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daisy spice's avatar

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If you're a die hard Tolkien fan and read more than just The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings; you would know that Luthien was a strong female character who went on a dangerous quest.

There was also Eowyn, who played a large part. But I don't think that fighting scenes is what determines a strong character or not.

Also in Tolkien's lore of how Middle Earth was created, under Eru Iluvatar there were several "god" and "Goddess" type characters. If he were truly sexist women would play no part in creation or of being dieties.
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Well, you have to remember she's part of the elven race

THEY'RE ALL SO BEAUTIFUL crying
Elfking Thranduil's avatar

Lavish Elder

Tolkien got a lot of his inspiration for Lord of the Rings from Old Norse mythology and Epics. Mainly in these Epics women are not involved in the adventure; mostly they are in the background as passive characters who may indirectly or directly influence the course of the story without leaving home to fight enemies and whatnot. It's totally understandable in that aspect. The "quest" is normally honor-based, and women are outside the realm of honor and reciprocation for misdeeds which is the driving force of most Epics.
The women who do get time in the spotlight in these old adventure stories are normally ones that know some sort of magic, and more often than not have questionable motives. Of course keeping in alignment with mythology he does have some strong females - like daisy pointed out - but they are relative oddities. Even at the end of Eowyn's story in Lord of the Rings she gives up her warrior ways and conforms to the standard female archetype of the "healer".
It's a man's world. I get it. No use bitching about it. It doesn't affect the plot because the plot is all about traditionally masculine endeavors and desires in alignment with the structure of the Epics. And hey, as a woman myself, more manly eyecandy for me. Score.
Connor the Hobbit's avatar

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The Hobbit is pretty great. But was anybody else a bit uncomfortable with the fact that there's only one named female character in the film (and none in the book, I think) and that she's written in a way that makes her main character trait 'being super beautiful'?

I know the film is based on a book that was written when there was no concern about women's representation in popular culture, so maybe that excuses the film? I don't know. It made me uncomfortable.

Otherwise, it's an excellent film, I think.

her main character trait is being wise. being elegant and beautiful is secondary. to think she is only there for sex appeal is sexist of you!

but regardless, it was written in a different time, when men were the only ones that went to war or had any sort of adventure.
Jackson probably notices the lack of females and added her in for that reason. He also made Arwen a much more prominent character in LOTR.
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._. I didn't even notice.
Not every gender/race/culture and be put in EVERY SINGLE EVERYTHING. I swear people b***h and wine about everything, commercials, movies, books, if a race wasn't in it enough, or woman wern't as popular as the men,
It's like saying "Well I was uncomfortable with the lack of ammount of African American lesbian transgenders in this film. I think they could have done better and am therefore offended. This movie sucks and should feel bad."
Slaaneshi Horror's avatar

Omnipresent Abomination

I dunno how I can face palm any harder than I did reading this crap.
I'm not going to touch on the time in which this book was written.
That was already addressed by more than a few people.
I think a bigger thing to think about, whether this world is fantasy or no, is that this is a medieval setting.
In medieval times, women were PROPERTY.
Not people.
That's great you want everything rainbows and unicorns, but if you want to get historically accurate for the type of setting Middle Earth takes, Tolkien went pretty far out of his way to give women something other than "trophy" status.
Tolkien kept his story believable.
I know that hurts to hear it, but it's true.
If I want to read a fantasy where woman are respected in medieval settings, I'll watch anime, where s**t doesn't make any sense or follow any sort of historical logic.
misty sundays's avatar

Anxious Gekko

I'm actually pretty excited about this Tauriel elf chick joining the Hobbit movies. You can never never enough badass elf chicks.
I was kind of annoyed when Arwen eclipsed Eowyn's role in the LOTR movies but y'know it's better than nothing.
if I wanted social justice crap I coulda just gone to tumblr
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Wait a moment? There was a female character in a movie? Didn't notice that.
Thorin and his warrior drarfes were so cool and hot that I didn't even care about the women lol
Sad to say, but this was me too. I completely didn't notice, but that is probably because I don't view the world through those lenses. Racist, sexist, etc things often go over my head. Mainly because I'm not PC myself and find humor in a lot of these things (not socially acceptable, but I don't really care). People in general rarely ever hold true to their lofty ideas about -isms and I find their rants more hypocritical and fluff than anything else and believe that they lack practicality or any real understanding of human nature.
Nah, I don't mind. Not when this is based on a book which is simply a reflection of its time. -shrug-
Tay Lorien's avatar

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The White Council part was in the LOTR Appendix telling us where Gandalf keeps disappearing too in The Hobbit, and that is why it's in The Hobbit movie.

Anyways, yeah, women were given bigger roles in LOTR movies to fill in gaps where there were minor characters that we would only briefly seen and lot of people who never read the books wouldn't understand. Like how Arwen rescued Frodo, but in the book it was actually Glorfindel, who may have been the same Glorfindel of Gondolin, resurrected. Since Elves can be reborn.


Glad someone else noticed Glorfindel's absence. It was just another way of giving Arwen some action. Same thing happened in the Hobbit, putting Galadriel in just to have a female. It's annoying, mostly that it is necessary in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I heart Kate Blanchett as Galadriel, but if you weren't in the books originally, why are you there now?

Same with Radagast. Only barely mentioned (and not in the Hobbit, but in LOTR), and yet here he is... And yet they took out Tom Bombadil in LOTR (though I heard they put it back in the extended cuts).
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I didn't really notice that there was a lack of female characters. and I'm not really bothered by it either. it was the writer's choice to make things like that. maybe he wanted to emphasize the "band of brothers" theme. what really annoys me is all the people that shrug and say "Well, it was just the era that it was written it". BzzzBzzz, Wrong! there's a long history of strong female characters in British/American literature dating back nearly 100 years before LoR or the Hobbit was written. to just shrug one's shoulders and say "Well, that's just the way things are done." is never a good idea.
Qyp's avatar

Manly Lunatic

Tay Lorien
Qyp
The White Council part was in the LOTR Appendix telling us where Gandalf keeps disappearing too in The Hobbit, and that is why it's in The Hobbit movie.

Anyways, yeah, women were given bigger roles in LOTR movies to fill in gaps where there were minor characters that we would only briefly seen and lot of people who never read the books wouldn't understand. Like how Arwen rescued Frodo, but in the book it was actually Glorfindel, who may have been the same Glorfindel of Gondolin, resurrected. Since Elves can be reborn.


Glad someone else noticed Glorfindel's absence. It was just another way of giving Arwen some action. Same thing happened in the Hobbit, putting Galadriel in just to have a female. It's annoying, mostly that it is necessary in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I heart Kate Blanchett as Galadriel, but if you weren't in the books originally, why are you there now?

Same with Radagast. Only barely mentioned (and not in the Hobbit, but in LOTR), and yet here he is... And yet they took out Tom Bombadil in LOTR (though I heard they put it back in the extended cuts).

No, Tom isn't in the extended version.

The thing with The White Council part, is because it happened during the events of the Hobbit, same with Gandalf's visit to Dol Guldur. I think Radagast's part just made up for him not being in LOTR... also, The Hobbit needs a lot of comedy to keep it "not as serious" as it's supposed to be.
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Tay Lorien's avatar

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Qyp
Tay Lorien
Qyp
The White Council part was in the LOTR Appendix telling us where Gandalf keeps disappearing too in The Hobbit, and that is why it's in The Hobbit movie.

Anyways, yeah, women were given bigger roles in LOTR movies to fill in gaps where there were minor characters that we would only briefly seen and lot of people who never read the books wouldn't understand. Like how Arwen rescued Frodo, but in the book it was actually Glorfindel, who may have been the same Glorfindel of Gondolin, resurrected. Since Elves can be reborn.


Glad someone else noticed Glorfindel's absence. It was just another way of giving Arwen some action. Same thing happened in the Hobbit, putting Galadriel in just to have a female. It's annoying, mostly that it is necessary in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I heart Kate Blanchett as Galadriel, but if you weren't in the books originally, why are you there now?

Same with Radagast. Only barely mentioned (and not in the Hobbit, but in LOTR), and yet here he is... And yet they took out Tom Bombadil in LOTR (though I heard they put it back in the extended cuts).

No, Tom isn't in the extended version.

The thing with The White Council part, is because it happened during the events of the Hobbit, same with Gandalf's visit to Dol Guldur. I think Radagast's part just made up for him not being in LOTR... also, The Hobbit needs a lot of comedy to keep it "not as serious" as it's supposed to be.


I was looking forward to Tom and Goldberry, so I was disappointed when they didn't have him. Also disappointed with how they got their swords from Aragorn instead of the Barrow Downs.

I guess I can understand why they put things in that happened during but not in the book itself. But all it does is make the movie longer unnecessarily.
Qyp's avatar

Manly Lunatic

Tay Lorien
Qyp
Tay Lorien
Qyp
The White Council part was in the LOTR Appendix telling us where Gandalf keeps disappearing too in The Hobbit, and that is why it's in The Hobbit movie.

Anyways, yeah, women were given bigger roles in LOTR movies to fill in gaps where there were minor characters that we would only briefly seen and lot of people who never read the books wouldn't understand. Like how Arwen rescued Frodo, but in the book it was actually Glorfindel, who may have been the same Glorfindel of Gondolin, resurrected. Since Elves can be reborn.


Glad someone else noticed Glorfindel's absence. It was just another way of giving Arwen some action. Same thing happened in the Hobbit, putting Galadriel in just to have a female. It's annoying, mostly that it is necessary in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I heart Kate Blanchett as Galadriel, but if you weren't in the books originally, why are you there now?

Same with Radagast. Only barely mentioned (and not in the Hobbit, but in LOTR), and yet here he is... And yet they took out Tom Bombadil in LOTR (though I heard they put it back in the extended cuts).

No, Tom isn't in the extended version.

The thing with The White Council part, is because it happened during the events of the Hobbit, same with Gandalf's visit to Dol Guldur. I think Radagast's part just made up for him not being in LOTR... also, The Hobbit needs a lot of comedy to keep it "not as serious" as it's supposed to be.


I was looking forward to Tom and Goldberry, so I was disappointed when they didn't have him. Also disappointed with how they got their swords from Aragorn instead of the Barrow Downs.

I guess I can understand why they put things in that happened during but not in the book itself. But all it does is make the movie longer unnecessarily.

Actually if the movies were exactly by the books... EXACTLY... it would've been 6 LOTR movies. Peter Jackson said he cut out all the bits that were not entirely necessary. Which is true in a way, Glorfindel and Tom are filler in some ways. Though I always considered TOm to be of either the Maiar, or Eru himself (Basically a Jesus-like form, but in a form familiar to the nearby peoples, The Hobbits). Probably why The Hobbit is now a trilogy XD

I can't remember much... but didn't Fangorn/Treebeard say he knew Tom in the book?

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