Performance Manifolds and sparkplugs

[Nightmare277]

Okay, so it's the short story. Got a 2012 Civic. What type of manifolds and spark plugs should I look for as far as performance?

Also, as a side thing, is it difficult for one person to replace the two part bumper to this vehicle? Since I gotta buy a new bumper I might as well get a custom one, yes?

[Brother Kam]

What state are you in? What's your budget? What kind of gains do you expect to get out of the modifications? Daily driver or otherwise? As far as the spark plugs you're just wasting your money on anything other than what the driver's manual suggests. You wont see gains from plugs unless you're running a high horsepower build and the standard NGK's aren't cutting it, however the NGK's are fine UNTIL you reach that 300-500 HP mark. If you plan on doing an aftermarket intake manifold you're going to see minimal gains per dollar spent unless you open up the rest of the system e.g. intake, exhaust, header with a decent size collector like 2.5 in to a high flow cat or test pipe to 2.5 in exhaust. To maximize your bolt on's it's a good idea to invest in a tune, either a new ECU like Hondata or a piggy back / cheap chipped ECU like people do the chipped P28 on OBD1 swaps which is fairly cost efficient.


Bumper isn't too hard, there are how to's on youtube. Just be careful not to break any of the plastic clips. When in doubt, zip tie out.


Also, please tell me it's an SI. If it isn't you're wasting your time on that 1.7l. K20/24 or gtfo. I can't recall if the 2012 models all came with watered down K20's or if they were still pushing the D17/18.


Finally, if you don't live in a gay a** state like California and smog isn't an issue, just build a turbo kit yourself. That is by far the best horsepower per dollar investment you can make. I'm not sure on the K's but on most of the Honda engines I have experience with, you can push 7-10 PSI on a conservative tune and do just fine as far as longevity is concerned.


So say you're looking at ~2-4k for a turbo and you'll be looking at 250-350 HP on a stock block with Hondata or a chipped ECU, for the same amount of money invested into N/A modifications for any Honda engine you might be looking at 200 HP unless you're already running a K24 or a K20head/24 block Frankenstein.

[Nightmare277]

So 300hp is max that a k24 can push? Yeah I got an SI. I already added an intake and I do plan on getting a better exhaust later. Cams? I am unfamiliar with those however I want to get a new manifold and exhaust before I buy a sway bar. Or some other upgrade to help cornering.

[Brother Kam]

As I said, if you want to just get a little bit more push out of your K you can do intake, exhaust and headers. If the header you get doesn't have an O2 bung have one welded in or your car wont run right. If you want to go balls deep you can do intake manifold and throttle body but at that point I would definitely consider a mild tune at least because you'd be pushing the limits of how much the stock ECU can adapt.

Stick with standard NGK's until you start doing something crazy because they can handle a lot of power before the singles become obsolete.

I still say go for a mild boost build, for the same amount of money as all of the bolt-on's mentioned above you could be pushing a lot more power at say 7-10 PSI. I'm not sure what the safe PSI limits on a stock K are, I know it's more than the older motors but I don't want to give you any info I'm not positive about. Honda-Tech + research + pieced together turbo kit = mooonnnneeeey nikka.

Edit: And no, 300 is not the limit for a K all motor but to get much above, I dunno 250 ish (which would be with a ******** immaculate tune and pushing the stock internals to their max, MAYBE), you'd need to do internals and push higher compression pistons, dual valve springs (or at least aftermaket ones, I'm not sure if K's come with duals and what their limits are though they probably do have them), a port and polish on the head, cams rods etc. If you just want to do cams, pistons, rods, and valves and valve springs you can but if you're already investing that much time and money you might as well do a P&P, have the crank polished and blueprinted, etc. With going all motor there's a little you can do or a lot you can do so it's really a matter of how much cash you want to throw at it.

No matter what route you go, do a lot of research on brands and make sure you're getting good parts for your money. If it was a piece of s**t weekend car I'd do w/e on eBay but it doesn't sound like that.

Oh and if you're not already running synthetic, do it. The bit about it causing leaks after switching back from synth to dyno is all bullshit. Synth costs more initially but is better for your car in the long run and the cost evens out to be near dyno for the same overall cost unless you run royal purple.

NGK Standard Lazer Iridium Spark Plugs

Edit: You probably wont notice a difference from the sway bar unless you have other after market suspension parts e.g. relatively stiff coilovers, rear subframe brace with a decent size rear sway bar, and I'd get camber kits and toe kits just for good measure. Rear LCA's aren't necessary unless you want to be able to adjust the rear sway bar stiffness. I'd recommend the Functon 7 rear LCA and rear subframe brace because they're sexy as ********, American made, and have a lifetime warranty.

Edit: Actually you probably wont notice much of a difference at all from the sway bar at all but it does help with chassis stiffening. If you want to really stiffen that b***h up, get an eight point roll cage but then say bye bye to your interior.

Also this is all assuming you have a K20, the K24's have ~50 more HP potential give or take for all the above mentioned as a ROUGH ESTIMATE, I know it's not that black and white between the two but there's no replacement for displacement.

Nightmare277

And quote me if you want a faster reply holmes.

[Nightmare277]

Brother Kam

As I said, if you want to just get a little bit more push out of your K you can do intake, exhaust and headers. If the header you get doesn't have an O2 bung have one welded in or your car wont run right. If you want to go balls deep you can do intake manifold and throttle body but at that point I would definitely consider a mild tune at least because you'd be pushing the limits of how much the stock ECU can adapt.

Stick with standard NGK's until you start doing something crazy because they can handle a lot of power before the singles become obsolete.

I still say go for a mild boost build, for the same amount of money as all of the bolt-on's mentioned above you could be pushing a lot more power at say 7-10 PSI. I'm not sure what the safe PSI limits on a stock K are, I know it's more than the older motors but I don't want to give you any info I'm not positive about. Honda-Tech + research + pieced together turbo kit = mooonnnneeeey nikka.

Edit: And no, 300 is not the limit for a K all motor but to get much above, I dunno 250 ish (which would be with a ******** immaculate tune and pushing the stock internals to their max, MAYBE), you'd need to do internals and push higher compression pistons, dual valve springs (or at least aftermaket ones, I'm not sure if K's come with duals and what their limits are though they probably do have them), a port and polish on the head, cams rods etc. If you just want to do cams, pistons, rods, and valves and valve springs you can but if you're already investing that much time and money you might as well do a P&P, have the crank polished and blueprinted, etc. With going all motor there's a little you can do or a lot you can do so it's really a matter of how much cash you want to throw at it.

No matter what route you go, do a lot of research on brands and make sure you're getting good parts for your money. If it was a piece of s**t weekend car I'd do w/e on eBay but it doesn't sound like that.

Oh and if you're not already running synthetic, do it. The bit about it causing leaks after switching back from synth to dyno is all bullshit. Synth costs more initially but is better for your car in the long run and the cost evens out to be near dyno for the same overall cost unless you run royal purple.

NGK Standard Lazer Iridium Spark Plugs

Edit: You probably wont notice a difference from the sway bar unless you have other after market suspension parts e.g. relatively stiff coilovers, rear subframe brace with a decent size rear sway bar, and I'd get camber kits and toe kits just for good measure. Rear LCA's aren't necessary unless you want to be able to adjust the rear sway bar stiffness. I'd recommend the Functon 7 rear LCA and rear subframe brace because they're sexy as ********, American made, and have a lifetime warranty.

Edit: Actually you probably wont notice much of a difference at all from the sway bar at all but it does help with chassis stiffening. If you want to really stiffen that b***h up, get an eight point roll cage but then say bye bye to your interior.

Also this is all assuming you have a K20, the K24's have ~50 more HP potential give or take for all the above mentioned as a ROUGH ESTIMATE, I know it's not that black and white between the two but there's no replacement for displacement.

Nightmare277

And quote me if you want a faster reply holmes.

Yeah sorry, too lazy to use my computer. Yes I'm on the K24. I just bought a RCB OEM manifold. Throttle body make a difference? I am unsure. So with an AEM cold air intake and OEM RCB Manifold I should tune it?

[Brother Kam]

Nightmare277

Yeah sorry, too lazy to use my computer. Yes I'm on the K24. I just bought a RCB OEM manifold. Throttle body make a difference? I am unsure. So with an AEM cold air intake and OEM RCB Manifold I should tune it?

No, you shouldn't get a tune with just the intake and the exhaust manifold. You CAN but you would see minor improvements from it and if you ever add anything else you'd need to re tune it accordingly. If you're willing to spend the money I would ABSOLUTELY recommend the Hondata route. It's SO worth the money.

Really? I always thought the 12's came with K20, though I'm not sure which year they moved to the K24 so you're probably right. I mean it is your car.

The throttle body will really only make a difference if you're using a fly-by-wire type throttle body which I'm sure you are considering it's otherwise OEM AND/OR if you have a larger than stock diameter intake manifold (in most cases you have to bore out the hole going into the manifold from the intake. The hole is going to be say (just for example, I'm not sure what it actually is stock) 24mm diameter, if you get a 30mm throttle body then you should bore the intake hole on the manifold to 30mm to maximize the flow from the larger throttle body.) This is if say you're running aftermarket internals etc and a larger exhaust to maximize volume-metric efficiency.

An example would be a 40mm cold air going to a 40mm throttle body mated to an aftermarket intake manifold with the intake hole bored to 40mm, on the out side you'd have a hytech header with 2.5 or 3.0 inch collector going to 2.5 or 3.0 in exhaust (depending on what size your collector is) and either a 2.5 or 3.0 inch test pipe or high flow catalytic converter with a high flow muffler obviously being 3.0 inch intake side and whatever for the outgoing. I'd just go 3.0 inch unless it being quiet is more important to you than a few extra HP/torque.

The whole point is to obviously open up al of the flowing exhaust so that it can move easier, which in turn improves gas mileage, horsepower/torque (though sometimes too large of an exhaust setup for an otherwise stock motor may actually rob a small amount of torque in trade for higher end horsepower, though you'll probably just see gains no matter what), and of course noise (unless you do something like a hytech twin-loop exhaust.

Since you're running a K24 another viable option is supercharging which would have better yields than just bolt ons (though you would have to buy the bolt on's anyways) which would be more expensive than just the bolt on's but be the same rough price as the turbo route. The problem with superchargers is this: If you somehow find a roots-style blower then you have to deal with heat soak unless you install an after cooler, and with the turbine type you're basically just getting a watered down version of a turbo though I'm not saying it should be discounted.

Let me know if you have any questions about super chargers, turbos, or the N/A route. Also, how much was the RBC manifold? You never answered me when I asked what state you're in.

[Nightmare277]

Brother Kam

Nightmare277

Yeah sorry, too lazy to use my computer. Yes I'm on the K24. I just bought a RCB OEM manifold. Throttle body make a difference? I am unsure. So with an AEM cold air intake and OEM RCB Manifold I should tune it?

No, you shouldn't get a tune with just the intake and the exhaust manifold. You CAN but you would see minor improvements from it and if you ever add anything else you'd need to re tune it accordingly. If you're willing to spend the money I would ABSOLUTELY recommend the Hondata route. It's SO worth the money.

Really? I always thought the 12's came with K20, though I'm not sure which year they moved to the K24 so you're probably right. I mean it is your car.

The throttle body will really only make a difference if you're using a fly-by-wire type throttle body which I'm sure you are considering it's otherwise OEM AND/OR if you have a larger than stock diameter intake manifold (in most cases you have to bore out the hole going into the manifold from the intake. The hole is going to be say (just for example, I'm not sure what it actually is stock) 24mm diameter, if you get a 30mm throttle body then you should bore the intake hole on the manifold to 30mm to maximize the flow from the larger throttle body.) This is if say you're running aftermarket internals etc and a larger exhaust to maximize volume-metric efficiency.

An example would be a 40mm cold air going to a 40mm throttle body mated to an aftermarket intake manifold with the intake hole bored to 40mm, on the out side you'd have a hytech header with 2.5 or 3.0 inch collector going to 2.5 or 3.0 in exhaust (depending on what size your collector is) and either a 2.5 or 3.0 inch test pipe or high flow catalytic converter with a high flow muffler obviously being 3.0 inch intake side and whatever for the outgoing. I'd just go 3.0 inch unless it being quiet is more important to you than a few extra HP/torque.

The whole point is to obviously open up al of the flowing exhaust so that it can move easier, which in turn improves gas mileage, horsepower/torque (though sometimes too large of an exhaust setup for an otherwise stock motor may actually rob a small amount of torque in trade for higher end horsepower, though you'll probably just see gains no matter what), and of course noise (unless you do something like a hytech twin-loop exhaust.

Since you're running a K24 another viable option is supercharging which would have better yields than just bolt ons (though you would have to buy the bolt on's anyways) which would be more expensive than just the bolt on's but be the same rough price as the turbo route. The problem with superchargers is this: If you somehow find a roots-style blower then you have to deal with heat soak unless you install an after cooler, and with the turbine type you're basically just getting a watered down version of a turbo though I'm not saying it should be discounted.

Let me know if you have any questions about super chargers, turbos, or the N/A route. Also, how much was the RBC manifold? You never answered me when I asked what state you're in.

Army sucks...
Kentucky. Registered in Tennessee. Licensed in Arizona. XD
I paid $220 for the OEM RBC intake. My issue now is that I missed the annotation saying that I need to bore the manifold to match my stock injectors. Manifold small, injectors big. Someone posted on another forum about making this work by just buying bigger o-rings. I kinda like this so that when I DO buy bigger injectors, I can just throw out the o-rings and stock injectors for the higher performance ones.

[Brother Kam]

Nightmare277

Brother Kam

Nightmare277

Yeah sorry, too lazy to use my computer. Yes I'm on the K24. I just bought a RCB OEM manifold. Throttle body make a difference? I am unsure. So with an AEM cold air intake and OEM RCB Manifold I should tune it?

No, you shouldn't get a tune with just the intake and the exhaust manifold. You CAN but you would see minor improvements from it and if you ever add anything else you'd need to re tune it accordingly. If you're willing to spend the money I would ABSOLUTELY recommend the Hondata route. It's SO worth the money.

Really? I always thought the 12's came with K20, though I'm not sure which year they moved to the K24 so you're probably right. I mean it is your car.

The throttle body will really only make a difference if you're using a fly-by-wire type throttle body which I'm sure you are considering it's otherwise OEM AND/OR if you have a larger than stock diameter intake manifold (in most cases you have to bore out the hole going into the manifold from the intake. The hole is going to be say (just for example, I'm not sure what it actually is stock) 24mm diameter, if you get a 30mm throttle body then you should bore the intake hole on the manifold to 30mm to maximize the flow from the larger throttle body.) This is if say you're running aftermarket internals etc and a larger exhaust to maximize volume-metric efficiency.

An example would be a 40mm cold air going to a 40mm throttle body mated to an aftermarket intake manifold with the intake hole bored to 40mm, on the out side you'd have a hytech header with 2.5 or 3.0 inch collector going to 2.5 or 3.0 in exhaust (depending on what size your collector is) and either a 2.5 or 3.0 inch test pipe or high flow catalytic converter with a high flow muffler obviously being 3.0 inch intake side and whatever for the outgoing. I'd just go 3.0 inch unless it being quiet is more important to you than a few extra HP/torque.

The whole point is to obviously open up al of the flowing exhaust so that it can move easier, which in turn improves gas mileage, horsepower/torque (though sometimes too large of an exhaust setup for an otherwise stock motor may actually rob a small amount of torque in trade for higher end horsepower, though you'll probably just see gains no matter what), and of course noise (unless you do something like a hytech twin-loop exhaust.

Since you're running a K24 another viable option is supercharging which would have better yields than just bolt ons (though you would have to buy the bolt on's anyways) which would be more expensive than just the bolt on's but be the same rough price as the turbo route. The problem with superchargers is this: If you somehow find a roots-style blower then you have to deal with heat soak unless you install an after cooler, and with the turbine type you're basically just getting a watered down version of a turbo though I'm not saying it should be discounted.

Let me know if you have any questions about super chargers, turbos, or the N/A route. Also, how much was the RBC manifold? You never answered me when I asked what state you're in.

Army sucks...
Kentucky. Registered in Tennessee. Licensed in Arizona. XD
I paid $220 for the OEM RBC intake. My issue now is that I missed the annotation saying that I need to bore the manifold to match my stock injectors. Manifold small, injectors big. Someone posted on another forum about making this work by just buying bigger o-rings. I kinda like this so that when I DO buy bigger injectors, I can just throw out the o-rings and stock injectors for the higher performance ones.

'

I'd check Honda-Tech man, seriously. Just use the search function and see what people do to get around that, I'm sure it's an easy fix. Also, why are you putting in big a** injectors?

[Nightmare277]

Brother Kam

Nightmare277

Brother Kam

Nightmare277

Yeah sorry, too lazy to use my computer. Yes I'm on the K24. I just bought a RCB OEM manifold. Throttle body make a difference? I am unsure. So with an AEM cold air intake and OEM RCB Manifold I should tune it?

No, you shouldn't get a tune with just the intake and the exhaust manifold. You CAN but you would see minor improvements from it and if you ever add anything else you'd need to re tune it accordingly. If you're willing to spend the money I would ABSOLUTELY recommend the Hondata route. It's SO worth the money.

Really? I always thought the 12's came with K20, though I'm not sure which year they moved to the K24 so you're probably right. I mean it is your car.

The throttle body will really only make a difference if you're using a fly-by-wire type throttle body which I'm sure you are considering it's otherwise OEM AND/OR if you have a larger than stock diameter intake manifold (in most cases you have to bore out the hole going into the manifold from the intake. The hole is going to be say (just for example, I'm not sure what it actually is stock) 24mm diameter, if you get a 30mm throttle body then you should bore the intake hole on the manifold to 30mm to maximize the flow from the larger throttle body.) This is if say you're running aftermarket internals etc and a larger exhaust to maximize volume-metric efficiency.

An example would be a 40mm cold air going to a 40mm throttle body mated to an aftermarket intake manifold with the intake hole bored to 40mm, on the out side you'd have a hytech header with 2.5 or 3.0 inch collector going to 2.5 or 3.0 in exhaust (depending on what size your collector is) and either a 2.5 or 3.0 inch test pipe or high flow catalytic converter with a high flow muffler obviously being 3.0 inch intake side and whatever for the outgoing. I'd just go 3.0 inch unless it being quiet is more important to you than a few extra HP/torque.

The whole point is to obviously open up al of the flowing exhaust so that it can move easier, which in turn improves gas mileage, horsepower/torque (though sometimes too large of an exhaust setup for an otherwise stock motor may actually rob a small amount of torque in trade for higher end horsepower, though you'll probably just see gains no matter what), and of course noise (unless you do something like a hytech twin-loop exhaust.

Since you're running a K24 another viable option is supercharging which would have better yields than just bolt ons (though you would have to buy the bolt on's anyways) which would be more expensive than just the bolt on's but be the same rough price as the turbo route. The problem with superchargers is this: If you somehow find a roots-style blower then you have to deal with heat soak unless you install an after cooler, and with the turbine type you're basically just getting a watered down version of a turbo though I'm not saying it should be discounted.

Let me know if you have any questions about super chargers, turbos, or the N/A route. Also, how much was the RBC manifold? You never answered me when I asked what state you're in.

Army sucks...
Kentucky. Registered in Tennessee. Licensed in Arizona. XD
I paid $220 for the OEM RBC intake. My issue now is that I missed the annotation saying that I need to bore the manifold to match my stock injectors. Manifold small, injectors big. Someone posted on another forum about making this work by just buying bigger o-rings. I kinda like this so that when I DO buy bigger injectors, I can just throw out the o-rings and stock injectors for the higher performance ones.

'

I'd check Honda-Tech man, seriously. Just use the search function and see what people do to get around that, I'm sure it's an easy fix. Also, why are you putting in big a** injectors?

Apparently stock ones are bigger than aftermarket. :s