Fallacious Twilight Arguments

Polls are for whoring!

Yes	75.5%	[ 139 ]
Yes	24.5%	[ 45 ]
Total Votes:			[ 184 ]

[Minerva de Sade]

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Minerva's got five and a half hours before class, and she needs something to do so she doesn't fall asleep. *cracks knuckles* Let's do this. (So many gross generalizations, so little time...)



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B. Assumptions About Anti-Twilighters

1. You probably haven't even read the book!


Oh, yes I did. I read Twilight, New Moon, and the first couple chapters of Eclipse, which, thankfully, the PDF I pirated off of the interwebz got lost in the depths of my laptop's hard drive, and then later crashed.

I have never wanted to chuck a book out the window before. It was a strange feeling for me.



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2. You just don't understand the beauty of Edward and Bella's relationship.


Well then, by all means, educate me! Make me understand how 'beautiful' the abuse is. Make me understand how 'beautiful' it is when Edward constantly manipulates Bella into doing what he wants, even going as far as to bribing her with vampirism to get her to marry him. Explain to me the 'beauty' of Bella turning against anyone who is human and not 'spechul' enough for her tastes.

Please, explain it to me. I'm waiting.



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3. You're just jealous of Bella because she's prettier than you! (to females)


Considering we didn't even know Bella was a brunette before Eclipse, that's a really big leap to make.

Besides, how do you know what I look like? I could easily be a model. But, that's the catch, you don't know, do you? I'm just a group of pixels on your computer screen.

So, it makes it sound a little silly that you're stating that I'm 'jealous' of Bella because she's 'prettier' than me.



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4. You're just jealous because Twilight's taking all the girls away! (to males)

Um...I'm a girl, and I don't like Twilight. So, no. Twilight isn't 'taking all the girls away'. Just the ones who seem to be shallower than a puddle.



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5. You've probably only seen the movie. Go read the books; they're SO much better!


On the contrary, I've done both. And, in my honest opinion, the movies were better. No annoying, unreliable first-person narrative, no whining, no self-inflicted wangsting about Eddikins.

And it's condensed into two hours, so your brain won't be as numb when you're done!



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6. Wow, your love life must suck.


And all you know of me is what my avatar looks like, and how I prefer to type.

You do realize what they say about 'assuming', don't you?



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7. You don't have any idea of what romance is, do you?


Maybe not. Perhaps you'd like to speak to my boyfriend of three years?



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8. You’re too young/not mature enough to understand.


Honey, please.

I may act like a child at times, it doesn't mean I am one. I'm older than a good chunk of people I encounter on here.



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9. If you didn't like Twilight and you're a girl, you're probably a lesbian.


Oh, no! You've outed me in front of the whole forum! Oh, woe is me! You found out about my love of boobies!



Yup. I love me some boobies.



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10. You probably only read the first one. You can’t get the full effect from that!

I read the second one too. And honestly, I liked it better. Much less Edward.



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11. You just don’t have a very big vocabulary. You probably didn’t understand it.


Orly?

I regret to inform you of this travesty, but my vernacular is rather large. I did comprehend the language used in Miss Meyer's novels, and, to be quite frank with you, I fail to see anything to get so excited over. It's one thing when the proper word is used in it's intended fashion, however, it is quite another cat altogether when an authoress misuses her vocabulary (and her poor, violated thesarus) to make herself sound smart.

The differences between the two are vast, indeed.



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12. Only old, ugly men hate Twilight.


*ahem* I am a young woman, thank you very much. And I don't like your precious book.

Please refrain from blanket statements, dear OP. It makes you sound less ignorant of the way the world actually works, rather than being consumed in your own little fantasy world where everyone likes the same things you do.



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13. You probably have no friends.


*glances around the forum*

Nope. None. No friends. At all. Just some random people I enjoy talking to on a regular basis, and who I get along with quite swimmingly. Nope. No friends.



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14. You must be very insecure about yourself.


Why? Because I don't want to be abused by a guy who's obviously controlling?

Because I don't agree with what you believe to be the "social norm"?

Please.



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15. You must be the outcasts of society.


Story of my life.



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16. You must be really desperate!


For?

It's obviously not love, I get plenty from my darling boyfriend.

It's obviously not friends, I have plenty here in the forum.

It's obviously not attention, because the two groups mentioned above give me plenty.

So, what is it I'm so desperate for?



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17. You’re just jealous that Edward loves Bella and not you!


She can have him.



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18. You don’t even know what you’re talking about!


Bold statements like that should usually be accompanied by proof that what I have previously posted is wrong, dearheart. Because unless you can prove me wrong, the proof I provided (and I usually do provide something), makes my statements more valid than yours, simply because I can back them up with factual evidence.



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19. They all joined together because they know they're hideous and will be lonely and bitter for life.


Got a boyfriend, so that's strike one on hideous, strike two on lonely, and you're out on bitter for life.

And I've found that most Antis joined forums like this because when the big Twilight rush first hit, there was really no escaping it, or the fans. You HAD to like Twilight, or face the wrath of the fanbase.

Antis joined together so they could talk amongst themselves and not be berated for not liking Twilight.



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20. Guess what? You just have a lame obsession with Harry Potter. Oh, and you’re ugly.

HUFFLEPUFF 4 LYFE

To be honest, my 'obsession' with HP died down around the time the fourth movie came out. It's a great series, but seeing it everywhere made me rather sick of it. So, I took a break from the fandom. I'm not as into it as I once was, but I still do like it.

And again with the assumptions...tsk tsk.



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21. You all have nothing better to do than abuse Twilight fans.


But you make it so easy!

Oh, yes I do. I could be reading, I could be studying, I could be doing lots of things. If you ever take an Economics class, you learn that one of the fundamental principles of Economics is that people will choose to do what is best for them at that moment.

So, what is best for me at this moment in time, is posting on the forum.



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22. You hate Twilight because have no self-esteem, so you hate books that emphasize beauty. It’s so logical and obvious!


I don't think the series 'emphasizes' beauty so much as it puts it up on a pedastal and worships it like some sort of twisted diety.

And just because I have low self-esteem at times, it doesn't mean I can't appreciate beauty. It's just we have two separate definitions of what 'beauty' actually is.

To you, it's a sparkling jerk with a douchey haircut/a teenager with sprayed-on abs.

For me, it's a quiet forest on a cloudy day, people's eyes, the simple beauty of seeing two people in love (not lust like Isabitcha and Eddikins), and so on.



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23. You’re all just a hateful cult!


You must be new. Let me tell you about Cullenism.



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24. You probably made up all of the Twilight fan encounters because you want attention, and that’s just sad, since you need to do that because you’re obviously not popular.


I don't doubt that some are fake. Everything on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt as it were.

However, I do know that some of them are true. I have seen fan behaviors so violent, so estranged, so outright insane, that it makes me feel quite normal, thank you.

Oh, and there are the ones that provided proof. We can't forget the evidence, now can we?



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25. You’re probably just a prep/cheerleader/conformist/loser.


Yes, because only the emotionally deep gofik kids like Twilight, right? So everyone who doesn't is automatically a conformist, and you're oh-so original, am I right?

*eyeroll*



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26. God, you have mental problems!


I have yet to meet someone who doesn't.

[Crazy Valentine]

Alexander J Luthor

BREAKING THE HABITS

Alexander J Luthor

NightfallDuet

Alexander J Luthor

NightfallDuet

I'll worship Raptor Jesus! biggrin

As for Scientology, every time I hear it, I think about that nutcase Tom Cruise. Don't ask. I'm not a big fan of his. stare

You know, despite how nutters the guy is, I still love his acting. emotion_kirakira LESTAT. IwaV made me gender confused for a bit. O.o

Someone's a fan-boy? xD

I've seen Interview with a Vampire (well, parts of it) and it was pretty good, decent rather. I tried reading the book, only read half of it because I had to return it to the school library before the semester was over. >_<

I dont know why, but my favorite part is where Lestat is dancing with the corpse of Claudia's dead mother.

HABIT SPEAKS...

I RATHER ENJOY THAT PART AS WELL.

....YOU MAY GO BACK TO LIVING YOUR FOOLISH LIVES NOW

Hey can I help it that I'm going for HABIT, who does type with caps lock, in that in that account. >.>;

[Shibuyakouzorinanamushi]

"If you hate Twilight, You’re probably just a prep/cheerleader/conformist/loser."

That's just contradicting itself altogether.

[Crazy Valentine]

Shibuyakouzorinanamushi

"If you hate Twilight, You’re probably just a prep/cheerleader/conformist/loser."

That's just contracting itself altogether.

Yup

[Minerva de Sade]

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Minerva got (most of) her homework done, so it's time for part three of her grand rebuttals! (Which I'm still doing because I'm bored. Bluh.)

Also, doing sections C and D in one post because they're short.



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C. You Just Hate…

1. You just hate romances.


Absolutely not! I adore a good romance. It's my achiellies' heel. Twilight, however, I fail to see the 'romance' in. Lust, yes. 'Romance'? No.

And before you argue with me about how much Isabitcha and Eddikins 'luv each other 5evar!!!!apple1!', I would like to point out that a relationship based on looks (Bella thinks Edward's hot), and smells (Edward thinks Bella smells delicious), and not much else, isn't romance. It's lust. As soon as Bella discovers that these people have imortality, she's whining for Edward to turn her. Edward goes on about how he hates all the superficial girls who do nothing but fawn over his looks, so as soon as he can read Bella's mind he should have dumped her, right? WRONG. Edward still 'loves' her, despite how many times he said he hates girls who think like her.

'but bella's not liek dat!!!!', right? Again, wrong. She's done nothing but fawn over Edward's looks and talent since they were a 'couple'.

My theory? Bella only stuck with Edward for the imortality (and the bed-breaking sex).



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2. You only hate it because everyone else likes it!


Well, by that logic, I should stop playing Skyrim, I should stop watching Sherlock, I should stop watching MLP: FiM, I should stop reading Homestuck, I should stop listening to music, I should never mention Harry Potter again....you see where I'm going with this?

If not, let me spell it out for you: I like lots of popular things. But, just because they are popular, it doesn't mean everyone thinks they're good. Quantity =/= Quality. Just because something sold Xmillion amount of copies, or X amount of people love it, it doesn't mean that it's THE BEST THING EVAR!!!!!1!!

Example: Nazism.

So, just because Twilight is 'popular', it doesn't mean it's good, and it doesn't mean that 'everyone' likes it.



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3. You just hate Mormons, don’t you?


While I don't agree with some of their doctrines, no.

Simply because I disagree with someone's religion, it doesn't mean I 'hate' everyone that follows it.



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4. You just hate vampire/werewolf stories!


Ah....haha.....ahhahahahahahahahahahahah......AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Oh, wait...you were serious?

Allow me to explain. I love vampires, and I love werewolves. These were two reasons I was compelled to pick up Twilight in the first place. However, I don't agree with Meyer's version of vampires.

That being said, I moved on to other YA vampire/werewolf stories. Like Eternal by Cynthia Leitich Smith.

Eternal's about a young girl who gets turned into a vampire. But wait, there's more! Her guardian angel, due to him revealing himself in an effort to save her life (Because after watching her for all the years she was alive, he slowly fell in love with her, and he knew she was going to die, and he wanted to prevent it, despite the rules), he was pretty much knocked down to fallen status.

Later, it's revealed that she didn't technically 'die', but she was turned by the vampire that holds the title "dracul", which is pretty much the head honcho. The angel then gets a chance to redeem himself, by killing her.

The story goes on, pretty much detailing how he reveals his love for her, and how his mission turns out (I'd rather not spoil it).

The next book, Tantalize, revolves around a girl who inherited her family's restauraunt, and her werewolf friend (who later becomes boyfriend). A vampire sneaks into the restauraunt, and slowly starts to turn all the patrons by giving them bits of his blood.

A fight ensues, and the girl and the werewolf have to save the town from the vampire.

Then the third book, Blesssed, combines characters from the first two books, in an effort to stop the vampire.

So, yeah. I don't like werewolf/vampire stories. No sir.



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5. You just hate things that are popular!


I already went over this but....

Well, by that logic, I should stop playing Skyrim, I should stop watching Sherlock, I should stop watching MLP: FiM, I should stop reading Homestuck, I should stop listening to music, I should never mention Harry Potter again....you see where I'm going with this?

If not, let me spell it out for you: I like lots of popular things. But, just because they are popular, it doesn't mean everyone thinks they're good. Quantity =/= Quality. Just because something sold Xmillion amount of copies, or X amount of people love it, it doesn't mean that it's THE BEST THING EVAR!!!!!1!!

Example: Nazism.



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D. Challenges

1. If you think Twilight sucked, why don't you go write a bestseller?


*cough*Stephen King*coughcough*

Do you have to be a chef to know you like/dislike a food? Do you have to be a cop to know that murder is wrong? Do you have to be a writer to know when a book is good/bad? No.

I don't have to be a bestselling novelist to know a bad book when I read it.

And on the flipside of that, you can't say anything good about it unless you're a bestselling novelist, if you want to play by those rules.



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2. Go to college and get an education! You really need it!


I fail to see how not liking a book means I need an education.

But, if you must know, I'm currently attending design school to become a graphic designer. If that's not good enough for you, my college level English teacher said she will NEVER read Twilight. Ever.



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3. Since you love sounding intelligent, why don't you make videos and groups about books you love instead of wasting your energy on something negative?


Ah, but it's so much harder to learn from something that makes little to no mistakes! Sure, we can learn what they did right, but where's the fun in that?

It's much easier to learn from mistakes. So you know what not to do. And you also don't just end up copying someone else's style of writing.



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4. You try moving to Forks and see how you like the weather!


If it really was rainy all the time, I'd adore it.

Too much sunshine makes me cranky.



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5. Twilight haters always just repeat the same arguments over and over again. If you're going to criticize it, at least think of something original.


And, yet, all I hear are these same tired old arguments against my opinion (and some facts) of the books....so much so, that this is a premade list, and I already have premade responses.

Oh, and have you heard of Twilight Bingo, by any chance? It's a simple enough game, really. You just go on a discussion board, just like this one, and you wait until a twilighter just like you comes along, and you mark down their response on your card if you see it.

It doesn't take long to get a bingo, let me tell you.

[Mage Luna]

Minerva de Sade

♒ caligulasAquarium
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I love these posts, I'm going to find your first one soon.

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Like Eternal by Cynthia Leitich Smith.

Eternal's about a young girl who gets turned into a vampire. But wait, there's more! Her guardian angel, due to him revealing himself in an effort to save her life (Because after watching her for all the years she was alive, he slowly fell in love with her, and he knew she was going to die, and he wanted to prevent it, despite the rules), he was pretty much knocked down to fallen status.

Later, it's revealed that she didn't technically 'die', but she was turned by the vampire that holds the title "dracul", which is pretty much the head honcho. The angel then gets a chance to redeem himself, by killing her.

The story goes on, pretty much detailing how he reveals his love for her, and how his mission turns out (I'd rather not spoil it).

The next book, Tantalize, revolves around a girl who inherited her family's restauraunt, and her werewolf friend (who later becomes boyfriend). A vampire sneaks into the restauraunt, and slowly starts to turn all the patrons by giving them bits of his blood.

A fight ensues, and the girl and the werewolf have to save the town from the vampire.

Then the third book, Blesssed, combines characters from the first two books, in an effort to stop the vampire.

I think I know the next piece of vampire lit I'm going to read.

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2. Go to college and get an education! You really need it!

I fail to see how not liking a book means I need an education.

But, if you must know, I'm currently attending design school to become a graphic designer. If that's not good enough for you, my college level English teacher said she will NEVER read Twilight. Ever.

My English Professor last semester had everyone send in a sample of bad writing. Twilight was the second most used piece of more writing. First was "Friday" and third was "My Immortal". Yes, more people thought Twilight sucked than what's been hailed as the worst Harry Potter fan fiction written.

[Minerva de Sade]

Mage Luna

I love these posts, I'm going to find your first one soon.

[[snip]]

I think I know the next piece of vampire lit I'm going to read.

[[snip]]

My English Professor last semester had everyone send in a sample of bad writing. Twilight was the second most used piece of more writing. First was "Friday" and third was "My Immortal". Yes, more people thought Twilight sucked than what's been hailed as the worst Harry Potter fan fiction written.

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Wait, the first post like that, or the first post I made on the thread? Because I've posted on the thread before I started doing these.

EEEEEEEE. YES. READ EEEET. 8D I'd love to have someone to talk to about it! No one I know has read it!

And that last bit is just really not surprising, but still pretty damn funny.

[Minerva de Sade]

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Time for Round 3. Let's go!

(Again, doing two sections because they're short.)



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E. Questioning Anti-Twlighters

1. If you hated it so much, why would you read it and analyze it?


How would I know I hated it if I didn't?

Truth be told, I enjoy analyzing books, even if I don't enjoy the book itself. The English language is quite the odd duck when it comes to language sometimes, and I enjoy learning and exploring all the little facets and rules and quirks that makes it so unique compared to all the other languages in the world.



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2. If you hate it, why would you make a website about it?


I imagine it was made so people could have a place to express their opinion without being unfairly censored by mods who didn't share their opinions.



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3. If you didn’t like the first one, why did you keep reading the series?


Because I wanted to see if it got better. Because I was told by twihards like you that I had to read the whole thing to understand it. Because I wanted to see how Meyer embarassed herself next.

The list goes on for quite a bit.



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4. OMG, it’s just a book! Why are you taking it so seriously?


Because, contrary to popular belief, I think writing is SRS BZNS. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and there's so much to it.

And there are writers who take their jobs very seriously. Because it's what they've slaved for, what they've bled, sweated, and cried for. They've put their hearts on a page to show the world. And, yet, some of them are still struggling while Meyer can just barf rainbows and glitter on a page, and make millions of dollars.

I know publishers market what "sells", but I can't help but think of the amazing book(s) that could have been published if not for Twilight. Now publishers want some of that success, so they're taking in similar books, filled with teenaged lust and drama.

As someone who writes (for fun, mostly), I can't help but think it's a little unfair.

That's why it's serious for me.



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5. You don’t read it? Do you read AT ALL?


Yeah. I just don't limit myself to one bookseries. I read lots.

I grew up in a house that valued reading. My mother, despite being dyslexic, read to me every night when I was little, tracing her finger along the words as she read them aloud to me. She would always read really slow, because the words would get jumbled up for her if she didn't.

And it's because of that decision my mother made that I value reading so much. I leared quickly, thanks to my mother, and before I was even in kindergarden I was reading books by myself. And I never stopped.

I don't think I could tell you how many books I've read.



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6. If you hated the books, why would you buy them?


And waste my precious monies (and give it to Meyer)? Aw hell naw. Libraries, dear.

I always library preview my books. So I don't waste my money buying crap.



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7. Don’t you know that the Twilight series made millions of kids read?


I never said that was a bad thing. I think it's fantastic that people are getting excited about reading again.

However, I don't think it's especially helpful if they only read Twilight. I think Twilight can be used as a gateway to other, more challenging books.



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8. You don’t like Twilight? But I thought you were a fan of great literature!


*eyetwitch*

Look, and I'm going to use small words to explain this.... In my opinion, Twilight. Is. Not. "Great". "Literature". In any sense of the word.

Great books are ones that inspire us to do amazing things, inspire us to delve into other worlds, fill us with a sense of wonder and imagination not seen since childhood. They make us feel emotion, they make us stay up late at night, unable to stop turning their pages....and if Twilight made you feel that way, that's fine. It didn't make me feel that way.

I just wanted it to be over. I didn't want to keep reading. I didn't want to turn the pages. I felt my stomach churn as I was forced to live the life of Bella Swan and all her internal (and self-inflicted) drama.

I just don't think "great literature" includes books that tell young girls it's okay to go jump off a cliff if your boyfriend of three months leaves you.



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9. Why do you have to make everything so boring?


Boring for you, maybe. I'm having lots of fun!



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10. Why do you hate it? Seriously, like, everyone loves it, so…


Define 'everyone'. Because I'm pretty sure that includes ME.

Just because 'everyone' likes something, it doesn't make it the best thing ever. 'Everyone' likes Kim Kardashian, 'everyone' likes Jersey Shore. And yet, I'm sure someone could say lots of bad things about these two examples (myself included).

As to why I hate it, well, that's a rant for another time (or you could just lurk around the forum. I'm pretty sure you'll dig up one of my old posts).



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F. Denial of the Existence of the First Amendment

1. How DARE you say something against (our beloved) Twilight!


How dare you imply that Twilight is 'the best book EVAR!!!1apple!'.



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2. We can say whatever we want to! "Freedom of speech, baby!"


You do realize that 'Freedom of Speech' only protects you from the government from passing a law that restricts what you can and can't say, right?

Because it doesn't protect you from other people's negative opinions.



Wikipedia

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, the Supreme Court has applied the First Amendment to each state. This was done through the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court has also recognized a series of exceptions to provisions protecting the freedom of speech.



So, if you can say whatever YOU want, so can I. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



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3. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.


Then why haven't you taken a vow of silence yet?

Besides, if everyone only said nice things, well, we wouldn't live in reality anymore, would we?

Do me a favor, and don't become a graphic designer or a writer. Because you will have people who 'don't have anything nice to say' to you. Because that's called a 'critique'. And I'm sure you won't like it at all.



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4. WE DON'T LIKE YOU! GO AWAY! LEAVE ME ALONE!


WHY ARE WE YELLING?

But seriously. If you don't like what I have to say, don't reply to what I said previously. No one's making you post. If you don't like what someone has to say in a thread, don't post in it unless you can add to the conversation in a calm, logical manner.



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5. You can express your opinion, but you seriously need to shut up.


Logical fallacy, thy name is Twihard.

So, I can express my opinion (thanks for giving me permission, by the way), but I can't say anything.

Do you want me to express it in interprative dance?



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6. No one wants to hear what you have to say! If you hate Twilight, no one wants to hear it!


Apparently not. I've made several friends who love to hear what I have to say on the topic. Just because you don't want to hear it, it doesn't mean 'everyone' does.



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7. I don't have a problem with you bashing Twilight, but just keep it to yourself.

Logical fallacy, thy name is Twihard.

So, I can express my opinion (thanks for giving me permission, by the way), but I can't say anything. To anyone. Ever.

Hate to break it to you, but I will not be silenced by a group of people who are immature enough to say something like this. Simply because you don't like to hear it, it doesn't mean people won't say anything.



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8. Stop ruining it for those who like it!


If a few negative opinions of something you like 'ruins' it for you, you must not have liked it very much in the first place.



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9. Honestly, your opinion doesn’t even matter to anyone!


It matters to ME. Don't I count?



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10. You can’t tell these fans that they’re delusional! That’s not nice! In fact, that’s immoral!


If a fan tells me that they're 'waiting for Edward to come and make them a vampire', I'm going to tell them they need mental help.

I fail to see how pointing out that someone needs help for wanting to be turned into a vampire by a fictional vampre is 'immoral'.



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11. You have no right to insult a movie!


Honey, I could make money insulting a movie. Like, legitimately.

It's called being a movie critic.



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12. Your opinion does not matter because I do not like you!


Alright. Not going to stop me from saying it.



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13. If you don’t have anything nice to say, then shut your face!


Then why haven't you taken a vow of silence yet?

Besides, if everyone only said nice things, well, we wouldn't live in reality anymore, would we?

Do me a favor, and don't become a graphic designer or a writer. Because you will have people who 'don't have anything nice to say' to you. Because that's called a 'critique'. And I'm sure you won't like it at all.



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14. I can’t believe Twilight hate exists! That’s such a crime!


Against what? Your personal beliefs?

Because it's certainly not a crime against literature. In fact, I got a medal for it.



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15. I hate when haters of Twilight still talk about it. Hating something means you don't talk about it period! So that means no commentary.


Oh, then I should shut up about religious authorities telling me what I can and can't do with my body. I should shut up about blatent racism/sexisim/*insert something here*-ism. I should shut up about Rick Santorum being a bible-thumping, homophobic, douche nozzle.

Is that what you're trying to say?

Oh, and I just love it that you're talking about hating on the "haters". If you hate something, you shouldn't talk about it, right?



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16. It saddens me to think that people actually hate Twilight. It shouldn't be allowed.


It's called "Having a different opinion than you", and it's only not allowed when you live in a country whos government doesn't like its citizens talking back.



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17. You people have lost your brains, if you even had one. The Twilight saga owns everything! You all have bad opinions! Twilight owns...that's not an opinion, that's the truth!


"Truth" can be backed up with facts. Provide some, please.

And everyone has a brain. If we didn't, we'd be dead. We need those to breathe.

[Shibuyatakahidenbramushi]

Mage Luna

Minerva de Sade

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

I love these posts, I'm going to find your first one soon.

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Like Eternal by Cynthia Leitich Smith.

Eternal's about a young girl who gets turned into a vampire. But wait, there's more! Her guardian angel, due to him revealing himself in an effort to save her life (Because after watching her for all the years she was alive, he slowly fell in love with her, and he knew she was going to die, and he wanted to prevent it, despite the rules), he was pretty much knocked down to fallen status.

Later, it's revealed that she didn't technically 'die', but she was turned by the vampire that holds the title "dracul", which is pretty much the head honcho. The angel then gets a chance to redeem himself, by killing her.

The story goes on, pretty much detailing how he reveals his love for her, and how his mission turns out (I'd rather not spoil it).

The next book, Tantalize, revolves around a girl who inherited her family's restauraunt, and her werewolf friend (who later becomes boyfriend). A vampire sneaks into the restauraunt, and slowly starts to turn all the patrons by giving them bits of his blood.

A fight ensues, and the girl and the werewolf have to save the town from the vampire.

Then the third book, Blesssed, combines characters from the first two books, in an effort to stop the vampire.

I think I know the next piece of vampire lit I'm going to read.

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2. Go to college and get an education! You really need it!

I fail to see how not liking a book means I need an education.

But, if you must know, I'm currently attending design school to become a graphic designer. If that's not good enough for you, my college level English teacher said she will NEVER read Twilight. Ever.

My English Professor last semester had everyone send in a sample of bad writing. Twilight was the second most used piece of more writing. First was "Friday" and third was "My Immortal". Yes, more people thought Twilight sucked than what's been hailed as the worst Harry Potter fan fiction written.

But My Immortal is funny... Twilight is just sad.

[Sulina]

Minerva: reading your responses cracks me up.

[Mage Luna]

@Minerva
I meant your first post about the stock list of Twihard comebacks. If you're looking at the same thing I read a month ago, you'll find something really priceless about fantasy characters.

@Shibuyatakahidenbram
In my opinion, the only thing stopping "My Immortal" from being the most hilarious crack fan fic ever written is the bad grammar and consistency errors.

[Countess K]

Mage Luna

In my opinion, the only thing stopping "My Immortal" from being the most hilarious crack fan fic ever written is the bad grammar and consistency errors.

But, those consistency errors and bad grammar make it so much more funny! Such as in the A/N - "Ebony's name is Enoby!!" or when Harry shot a spell out of his womb.

[Minerva de Sade]

Sulina

Minerva: reading your responses cracks me up.

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Thank you very much. That comes from years of experience of internet debate and dealing with Twihards. I'm glad I could share.

[Minerva de Sade]

Mage Luna

@Minerva
I meant your first post about the stock list of Twihard comebacks. If you're looking at the same thing I read a month ago, you'll find something really priceless about fantasy characters.

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

My first response is on page seventeen.

And now, for more!




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G. Defending Edward

1. Edward isn't abusive! He loves and protects Bella! That's just his character!


There's a line between 'loving and protecting' and 'controlling and manipulating'. Edward shows time and time again that he's simply controlling Bella 'for her own good' (i.e. when he takes parts out of her engine so she can't go visit Jacob.). Manipulating the person you 'love' is wrong. Telling them what they can and cannot do is wrong. A relationship is give and take, not just take.

Edward can't just be the 'Boss of Bella'. Besides, if Bella were the 'modern-day-teen-who-comes-from-a-broken-home-and-is-smart-and-witty' like Meyer makes her out to be, she wouldn't put up with this s**t at all. Vampire or not, she'd tell him off.

I don't think that being that manipulative and controlling is healthy in a relationship. Ever.



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2. Edward isn't a stalker! It's so romantic that he watches Bella while she sleeps.


Following a person without their knowledge during the time they are being followed is considered 'stalking'.



Wikipedia

Stalking can be defined as the willful and repeated following, watching and/or harassing of another person.



See? Stalking.



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3. Edward didn’t rape Bella! They were having sex!


*EDIT* (and a big thanks to Muffin the Orphan and Haunting Haven for correcting me on this/posting a snippet, considering I haven't really read it myself)

Alright fine. I've read the bit. And it does sound like awkward, first-time sex, not rape.



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4. Edward is SO hot/sexy/the sex.


Apparently, stalker-y, manipulative, controlling, douche-nozzle rapists are the thing now.



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5. But Edward’s old fashioned!


See, I'd buy this if he acted old fashioned all the time and in all his mannerisms, rather than just SOME of them. It wouldn't be too 'odd' if he acted a little like a typical seventeen year old from his time period. However, he acts like a 'modern' guy all the time, so you can't really say he's 'old fashioned'.

What would really help is if Meyer did her damn research.



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6. It’s not stalking if Bella’s asleep, you know.


Yes it is.



Wikipedia

Stalking can be defined as the willful and repeated following, watching and/or harassing of another person.



And Bella didn't know he was there until he told her. He even came into her room and sat in a chair to watch her sleep. Way to add breaking and entering on top of your stalking charges there, Ed.



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7. So what if Edward’s perverted? He’s still hot!


Really?

I mean, I love hot villains. Don't get me wrong. (Knives from Trigun? Loki? Jan/Luke Valentine from Hellsing? I could go on...) However, while they are hot, in my opinion, I don't use that as a get out of jail free card for their crimes. All the villains I just mentioned in the parentheses are cold-blooded killers. They've killed lots of people. And that's horrible.

However, I like them because they've done these things, you see? I like them because they're evil, not just because they're hot.

And Edward's a murderer too. I don't like him, but he is one. Just because he's 'hot' to you, doesn't mean you can automatically excuse his crimes.



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8. Edward Cullen is better than any guy out there!


NO. NO HE'S NOT. STOP THAT. [/capsrape]

*ahem*

You must not have much experience with men, then. Please come back when you've experienced someone who can truly be a gentleman, or at the very least a man, not a forever-puberty, angsty, whiny, tantrum-throwing boy.

And before anyone says anything, inb4:






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9. Edward is a vampire and thus he is INVINCIBLE!


Apparently not if I get another vampire (or a werewolf) to tear him apart and set the pieces on fire. (Doesn't anybody remember James?)



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10. Don’t insult Edward Cullen! You only insult him because obviously no one will ever love you!


Twihard, I'd like you to meet my boyfriend of three years.



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11. Edward does allow Bella to make her own choices and he has a personality, so I’m going to completely disregard your argument and just say that it makes no sense.


I never said he didn't have a personality. I just said his personality was dickish with a dash of douche-nozzle, and one-dimensional. I never said he didn't have one.

And as for "Bella making her own choices", I have to inform you that it's not really a choice if he presents her with two options, and won't let her take one.

It's like what happened in the Simpsons Movie when the president was asked to pick a plan by the head of the EPA. The EPA guy laid out five plans on the table, and asked the president to pick one. Essentially, the guy ended up making him pick the one he wanted by convincing him he didn't need to know what they were, and quickly got him to pick the fourth plan.

That's kind of how I imagine this going.



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12. Yeah, well, Edward’s real to all of us!


And then you say I'm "mean" when I say you need mental help.



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13. Edward Cullen, you are our angel, the saving grace for all of civilization.


Ohai thar, Cullenist person.



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14. What do you mean Edward has no real personality traits beyond hot and perfect? He’s caring, creative, loving…


According to whom?



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15. Well, she would have wanted him there if she knew he was there! He knows she would have!


I don't think that would hold up in court.

[Mage Luna]

Countess K

Mage Luna

In my opinion, the only thing stopping "My Immortal" from being the most hilarious crack fan fic ever written is the bad grammar and consistency errors.

But, those consistency errors and bad grammar make it so much more funny! Such as in the A/N - "Ebony's name is Enoby!!" or when Harry shot a spell out of his womb.

I forgot about the womb part. The big spelling error I remember is masticating.

Still, the plot on it's own has some epic stupidity. Enoby must stop Voldemort by travelling back in time and getting him to find his lost love (and apparently recording them...).