EliasEndel
heh and as I said, I beleive its a tad beyond the scope of the discussion, for the purpose of this thread, it can be assumed that the japanese vision of beauty tends to be that of whites. The sociopolitical reasoning behind this though is irrelevant to the actual discussion. again, a small point, I'm just fairly picky about that sort of thing.
I think you've stated this too much for it to even be considered redundant but now has entered the zone of pointless.
Yeah.
You don't want to talk about it.
Doesn't mean it doesn't pertain to the given discussion. OTHER people might find this interesting and might want to address it in regards to the current given topic.
Okay?
Okay.
Mein Gott.
Ananel
*sighs*
Here
What I am trying to drive home is that, in general, there is no depiction of ethnicity. Where there is a depiction of ethnicity, it is similar to
Kiddy Phenil, the creation of a standard, stock, run of the mill ethnicized character from the late eighties and early nineties. Kia Asimiya's work may as well be a drawing board for an aspiring mangaka here or in Japan, given his almost slavish attention to the forms of the classic characters. I could list you the positive to neutral character lists until I was blue in the face, but really, it would border on pointless.
You focus on the negatives and refer to them as the rule. I refer to them as exceptions because depictions of race were the exception and still are, and actively african american characters (as opposed to comical Djinn like Popo) are usually drawn in a fashion similar to Kiddy Phenil, with only a change in the shading of their skin indicating much of anything. The rule stands, based upon the standard forms as they are trained and used in an operative fashion throughout the manga and anime world. They're so consistent as to almost hamper artists on occasion.
EVEN if there's very little depiction of minorities or identifying some sort of ethnicity to a character, that doesn't disregard the fact that when, in older animes, they were to depict people of african decent, they tend to lean towards minstrel-esque characatures. You're failing to comprehend the fact that we're not talking about a general thing. We ARE discussing situations in which they DO assign some sort of ethnic identity. Though it does not hold true to a lot of more recent and newer animes, when you look at the past, that's how it usually was.
That's like saying in older american cartoons, because blacks and native americans weren't represented fairly often, the fact that when they
did represent them, they represented them in such stereotypical and almost demeaning type imagery, it was merely an 'exception' because they weren't constantly being depicted.
Well guess what.
Things don't actually
work like that.
The point of this discussion IS to point out such isolated incidents BECAUSE the imagery of ethnicity is so rare and to actually analyze them. If you want to go on and be all hunky dory about everything then okay. But actually take the time to fully comprehend WHY people are talking about the subject matter in the way that they are rather than try to assume pointless drivel.
I'm fully well aware that for the most part, anime characters are void of any ethnicity. I've pointed that out SEVERAL times.
s**t.
Quote:
In my view, you have simply had a bad experience, having seen characters intended for complete comedic purposes in badly drawn 80s shounen kids stuff. Heck, if you wish to argue 80's styles, you can begin to argue that creatures like
Star Platinum were intended on some level to depict african american or african stereotypes, or at the very least Aztec or other multicultural themes. Classic of the style of the Fist of the North Star, the set of comics coming out of the Raijin era bears no 'blackface' style to it, but rather the same statuesque imagery, bearing only changes in styles of dress and coloring of the skin.
I'm not speaking on bad experiences. I'm pointing out examples that are newly stated, as well as examples that have been stated over and over again and ACKNOWLEDGING them. I'm not disregarding the fact that there ARE people who DIDN'T fall into that, what would really appear to be the norm. We're not talking about obscure creatures here, as has already been stated when the subject of Jynx from Pokemon was brought up. We're talking about characters who are SUPPOSED to be depicting actual black characters.
Quote:
You label things, in my view, quite improperly. You're not familiar with the methods of art as they're trained, and you're focused on the negatives to the point that you create rules where rules don't exist. As has been said before, Toriyama's work is not reflective of the entirety of manga, and your choice to take what was clearly intended as a mild mockery of the blackface type, placed on an inhuman immortal djinn who serves a dragon god as a depiction of the african american race... is befuddling.
You know what? I'm not even talking about Toriyama's work exclusively. There are many other artists that I can still remember who have used such imagery who, in all honesty, I'm not going to be able to give a name of. Why? Because I was young, and I didn't think very much of it, so it wasn't going to be something that I'm going to be taking note of. Even when examining old american cartoons, you will see this kind of depiction of minorities. Am I saying this is a bad thing? No. Am I saying that everyone hates black people? No. I'm examining them and asking questions as to
why they have to be depicted in such a manner if, apparently, there is not predisposed prejudice against blacks that so many people wish to believe. I'm fairly sick of having to repeat my points, over and over again. I'm not disregarding those who do not depict blacks in such a way in anyway shape or form, so why the
hell you have an obsession with treating me as such is absolutely beyond me.
And
man, do
not bring up any sort if implication that I am not aware of the methods of arts, the methods of selling a product and what have you. I'm very well aware of what cultural standards that may or may not exist, and I'm
very well aware of the arts,
particularly with things involving cartoons and the like
because that's been something that has constantly facinated me for the entirety of my life, and is a field that I plan on going into if my first career choice does not work out completely. You're basing your opinion of my arguement on complete assumptions while completely disregarding where this could actually be coming from.
So for the last time.
I'm not saying that there weren't artists who do actually show blacks or other minorities as actual humanistic type characters. And I'm sure as hell not saying that in today's world, there aren't. Because of all the newer animes and cartoons I've seen, I've seen much better depiction and imagery of those particular groups. But to try and deny the fact that they exist, but to try and disregard that this might have been a cultural 'problem' in not just Eastern Nations, but in the Western World as well is bullshit and naive. So please, with all due respect,
stop obsessing over the idea that I do not know they exist. Because,
I do, and I've ALREADY brought them up before.
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