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Miss Esa's avatar

Interesting Nerd

elemein

Am I the only one who thinks performance cars should'nt even come in the option of anything even relatively close to auto?
I totally agree with you.
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Miss Esa
elemein

Am I the only one who thinks performance cars should'nt even come in the option of anything even relatively close to auto?
I totally agree with you.


It's like buying a Wii for anything else but parties... Why play Wii tennis when you could JUST GO PLAY TENNIS? The whole point of a performance car is to make you get more in touch with the feeling of driving and make it exciting with the extra power a performance car has... Who thought it was a good idea to add "automatic" to that equation so that they could pretty much remove one of the largest portions of driving?

Worst part? The Hyundai Veloster is considered a "sports car"... Just Wikipedia it if you dont know about it... It looks good; everything past that is not sport. At all.

Even worse than worst? Automatic is becoming more and more common in performance cars. I guess when I'm 36 and wanting a hobby I'm going to have to buy a 40 year old car to make me actually get in touch with driving and make it fun for me... I mean, besides the fact gasoline will be 4.50$ a litre and oil will be hundreds per barrel... Hydrogen engine conversion anyone?

But really car manufacturer's of the world-- wtf?
Miss Esa's avatar

Interesting Nerd

elemein


It's like buying a Wii for anything else but parties... Why play Wii tennis when you could JUST GO PLAY TENNIS? The whole point of a performance car is to make you get more in touch with the feeling of driving and make it exciting with the extra power a performance car has... Who thought it was a good idea to add "automatic" to that equation so that they could pretty much remove one of the largest portions of driving?

Worst part? The Hyundai Veloster is considered a "sports car"... Just Wikipedia it if you dont know about it... It looks good; everything past that is not sport. At all.

Even worse than worst? Automatic is becoming more and more common in performance cars. I guess when I'm 36 and wanting a hobby I'm going to have to buy a 40 year old car to make me actually get in touch with driving and make it fun for me... I mean, besides the fact gasoline will be 4.50$ a litre and oil will be hundreds per barrel... Hydrogen engine conversion anyone?

But really car manufacturer's of the world-- wtf?
I love that comparison.

And I've seen the Veloster. Its ridiculous. Its half sedan and half coupe.

Most people I know are unable to drive a manual car. :/
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Miss Esa
elemein


It's like buying a Wii for anything else but parties... Why play Wii tennis when you could JUST GO PLAY TENNIS? The whole point of a performance car is to make you get more in touch with the feeling of driving and make it exciting with the extra power a performance car has... Who thought it was a good idea to add "automatic" to that equation so that they could pretty much remove one of the largest portions of driving?

Worst part? The Hyundai Veloster is considered a "sports car"... Just Wikipedia it if you dont know about it... It looks good; everything past that is not sport. At all.

Even worse than worst? Automatic is becoming more and more common in performance cars. I guess when I'm 36 and wanting a hobby I'm going to have to buy a 40 year old car to make me actually get in touch with driving and make it fun for me... I mean, besides the fact gasoline will be 4.50$ a litre and oil will be hundreds per barrel... Hydrogen engine conversion anyone?

But really car manufacturer's of the world-- wtf?
I love that comparison.

And I've seen the Veloster. Its ridiculous. Its half sedan and half coupe.

Most people I know are unable to drive a manual car. :/


Aha I love that comparison too. I would'nt exactly beat on the fact that it's half-sedan and half-coupe... I mean, look at the RX-8. I dare you to say that machine doesnt perform well; because it really does !

It's moreso the fact it came in no manual until of recent. It's most powerful engine is 195 ft-lbs; and that's only via a turbo; now 195 ft lbs would be absolutely great like 195 ft lbs in a Mazda Miata is fun for the whole family (all 2 people of the family), but the fact it weighs almost 3000 lbs doesnt help at all.

Did I mention it's front-wheel drive?

Hehehe. Silly Hyundai thinks that's a sports car. They shouldve just stuck with the Genesis Coupe, or even the Tiburon was better...
Crimmy Sun's avatar

Lonely Millionaire

elemein
Miss Esa
elemein


It's like buying a Wii for anything else but parties... Why play Wii tennis when you could JUST GO PLAY TENNIS? The whole point of a performance car is to make you get more in touch with the feeling of driving and make it exciting with the extra power a performance car has... Who thought it was a good idea to add "automatic" to that equation so that they could pretty much remove one of the largest portions of driving?

Worst part? The Hyundai Veloster is considered a "sports car"... Just Wikipedia it if you dont know about it... It looks good; everything past that is not sport. At all.

Even worse than worst? Automatic is becoming more and more common in performance cars. I guess when I'm 36 and wanting a hobby I'm going to have to buy a 40 year old car to make me actually get in touch with driving and make it fun for me... I mean, besides the fact gasoline will be 4.50$ a litre and oil will be hundreds per barrel... Hydrogen engine conversion anyone?

But really car manufacturer's of the world-- wtf?
I love that comparison.

And I've seen the Veloster. Its ridiculous. Its half sedan and half coupe.

Most people I know are unable to drive a manual car. :/


Aha I love that comparison too. I would'nt exactly beat on the fact that it's half-sedan and half-coupe... I mean, look at the RX-8. I dare you to say that machine doesnt perform well; because it really does !

It's moreso the fact it came in no manual until of recent. It's most powerful engine is 195 ft-lbs; and that's only via a turbo; now 195 ft lbs would be absolutely great like 195 ft lbs in a Mazda Miata is fun for the whole family (all 2 people of the family), but the fact it weighs almost 3000 lbs doesnt help at all.

Did I mention it's front-wheel drive?

Hehehe. Silly Hyundai thinks that's a sports car. They shouldve just stuck with the Genesis Coupe, or even the Tiburon was better...


Well Hyundai wasn't trying to make a sports car with the Veloster, the said they had a sports car already, they just wanted a fun little hatchback to round off their line-up.
And I must say they did an amazing job at making one

Also, I dare say that the RX-8 doesn't perform amazingly, they really struggle for power, you're really not getting anything noticeable out of it until like the top of third gear

But if anyone ever gets one, buy the K&N Cyclone intake for it, it sounds amazing
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Crimmy Sun

Well Hyundai wasn't trying to make a sports car with the Veloster, the said they had a sports car already, they just wanted a fun little hatchback to round off their line-up.
And I must say they did an amazing job at making one

Also, I dare say that the RX-8 doesn't perform amazingly, they really struggle for power, you're really not getting anything noticeable out of it until like the top of third gear

But if anyone ever gets one, buy the K&N Cyclone intake for it, it sounds amazing


My pa used to have an RX-8 before his C6... I can personally say I loved the RX-8, no "struggle for power" at any rate. Do you happen to live 600m above sea level where air density is very thin?

And the matter of the fact is; the Veloster is classified as a "sports car"... I never said the Veloster is a bad car, it's good, but for a sports car application? No way.
Crimmy Sun's avatar

Lonely Millionaire

elemein
Crimmy Sun

Well Hyundai wasn't trying to make a sports car with the Veloster, the said they had a sports car already, they just wanted a fun little hatchback to round off their line-up.
And I must say they did an amazing job at making one

Also, I dare say that the RX-8 doesn't perform amazingly, they really struggle for power, you're really not getting anything noticeable out of it until like the top of third gear

But if anyone ever gets one, buy the K&N Cyclone intake for it, it sounds amazing


My pa used to have an RX-8 before his C6... I can personally say I loved the RX-8, no "struggle for power" at any rate. Do you happen to live 600m above sea level where air density is very thin?

And the matter of the fact is; the Veloster is classified as a "sports car"... I never said the Veloster is a bad car, it's good, but for a sports car application? No way.


Well someone forgot to tell that to Hyundai when they introduced it
Cause they seem to think they made a sporty hatchback to fill the gaps in their lineup

And no, my friend has one that I drove around a lot every time i ever did anything to it
they handle nicely, and everything about the car is nice, the only thing that's letting that car down is the terrible engine
We clearly must have different standards of what power is, cause the RX-8 doesn't have any on tap until it's singing in third gear. And my god is the thing just annoying. I dunno if Mazda was high or if I'm just jaded, but it seemed like the fuel economy on that tiny a** engine was s**t for it's size, rotary or not, it was terrible. as well as it needing apex seals on 2 different occasions since I've known the guy. In addition to that, next to no one confidently really wants to touch rotaries, makes things kind of a pain, cause i'm also one of them

personally I also like a stiffer ride, but that's just me, not really a critique on the car

But you can't honestly tell me, that the RX-8 is ballsy, fast or a significantly great car, especially considering that engine
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Crimmy Sun


Well someone forgot to tell that to Hyundai when they introduced it
Cause they seem to think they made a sporty hatchback to fill the gaps in their lineup

And no, my friend has one that I drove around a lot every time i ever did anything to it
they handle nicely, and everything about the car is nice, the only thing that's letting that car down is the terrible engine
We clearly must have different standards of what power is, cause the RX-8 doesn't have any on tap until it's singing in third gear. And my god is the thing just annoying. I dunno if Mazda was high or if I'm just jaded, but it seemed like the fuel economy on that tiny a** engine was s**t for it's size, rotary or not, it was terrible. as well as it needing apex seals on 2 different occasions since I've known the guy. In addition to that, next to no one confidently really wants to touch rotaries, makes things kind of a pain, cause i'm also one of them

personally I also like a stiffer ride, but that's just me, not really a critique on the car

But you can't honestly tell me, that the RX-8 is ballsy, fast or a significantly great car, especially considering that engine


We seem to have different standards between sports car or sporty cars. Sporty hatchbacks? Veloster, GTi Golf, etc. Sport cars? Corvette, Camaro, Skyline, etc. Theres a big difference between the two, atleast to me.

And I have no complaints about the RX-8 at all really, I do think it was a very good car. Do I think it'd rival Ferrari Enzos? Of course not. But it has sufficient power, great handling, and a lot of innovative ideas. Also, all rotaries have horrid gas mileage. Name a rotary that has good mileage, you wont be able to find one comparing it to a piston of equal diplacement.

RX-8 ballsy? Not really. But not all sports cars are made to be ballsy really... A Miata is definetely fun (I said FUN. Not fast. Though they can be fast if modified right), but not ballsy. Lotus Esprit? Not ballsy, definetely fun though. Those amongst other cars are non-ballsy respectable sports cars.

RX-8 fast? Sort of. My standard of fast isnt exactly needing to compete with a Pagani Zonda; but I definetely noticed that the RX-8 had a lot more pep to it and a lot more power than normal econo cars. I guess my relation of "fast" isnt so coordinated to track times, and moreso the the feeling you get while being in the car. So to me fun > fast.

RX-8 a great car? To me yes. Besides it's buzzy engine which got annoying sometimes at high RPMs (its a rotary. What can you do? Not much.), and the occasional reliability issue, I just loved the car through and through in more or less everyway.

Are there better cars? Yes. But I still like it. To each his own and I'll happily defend it.
Crimmy Sun's avatar

Lonely Millionaire

elemein
Crimmy Sun


Well someone forgot to tell that to Hyundai when they introduced it
Cause they seem to think they made a sporty hatchback to fill the gaps in their lineup

And no, my friend has one that I drove around a lot every time i ever did anything to it
they handle nicely, and everything about the car is nice, the only thing that's letting that car down is the terrible engine
We clearly must have different standards of what power is, cause the RX-8 doesn't have any on tap until it's singing in third gear. And my god is the thing just annoying. I dunno if Mazda was high or if I'm just jaded, but it seemed like the fuel economy on that tiny a** engine was s**t for it's size, rotary or not, it was terrible. as well as it needing apex seals on 2 different occasions since I've known the guy. In addition to that, next to no one confidently really wants to touch rotaries, makes things kind of a pain, cause i'm also one of them

personally I also like a stiffer ride, but that's just me, not really a critique on the car

But you can't honestly tell me, that the RX-8 is ballsy, fast or a significantly great car, especially considering that engine


We seem to have different standards between sports car or sporty cars. Sporty hatchbacks? Veloster, GTi Golf, etc. Sport cars? Corvette, Camaro, Skyline, etc. Theres a big difference between the two, atleast to me.

And I have no complaints about the RX-8 at all really, I do think it was a very good car. Do I think it'd rival Ferrari Enzos? Of course not. But it has sufficient power, great handling, and a lot of innovative ideas. Also, all rotaries have horrid gas mileage. Name a rotary that has good mileage, you wont be able to find one comparing it to a piston of equal diplacement.

RX-8 ballsy? Not really. But not all sports cars are made to be ballsy really... A Miata is definetely fun (I said FUN. Not fast. Though they can be fast if modified right), but not ballsy. Lotus Esprit? Not ballsy, definetely fun though. Those amongst other cars are non-ballsy respectable sports cars.

RX-8 fast? Sort of. My standard of fast isnt exactly needing to compete with a Pagani Zonda; but I definetely noticed that the RX-8 had a lot more pep to it and a lot more power than normal econo cars. I guess my relation of "fast" isnt so coordinated to track times, and moreso the the feeling you get while being in the car. So to me fun > fast.

RX-8 a great car? To me yes. Besides it's buzzy engine which got annoying sometimes at high RPMs (its a rotary. What can you do? Not much.), and the occasional reliability issue, I just loved the car through and through in more or less everyway.

Are there better cars? Yes. But I still like it. To each his own and I'll happily defend it.


I'm confused by the first part, cause that's what I said

But I in no way was comparing the RX-8 to a supercar
and the Supercharged Miata's are ballsy

I'll say I've possibly been jaded by boost, but can you really say it feels like 240hp (I think that's what it was rated at at least, not sure). that's an S2000 number
And I can tell you for a fact that the S2000 definitely delivers the power significantly better than the RX8

Dun get me wrong, I love the RX8 to death, but I really think it's being let down by it's engine
Mazda really should have mildly boosted it, it just can't deliver what an S2000 or even the Boxter did
Which is likely the reason for it's poor sales
Mazda has always been great with their power delivery systems, but the whole Renesis thing, was just disappointing
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Crimmy Sun
I'm confused by the first part, cause that's what I said

But I in no way was comparing the RX-8 to a supercar
and the Supercharged Miata's are ballsy

I'll say I've possibly been jaded by boost, but can you really say it feels like 240hp (I think that's what it was rated at at least, not sure). that's an S2000 number
And I can tell you for a fact that the S2000 definitely delivers the power significantly better than the RX8

Dun get me wrong, I love the RX8 to death, but I really think it's being let down by it's engine
Mazda really should have mildly boosted it, it just can't deliver what an S2000 or even the Boxter did
Which is likely the reason for it's poor sales
Mazda has always been great with their power delivery systems, but the whole Renesis thing, was just disappointing


Oh okay I get it. I just differentiate sports car and spoty hatchback as my trademark sporty hatchback is a GTi... Not exactly a sports car xD

Anyway, I do think it feels like 240 HP, but I think you think the S2000 is faster partially because it is. It's around 200-300 lbs lighter, has a stiffer suspension, and dont quote me on this next point, but I think the S2000 has a better weight distribution. I dont know, I have a special soft spot for the RX-8 as it has a "different" engine. One thing that leads me away from the Evo and to the STi (yes I know we fight about this.) is that the STi has a boxer engine. I'm a sucker for uniqueness. (That, and I feel the Miata is a superior roadster to the S2000, so when someone mentions roadster I think Miata first. Mostly because a Miata weighs nothing, costs nothing, takes the skill of nothing to repair and modify and costs nothing to modify..) Also, just incase you're still angry at me about the EVO X STi debate, I finally put the Evo and STi on an even level in my books. I disliked the grotesque looks of the Evo VIII, but they grew on me eventually.

Also, yes, turbo/supercharged Miata's are indeed ballsy cool
Crimmy Sun's avatar

Lonely Millionaire

elemein
Crimmy Sun
I'm confused by the first part, cause that's what I said

But I in no way was comparing the RX-8 to a supercar
and the Supercharged Miata's are ballsy

I'll say I've possibly been jaded by boost, but can you really say it feels like 240hp (I think that's what it was rated at at least, not sure). that's an S2000 number
And I can tell you for a fact that the S2000 definitely delivers the power significantly better than the RX8

Dun get me wrong, I love the RX8 to death, but I really think it's being let down by it's engine
Mazda really should have mildly boosted it, it just can't deliver what an S2000 or even the Boxter did
Which is likely the reason for it's poor sales
Mazda has always been great with their power delivery systems, but the whole Renesis thing, was just disappointing


Oh okay I get it. I just differentiate sports car and spoty hatchback as my trademark sporty hatchback is a GTi... Not exactly a sports car xD

Anyway, I do think it feels like 240 HP, but I think you think the S2000 is faster partially because it is. It's around 200-300 lbs lighter, has a stiffer suspension, and dont quote me on this next point, but I think the S2000 has a better weight distribution. I dont know, I have a special soft spot for the RX-8 as it has a "different" engine. One thing that leads me away from the Evo and to the STi (yes I know we fight about this.) is that the STi has a boxer engine. I'm a sucker for uniqueness. (That, and I feel the Miata is a superior roadster to the S2000, so when someone mentions roadster I think Miata first. Mostly because a Miata weighs nothing, costs nothing, takes the skill of nothing to repair and modify and costs nothing to modify..) Also, just incase you're still angry at me about the EVO X STi debate, I finally put the Evo and STi on an even level in my books. I disliked the grotesque looks of the Evo VIII, but they grew on me eventually.

Also, yes, turbo/supercharged Miata's are indeed ballsy cool


They damn well better be on equal grounds, cause I'll go all day on that!

and the 200-300lb difference is made up for with a passenger, the S2000 really just feels faster. and I'm pretty sure the S2000 is a 50/50, no clue what the RX-8 is, but I'd imagine its prolly a 43/57 or something of the likes

It's also possible the power on the Rotary is just delivered in a way I'm not used to

btw, Isn't this nice? so civil
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Crimmy Sun
They damn well better be on equal grounds, cause I'll go all day on that!

and the 200-300lb difference is made up for with a passenger, the S2000 really just feels faster. and I'm pretty sure the S2000 is a 50/50, no clue what the RX-8 is, but I'd imagine its prolly a 43/57 or something of the likes

It's also possible the power on the Rotary is just delivered in a way I'm not used to

btw, Isn't this nice? so civil


Yes Crimmy, the Evo and the STi are now equal in my books; heck, I've actually been thinking of lowering the STi because of it's boxer engine. It used to be something I really loved (and still do!!), but then I heard stories of modifying it or just doing general maintenance... I guess once you flipped the cylinders 90 degrees an oil change becomes an adventure... I really dont know what to say about em though; they're equal for now.

You could be right about the way power is delivered. We all know petrol engines feel way different than diesels. Even V8's feel different than V6's, and VR6's feel even different from that, and boxers feel different from four-cylinders... Hell, every cylinder configuration deals its power in minuet differences, but I guess once you make a huge difference (like.. banishing spark plugs in diesel or changing pistons to rotors in rotaries), the power just feels different in whole lots of ways. I guess the benefit is that rotaries can go up to 10,000 RPM easily whilst the S2000 engine cant go near that without huge mounds of work thrown at it.

And maybe the S2000 transmission is geared more for acceleration than in the RX-8? I dont know what to say really, I felt like the RX-8 had nice power, and 240 hp is 240 hp... Dyno's dont lie.

And nay! Civil discussions are horrid! I must make arrogant and irrelevant remarks! By my troth, I heard thy mother hadst become rather obese; so much so that when she goes to the theatre to watch a play, she sits by everyone! Har-dee har!
Crimmy Sun's avatar

Lonely Millionaire

elemein
Crimmy Sun
They damn well better be on equal grounds, cause I'll go all day on that!

and the 200-300lb difference is made up for with a passenger, the S2000 really just feels faster. and I'm pretty sure the S2000 is a 50/50, no clue what the RX-8 is, but I'd imagine its prolly a 43/57 or something of the likes

It's also possible the power on the Rotary is just delivered in a way I'm not used to

btw, Isn't this nice? so civil


Yes Crimmy, the Evo and the STi are now equal in my books; heck, I've actually been thinking of lowering the STi because of it's boxer engine. It used to be something I really loved (and still do!!), but then I heard stories of modifying it or just doing general maintenance... I guess once you flipped the cylinders 90 degrees an oil change becomes an adventure... I really dont know what to say about em though; they're equal for now.

You could be right about the way power is delivered. We all know petrol engines feel way different than diesels. Even V8's feel different than V6's, and VR6's feel even different from that, and boxers feel different from four-cylinders... Hell, every cylinder configuration deals its power in minuet differences, but I guess once you make a huge difference (like.. banishing spark plugs in diesel or changing pistons to rotors in rotaries), the power just feels different in whole lots of ways. I guess the benefit is that rotaries can go up to 10,000 RPM easily whilst the S2000 engine cant go near that without huge mounds of work thrown at it.

And maybe the S2000 transmission is geared more for acceleration than in the RX-8? I dont know what to say really, I felt like the RX-8 had nice power, and 240 hp is 240 hp... Dyno's dont lie.

And nay! Civil discussions are horrid! I must make arrogant and irrelevant remarks! By my troth, I heard thy mother hadst become rather obese; so much so that when she goes to the theatre to watch a play, she sits by everyone! Har-dee har!


Dun forget about the fact that a boxer engine works against itself, crankshafts on those things lose balance religiously

and dynos do lie!
depends on if it's brand, dynojet and mustangs tend to always disagree

And you rap-scallion you, you speak ill of my most recent forebearer?! Well I say, your life-partner, she indeed fancies me, and I shall partake, eh-hoo-hoo-hoo
elemein's avatar

Enduring Friend

Crimmy Sun

Dun forget about the fact that a boxer engine works against itself, crankshafts on those things lose balance religiously

and dynos do lie!
depends on if it's brand, dynojet and mustangs tend to always disagree

And you rap-scallion you, you speak ill of my most recent forebearer?! Well I say, your life-partner, she indeed fancies me, and I shall partake, eh-hoo-hoo-hoo


It works opposing to itself; they're vibrational values are nulified by the opposing piston fires o.e Lose balance? Menothinkso.

Well dynos are the best we got to really determine horsepower (unless you wanna get down to pen and paper and get all scientific and mathematical about it... but then thats no fun.), so if 240 HP is 240 HP; let it be. Either way, comparing a RX-8 and a S2000 is a little apple to oranges... (Not totally, but a little. It might be better to compare the RX-8 to something else rotary... Like another RX-8? I guess rotaries just dont come in many flavours dramallama )

Dear marlin! Do thy bite your thumb at me?! Such disrespectful gestures guided towards my facade of reality! Out with thee; do thy want to disengage in duel of tongue and engage in poniard negotiation?!
Crimmy won't be happy to hear this. But, as far as aesthetics go, I'm going with the Subarus.

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