who needs a man to make all my decisions for me and s**t.

******** that noise.



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You've femanazis must of never been in an actual relationship before.





Oh wait, you were serious?

That's kind of a bold statement to make, honey. You're talking to a bunch of people who you only know from pixels on a computer screen. You don't know anything about anybody here besides their opinions, just like I don't know anything about you besides your opinions.

Oh, and allow me to introduce you to my boyfriend of three years (four this November~ heart ). The reason I've been in a relationship this long is because we've built a relationship out of mutual respect, something Bella and Edward really don't have (and don't try to say they do after Edward dumps all the blame on Bella for James, calls her stupid, treats her like she's weak, and pretty much acts like he's above her for the whole series). He treats me like a human being, and I respect him for that.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.



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So what if Bella wants to be an house wife? So what if she wants to be a vampire? I would too, my family/home life is boring as s**t. And it sounds like hers was too, so I don't blame her. That doesn't make her a "bad role model" it makes her relatable, and you overly-sesative.
Chill out.



There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a vampire or a housewife. It's just that Bella only wants that for selfish reasons (she doesn't want to grow old and 'ugly', she doesn't want to work (She hands off Nessie as soon as she gets a chance)), and she pretty much just wants to ******** Edward. That's not 'love'. That's 'lust'.

Yeah, Bella runs off to go be a vampire and abandons her family and her 'friends' for a shot at being pretty forever. Yeah. Totally relatable. It's totally relatable that she just drops everything for her boyfriend (They haven't even been dating for a year, mind you), rather than think of the consequences. And because every decision made by a seventeen-year-old hopped up by hormones from her own lust is a totally legit thing, right?

I fail to see how letting Bella just drop everything is making me 'overly-sensitive'.

And I am chill. I fail to see how I wasn't.





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Another thing I hear a lot is, "BELLA WENT WITH AN ABUSIVE GUY (Edward) INSTEAD OF A NORMAL NICE GUY!!!1!1!1 (Jacob)
BAD ROLE MODEL BAD ROLE MODEL BLLLLAAAAAAH!!!1!1
Look, if you obviously believe this, I can't help but think you've never read the books. Edward actually cares about Bella. He loves her, and makes sure she's never in danger. He even at a cretan point, was going to sacrifice himself for her safety.



Really? Edward cares for Bella?

I'm of the mind that if he 'cared' for her SO MUCH, he would have done the decent thing and made her a vampire sooner. Or he would have left her alone.

If he left her alone, she could have lived her life, she never would have been in any sort of danger, and everything would be hunky-dory.

If he had turned her, then vampires from all around wouldn't have come to try and snack on her, because being a Mary Sue in a vampire novel means you have the most delicious blood in THE UNIVERSE.

All the melodrama could have been avoided if Edward had taken one of these two routes.



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Jacob on the other hand, only sees Bella has a sex object and cares more about his d**k, then her well being. I know near the end he protects her from his wolf pack or whatever, but it still felt like he was only doing that so he could get into her pants.



Oh? So that time he told Charlie about the motorcycles was just because he wanted to get in her pants. The time he warned her about the Cullens was all because he wanted to get in her pants. How he consoled her and became her friend in New Moon was all about how he just wanted to get in her pants.

Granted, Meyer did derail the ******** out of Jacob's character in Eclipse, but he was actually a nice guy in New Moon. He was very good to her. He didn't force her to do anything she didn't want to, he was there to listen to all her complaints. Again, in Eclipse, this all changed.

I'm not saying that Jacob is any better than Edward in some cases, but, between the two of them, he is the better man in my opinion.

Although, you seem to feel otherwise, and that's just fine.



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But if chooseing a guy who cares about you, over a sex-addict who only sees you as a pair of boobs and a v****a="sexist" then you femanazis need to get your heads out of the clouds and come back down to earth. rolleyes



And there you go with the assumptions again.

Look, I said Jacob was the better man out of the two. If I had my way, Bella would die alone because she's a whiny little brat with a martyr complex. Besides, Jacob did not 'only see Bella as a pair of boobs and a v****a'. He legit cared about her just as much as Edward claimed to.

You might wanna knock off the 'feminazi' shenanigans. It might help me take you more seriously. Caring about how women perceive Bella, and how Bella's supposed to be, in essence, the reader themselves, does NOT make me a 'feminazi'. It means I give a s**t about how people view my gender. I don't want people thinking it's okay for women to be abused like Bella. I don't want people to think that this is what all women want.



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I could say a lot more, but I'm tired, so I'll just wrap this up. The main thing that really annoys me, is the whole swarm of femanazis that won't leave this book alone. Every corner I turn, I see hordes and hordes of there haters spitting on the saga in the most vulger ways possible.
Point being , feminism needs to leave Twilight alone. Please. You're just embrassing yourselves.




Yeah, we 'femanazis' (Read: people who don't like the idea of people being treated like Bella Swan by their significant others) just can't leave this poor book series alone, can we?

Oh, I wasn't aware that having an (educated) opinion (we have read the books, silly) on the series was 'spitting on it in the most vulgar way possible'. I wasn't aware that pointing out that 'hey, some of these behaviors are NOT okay for *insert reason here*' is WRONG.

Because that makes other people annoyed and we should just shut our whore mouths and never speak again right?

Nah. Not for me.



I will continue to say that the Twilight Series is a bad thing. I will CONTINUE to say that I think Bella Swan is a horrible doormat because she is a whiny, manipulative, vulgar, selfish brat with a martyr complex. I will CONTINUE to say that Edward Cullen is horrible boyfriend material because he is controlling, possessive, jealous, manipulative, treats Bella like she's lesser than him, and forces his will upon her. I will CONTINUE to say that Jacob is just as bad because he tried to force himself on Bella like a jerk thrown into the friend zone, even though he used to be a pretty nice guy.

I will CONTINUE to say that these things are WRONG, and shouldn't be used as a role model for readers of ANY gender, age, or sexuality. I will CONTINUE to be concerned with the rights of my fellow human beings, regardless of your thoughts on me because of it.

And there is nothing you can say or do that will stop me, nor is there anything that you have said that has convinced me otherwise.

You're more than welcome to take another crack at it, however.

[Kiba Shinzu]

Minerva de Sade

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Oh boy, here we go.

This.
Just this. A thousand times.~



(Also, on a completely unrelated note, I squealed when I saw John, and then everything else in your post made my day/night.~)

[Minerva de Sade]

Kiba Shinzu

This.
Just this. A thousand times.~



(Also, on a completely unrelated note, I squealed when I saw John, and then everything else in your post made my day/night.~)

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Thank ya much.



Wouldn't it be hilarious if she accused Homestuck of having women like Bella Swan? emotion_awesome

I got them all from homestuckreactiongifs on tumblr. I was just waiting for a chance to use some.

[Kiba Shinzu]

Minerva de Sade

Kiba Shinzu

This.
Just this. A thousand times.~



(Also, on a completely unrelated note, I squealed when I saw John, and then everything else in your post made my day/night.~)

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Thank ya much.



Wouldn't it be hilarious if she accused Homestuck of having women like Bella Swan? emotion_awesome

I got them all from homestuckreactiongifs on tumblr. I was just waiting for a chance to use some.

That John is just to much for me

Oh god. Instant bookmark~

[Minerva de Sade]

Kiba Shinzu

That John is just to much for me

Oh god. Instant bookmark~

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

But, Dave.....I'm not a homosexual.

Oh, who am I kidding? C'mere you!

[Kiba Shinzu]

Minerva de Sade

Kiba Shinzu

That John is just to much for me

Oh god. Instant bookmark~

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

But, Dave.....I'm not a homosexual.

Oh, who am I kidding? C'mere you!

be there in a sec babe

((OHMYGODTHISDAVEI'MDYING~))

-Meanwhile: Me in the backround-