Yu Yu Hakusho

[I Spirit Fox Kurama I]

/continues to prattle on unconcernedly

[WyndiWingfall]

Yusuke, you are such a charmer.

That aside, while I do think that both of you - Spirit and Hiei - are right in terms of Kurama's and Hiei's ages [we actually had quite a discussion re: Kurama's age way back; it drove us all crazy], I do want to point out that being addressed as a child in YYH really means...nothing. Almost everyone non-human in YYH is ridiculously ancient by human standards - Koenma is seven hundred years old, Kurama is at least three hundred, Yomi is several thousand. When you look at Hiei [who, if you're right, is seven to fourteen], Yusuke [fourteen at the start of the series], and Kuwabara [also fourteen], they're practically infants; no wonder they're all deemed kids. I'm not saying that Hiei's being called a kid doesn't mean anything; I'm just saying that given what we know about the ages of most of the demons in the series...practically anyone could be called a kid.

Anyway, I just said I didn't like the idea of Hiei being seven. That doesn't mean that I thought you were wrong.

On another note, I can actually see why Funimation used demon as opposed to monster or spirit. Monster has a grotesque-evil-beast sort of connotation; spirit is generally too closely associated with ghost.

[Hiei the Epic]

yeah, but then people associate 'demon' with the typical born of hell evil sorts.

it's just poor translation between japanese and english.

kind of annoys me though.

but then a lot of things annoy me.

i find it amusing that by technical terms Hiei is about 7.

[Yurisenpai]

Well, I have also been told here's a difference between Devil and Demon. Devil is the thing in hell (I think this would be an oni, right? I'm not a master of mythology so...) And a demon is just an evil spirit. Or Devil refers to THE Devil. It depends on who you ask.

...Personally demons are just evil mofos so it doesn't matter what you call them. They're also scary as ********. I've seen one before. I know.

[Hiei the Epic]

i think it's more reliant on religious views. Christianity is the leading religion in the west and most people of the west have at the very least basic knowledge and recognition of its terms.

youkai are not necessarily evil. some are even notorious in folklore as being helpful/useful to humans. so the problem is that devil or demon both are defined as evil hellspawns (being that they're western/jewish terms) which is very inaccurate. if they'd just use the term 'youkai' rather than demon, it'd bring less confusion, i think.

oni would technically be a specific kind of youkai. they're usually ogres or trolls. the ogres who work for Koenma are oni, but they aren't malicious in this case, while oni are usually depicted as being so.

random: i'm pretty certain ***** was derived from the european myth of bugbear.

[WyndiWingfall]

I think that for a translation of youkai, demon really is the best fit. Yes, demons are generally associated with evil, but at first glance, the demons we meet are precisely that. It's only after Hiei and Kurama ally themselves with Yusuke and Kuwabara that we see that demons are like humans - that they have the capacity to be either good or evil, just as humans do. [Kurama especially is humanized by his love for his mother.] In essence, we are then taught to view this "evil" beings as equals, and that we shouldn't judge an entire species based on our misconceptions of them.

One of the most prominent themes in YYH is that demons are not always evil just because they're demons [at the end of the series, we learn that the oh so honorable King Enma has really been manipulating youkai for his own purposes] and that humans are not always good just because they're humans [Sensui and formerly the Toguro brothers]. Given that one of the lessons we should be taking away from the series is that everyone has the capacity for both good and evil inside them, the usage of demon, I think, works nicely. It doesn't carry the subtleties that youkai does, but it does prey on what our ideas of demons are - and then disproves them. Which, after all, is the point.

[Hiei the Epic]

i get your point, but i'm more thinking of people who haven't read/watched the whole series. i realize the use of the term for people who are very familiar, but a large amount of the fanbase who... is less intelligent... seem to feel they are actual demons.

i facepalm over it regularly.

[Yurisenpai]

I've seen someone watching the Brazilian dub use the term devils. I'm guessing that part of a weird translation. I dunno why that matters.

It's probably the same people who think anime takes place in the US, which it never does no matter what the translators say. (If they're so American, why is the wheel on the wrong side? And why the hell can't they be on the same side? What's the deal with that anyway?)
That and probably most people don't know much about the mythology in YYH. (I'm kind-of-sort-of one of them. I'm aware that there's a lot of Buddhist beliefs in here, I just don't know what. But I've been told it's about as Buddhist as Supernatural is Christian. Meaning a lot.)

I also really wanted to say this:
I'm gonna punch Yomi's son in the face. Well, he likes it.

Ten points to whoever gets the reference.

[WyndiWingfall]

Er...I am not a Christian and therefore highly uninformed when it comes to Christian beliefs, but...isn't there supposed to be only one Devil [in direct opposition to the one God]?

Kind of sidetracking here, but for certain aspects of the mythology [the Saint Beasts and the members of the Uraotogi team], both the English dub and the English manga translation did explain the origins behind the characters in various extras. I do agree that any explanations of the Buddhist influences, however, are sorely lacking. [Even the obvious example of King Enma is never pointed out. Seriously.]

[Hiei the Epic]

there is one devil, but many demons. in christianity, i mean.

most people are aware.

[Yurisenpai]

There's actually a list of them (Key of Solomon... I guess the dude wanted to lock up all the demons somewhere or something. I dunno. But that's not the point.)

I have a random question. So how do the Ferry Girls/ Shinigami/ Whatever you're supposed to call them get to where they are? I mean, have they always been in that position or were they once human...?
I've seen a lot of people speculate on this but never get a clear cut answer.

[Hiei the Epic]

shinigami are very new to japanese folklore. in the folklore they are lesser gods or, if you will, the equivalent of a very powerful youkai. kinda like almost the same status as inari, but slightly lower. that being the case, i imagine they would be created by Enma.

in YYH, it seems they must go through training or some sort of growth, but they appear to be ageless. Botan mentions at one point that before she was doing her current job, she was just a grim reaper and apparently very out of the loop with things. to me, this indicates they have different status levels based on experience/training/growth.

[digigirl13]

i love yu yu hakusho! heart kurama is my favorite, human or deman he's hot! 4laugh i even got my sister and best friend into the anime and or manga for it

[Yurisenpai]

...I like how it totally just got all quiet after that last question. I guess that's set in stone...?

How about we go back to Keiko putting out then? Giggity giggity goo.

[WyndiWingfall]

I think you may have stumbled upon an even surer way to maintain the silence with that topic. Since, you know, Gaia is ~PG-13~.