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MuffinTheOrphan
-X-Scarlett-Rapture-X-

You're saying antis as, if I said ALL antis.
See, this is what I mean when I say you guys twist up my words. I said SOME antis. Not all antis are idiots. I didn't say ALL antis were full of themselves, just SOME. And those who simply say, "I like Edward.", are idiots who most likely only seen the movies. I tried to give my opinions various times on Twilight, but every time I further explain why i like Twilight, the more you people attack me.
So I say, ******** it.
Some antis make broad statements about Twilight but have no references to back the statements up. That is why some of you have no clue as to what you are saying.
There are toooo many of antis that posted in this thread who think that their opinions are golden. Even if they don't come right out and say it, you can tell by how they write things.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.
I read the post, and as I said before, that person is an idiot.
You said most. I can count on both hands how many antis there are here that use to be or still are regs. When you say most you're saying 6 out of 10. So no, when I say antis, I'm saying the same amount that you are.

No, you said most, not some.


-X-Scarlett-Rapture-X-
Some of you, or a lot of you rather, hate the Twilight Saga. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that either, even if most of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.



To clarify, most and some don't mean the same.

It's not a case of twisting your own words, rather, it's a case of using your own words.

As I said, you have to prove it for me to believe any of what you accuse antis of being and/or doing. The more you don't and the more I say "prove it", the more irritated you seem to get. I would say I'm sorry but I'm not because you accuse us of doing what others are yet have no proof and are instead making blanket assumptions with no examples, no instances to back yourself up.

I'm not saying that antis are saints, but I am saying that we're innocent until proven guilty and so far no one has brought up any evidence, irrefutable or not, to back up what they say about antis.

What type of statements would an anti make here that they would have no reference to back themselves up with? As far as I've seen, every time an anti is in a discussion with someone they always show where they got their proof from. Why, I remember recently that I was talking to another anti and they kept saying that Bella was raped. When I referred to the scene they were talking about- using a reference- I proved them wrong and changed their opinion on that matter.

You're annoying.
Whatever you say, liking Twilight or not, is a simple opinion.
And that is a fact, so I don't understand why you're still trying to argue this with me.

You're annoying.
Belethiel 's avatar

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Belethiel
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MuffinTheOrphan
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I really don't understand why all of you are getting SO upset over Twilight.
Honestly, you're all acting like a bunch of little kids. Only a 5 year old would rant and rave on how their opinions are golden and others are s**t.
So what, a lot of people, including myself obviously, like the Twilight Saga. And there's nothing wrong with that! And there is absolutely nothing that you can do, say, rant, rave, preach, or scream at us to change that. Some of you, or a lot of you rather, hate the Twilight Saga. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that either, even if most of you don't know what the hell you're talking about. But at the end of the day it is your opinion, and your opinion, is your own.
That's like biting someone's head off, just because they prefer pink over yellow.
Seriously, grow up.
I don't understand why you seem upset. Then again, I dont like that you say that most of us have no clue what we're talking about. How do we not know what we're talking about? I ask because no one likes assumptions, especially when they're wrong ones. I'd also like to know why you think antis are holding their opinion as the law and others as s**t. It is starting to get ridiculous that a few say that yet never extrapolate on the wild accusation that the antis here are big assholes who only want to see their own opinions and bash the opinions of fans. Did you miss the pink words that bluntly said that antis will never be right, that he/she will always be right because they're holding their own opinion as forever right without and proof otherwise? I'd seriously like to know how all these asumptions came to be.

Oh sweetie, I am not upset, let this be known. Elven year old kids, sitting at their computers acting big and tough, do not make me upset. And it is true; most of you have no clue what you're talking about. When someone states their opinion, and the antis jump on them as if they were poor starving orphans who haven't seen a meal in forever, doesn't it seem as if they are a little full of themselves? As if their opinions are golden, and anyone who crosses their opinions are s**t? And no, I did not see that post, but if that is what the person stated that word for word, then he/she too, is an idiot. Regardless of he/she like Twilight. Anyone who thinks that their opinions are gold compared to others is an idiot. Only if they said that word for word; I know some antis and trolls like to switch the innocents words around a lot.


What? Please, come up with an example. I haven't seen a reg here NOT know what they're talking about in regards to Twilight! A lot of us know the series better than the fans do.

It's not just an opinion, Twilight is objectively bad since the author doesn't understand typical writing tools and what a writer does to create something good. There are rules for the English language and rules for story telling. Rules for good writing have existed since humans started recording stories. There ARE tried and true methods of creating characters and plot. Now, you can break these rules only if you understand them, but I see no evidence that Stephanie Meyer understands the basic rules of writing.

Thus, she writes poorly. I don't just hate Twilight, I hate The Host, too. This is coming from a former neutral, I only realized Twilight was utter crap when I learned how to write.

This right here, is an example of a person who thinks her opinion is gold.
And saying that something is bad or good IS AN OPINION.
REGARDLESS of what you are talking about and REGARDLESS of if that topic has specific "rules".
A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. That is what "opinion" means. And there is not fact that says that Twilight is a bad story. I don't think so, and various others don't think so either. Therefor it is NOT a fact.


I said it was bad with complete objectivity. I never said no one couldn't like it. It's just bad writing. :l

A Mary Sue character is nearly ALWAYS bad (unless in the hands of a good writer who knows how to write flawed characters, but chooses not to but manages to create good drama with the Sue... these writers are rare and are not Stephanie Meyer) unless if it's a Parody Sue, which is only there to parody Mary Suedom. Bella has been proven to be a Mary Sue. Edward is also a Gary Stu, and it can be argued that the whole vampire race is Sueful itself since it has no real weaknesses. Suedom is objective, it means a character that doesn't have a flaw and too many redeeming characteristics.

If you don't know what a Mary Sue is, look here and here. Bella has many of the characteristics.

There, that is one rule Meyer ignored, main characters need to be well-rounded, either two dimensional or three dimensional with a flaw. Bella is not, I'm not even sure if she is 2D, but she is certainly not 3D, and Meyer thinks she is. I can keep going.

Look deeper, this is more than a matter of opinion. I'm sick and tired of people going, "Well, that's just your opinion, so NEYH!" And if it was an opinion, you wouldn't care about it because you would then dismiss it as an opinion. That is circular reasoning and it does not work, so I'm not going to partake in it.

No. Twilight broke the rules of storytelling and not in a good way, making it bad literature.

Okay, think of it like this. A book is like a complicated math problem. There are crucial parts it needs to work properly and end up with a correct end product. Twilight is an equation that is missing many, many parts, and it just does not work the way it should.

On the other side of the coin, a book can be objectively good. I personally hated The Great Gatsby because I found it to be dull because I like fantasy and science fiction and TGG was a soap opera on paper. But was it well-written, therefore good? Yes. The characters were flawed, fatally so, and there was a well connected plot. Everything made sense in the setting.

I can't say the same for Twilight.
-X-Scarlett-Rapture-X-

You're annoying.
Whatever you say, liking Twilight or not, is a simple opinion.
And that is a fact, so I don't understand why you're still trying to argue this with me.

You're annoying.
And your first sentence was irrelevant.

"I like Twilight/I don't like Twilight." is a statement, not an opinion. You want to see those as opinions? "I think Twilight is good." "I think Twilight is bad."

That isn't a fact because as I said, that sentence, whether coming from an anti or a fan, is a statement. It is until further talking is being done that you go into opinions.

I'm not arguing about opinions being opinionated.

And we end this as thus; You failed. You didn't prove anything you set out to prove nor did you achieve anything that you thought you could or would. Better luck next time.
-X-Scarlett-Rapture-X-
I really don't understand why all of you are getting SO upset over Twilight.
Honestly, you're all acting like a bunch of little kids. Only a 5 year old would rant and rave on how their opinions are golden and others are s**t.
So what, a lot of people, including myself obviously, like the Twilight Saga. And there's nothing wrong with that! And there is absolutely nothing that you can do, say, rant, rave, preach, or scream at us to change that. Some of you, or a lot of you rather, hate the Twilight Saga. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that either, even if most of you don't know what the hell you're talking about. But at the end of the day it is your opinion, and your opinion, is your own.
That's like biting someone's head off, just because they prefer pink over yellow.
Seriously, grow up.

I find it hard to take you seriously.

You put up a thread ranting and raving about Antis, using blanket statements that quite frankly, have been heard so many times it is just daft. You have also accused us of behaviour we see in fans, including yourself.

You threw down the gauntlet by making this thread about what we're supposedly like. Naturally, there would be those who would come to disagree with you, but you're acting much like Shirley Phelps Roper, constantly harping and taking certain parts out of context.

Believe it or not, 99% of Antis do not want to change anyone's opinion, they simply wish to shed light on their view, and in order to do so, they will, naturally, back up their points with external sources to show you why it is interpreted the way it is, or even with the novels themselves. If you scroll back a couple of pages, I highlighted that there are people who dislike it because Edward reminds them of past abusers. Yet in this thread, on this page a fan rebukes me saying that people who feel this are lying to justify the hate.

I for one am not getting upset over Twilight, I'm getting frustrated by people who are so closed-minded that they do not take in what is being said.
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Belethiel

What? Please, come up with an example. I haven't seen a reg here NOT know what they're talking about in regards to Twilight! A lot of us know the series better than the fans do.

It's not just an opinion, Twilight is objectively bad since the author doesn't understand typical writing tools and what a writer does to create something good. There are rules for the English language and rules for story telling. Rules for good writing have existed since humans started recording stories. There ARE tried and true methods of creating characters and plot. Now, you can break these rules only if you understand them, but I see no evidence that Stephanie Meyer understands the basic rules of writing.

Thus, she writes poorly. I don't just hate Twilight, I hate The Host, too. This is coming from a former neutral, I only realized Twilight was utter crap when I learned how to write.

This right here, is an example of a person who thinks her opinion is gold.
And saying that something is bad or good IS AN OPINION.
REGARDLESS of what you are talking about and REGARDLESS of if that topic has specific "rules".
A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. That is what "opinion" means. And there is not fact that says that Twilight is a bad story. I don't think so, and various others don't think so either. Therefor it is NOT a fact.


But, Belethiel didn't say anything about it being a bad story, just that the writing itself is poor. These are two separate parts of one whole.

Writing can be objectively critiqued because there are rules. Twilight doesn't meet the requirements to be well-written nor is it breaking the rules for a meaningful or effective purpose. Therefore, it is bad writing. Anyone that knows English and Writing can all collectively agree if they analyze it, or they can try to find a meaningful purpose behind it... that SMeyer will destroy in her next interview.

Judging the story itself is subjective. This is what you can form an opinion on. You can say you like the story, you think the story was good, etc. I can say I severely dislike the character of Bella, but I'd love to take Emmett out clubbing. Someone else can say that the whole Victoria subplot was interesting, but the main plot of the Edward-Bella-Jacob love story seemed contrived. Because the quality of the story itself is subjective, there can be in-depth discussions about it.

That's what the Antis are trying to do - have a discussion. I lurk here often, and I have never seen any of the behavior you have described.
Belethiel 's avatar

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Belethiel

What? Please, come up with an example. I haven't seen a reg here NOT know what they're talking about in regards to Twilight! A lot of us know the series better than the fans do.

It's not just an opinion, Twilight is objectively bad since the author doesn't understand typical writing tools and what a writer does to create something good. There are rules for the English language and rules for story telling. Rules for good writing have existed since humans started recording stories. There ARE tried and true methods of creating characters and plot. Now, you can break these rules only if you understand them, but I see no evidence that Stephanie Meyer understands the basic rules of writing.

Thus, she writes poorly. I don't just hate Twilight, I hate The Host, too. This is coming from a former neutral, I only realized Twilight was utter crap when I learned how to write.

This right here, is an example of a person who thinks her opinion is gold.
And saying that something is bad or good IS AN OPINION.
REGARDLESS of what you are talking about and REGARDLESS of if that topic has specific "rules".
A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. That is what "opinion" means. And there is not fact that says that Twilight is a bad story. I don't think so, and various others don't think so either. Therefor it is NOT a fact.


But, Belethiel didn't say anything about it being a bad story, just that the writing itself is poor. These are two separate parts of one whole.

Writing can be objectively critiqued because there are rules. Twilight doesn't meet the requirements to be well-written nor is it breaking the rules for a meaningful or effective purpose. Therefore, it is bad writing. Anyone that knows English and Writing can all collectively agree if they analyze it, or they can try to find a meaningful purpose behind it... that SMeyer will destroy in her next interview.

Judging the story itself is subjective. This is what you can form an opinion on. You can say you like the story, you think the story was good, etc. I can say I severely dislike the character of Bella, but I'd love to take Emmett out clubbing. Someone else can say that the whole Victoria subplot was interesting, but the main plot of the Edward-Bella-Jacob love story seemed contrived. Because the quality of the story itself is subjective, there can be in-depth discussions about it.

That's what the Antis are trying to do - have a discussion. I lurk here often, and I have never seen any of the behavior you have described.


Exactly. emotion_dealwithit
Yokozukureinashubakoike
I think i pissed off The Mangled Masterpiece because she put me ignore because she can't handle the truth.

That makes two of us.
-has been silently sipping her soda and watched s**t fly-

It's rather funny really.
They demands that other people respect and remain positive of her attitude, yet they are always so negative in everything that they say.
The one time they do make a good point, and defense for a book, also happens to be at a point when they aren't insulting other people.

Irony in hypocrisy.
Kiba Shinzu
Yokozukureinashubakoike
I think i pissed off The Mangled Masterpiece because she put me ignore because she can't handle the truth.

That makes two of us.
-has been silently sipping her soda and watched s**t fly-

It's rather funny really.
They demands that other people respect and remain positive of her attitude, yet they are always so negative in everything that they say.
The one time they do make a good point, and defense for a book, also happens to be at a point when they aren't insulting other people.

Irony in hypocrisy.


Make that three.

And all I asked was for some proof that there was an Anti on here that said their point of view was fact.

Guess she didn't feel out that butthurt form I posted >3>
-X-Scarlett-Rapture-X-
Oh sweetie, I am not upset, let this be known.

So says the one who threw down the gauntlet in the first place, this thread

Quote:
Elven year old kids, sitting at their computers acting big and tough, do not make me upset. And it is true; most of you have no clue what you're talking about.

You heard it here first folks! Antis are elves rofl

Seriously, from the discussions I have had in the past, antis are able to approach things critically, even things they like or dislike. I can't stand Lord of the Flies, but I can appreciate it as a good form of storytelling.

Quote:
When someone states their opinion, and the antis jump on them as if they were poor starving orphans who haven't seen a meal in forever, doesn't it seem as if they are a little full of themselves?

You do realise that during the height of this mania, a twihard killed the beloved goldfish of her boyfriends 7-year-old sister because she said she didn't like Twilight? Or threw an anti's pet mouse around and it died the next day? There was even proof put up. I for one got accused of trying to stop someone seeing New Moon when I was having trouble finding her booking because the girl didn't think to bring a booking reference or the card the tickets were bought with. When I found it, she screamed and ran around the foyer like she was three.

Quote:
As if their opinions are golden, and anyone who crosses their opinions are s**t?

Funny, we get that kind of flack from Twilight fans, to the point that we have a directory of responses we get when fans find out we dislike it.

Quote:
And no, I did not see that post, but if that is what the person stated that word for word, then he/she too, is an idiot. Regardless of he/she like Twilight. Anyone who thinks that their opinions are gold compared to others is an idiot. Only if they said that word for word; I know some antis and trolls like to switch the innocents words around a lot.

The pot is really calling the kettle black here...

You keep picking out little pieces of peoples' posts and taking them out of their context.
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I really don't understand why all of you are getting SO upset over Twilight.
Honestly, you're all acting like a bunch of little kids. Only a 5 year old would rant and rave on how their opinions are golden and others are s**t.
So what, a lot of people, including myself obviously, like the Twilight Saga. And there's nothing wrong with that! And there is absolutely nothing that you can do, say, rant, rave, preach, or scream at us to change that. Some of you, or a lot of you rather, hate the Twilight Saga. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that either, even if most of you don't know what the hell you're talking about. But at the end of the day it is your opinion, and your opinion, is your own.
That's like biting someone's head off, just because they prefer pink over yellow.
Seriously, grow up.


I have one question: why are you so convinced that anyone who dislikes Twilight wants you to dislike it to?
Or better yet, do you actually believe that if people disagree with you it means they hate you completely?
Because it seems so from they way you're accusing most of Antis here. I'm starting to think you have bigger reasons for dealing badly with people having different opinions than you.
oh look, it's the bully party :3

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